Biggest Issue When You Started A School

[dvcochran]

While there certainly are people who look for that, then all that means is that the martial arts school is attracting them through their marketing. I feel that the main issue would have to be that, because the business model has been stagnant for the last six decades for most styles, schools, and instructors, a revitalization is necessary from the ground up. And sometimes, the best ideas come from outside the industry, especially when the industry's practices have been rendered obsolete by technological progress as well as a high demand for technical expertise in areas beyond martial arts instruction and fundamental business practices.

EDIT: While demand is low for now, I think it's because a lot of martial arts schools market the exact same way, which: 1. limits their reach, 2. reaches non-ideal clientele, and 3. becomes a negative feedback loop for the school which either forces the school to become a McDojo or rolls them out of business.

You are saying a lot without a lot of relevant content. What exactly do you mean by " especially when the industry's practices have been rendered obsolete by technological progress as well as a high demand for technical expertise in areas beyond martial arts instruction and fundamental business practices."?

 

[martialartsnerd]

Dealing with people who knew absolutely everything.

Hmm, could you perhaps clarify what you mean by that?

 

[martialartsnerd]

You are saying a lot without a lot of relevant content. What exactly do you mean by " especially when the industry's practices have been rendered obsolete by technological progress as well as a high demand for technical expertise in areas beyond martial arts instruction and fundamental business practices."?

Good question. What I meant is that the online landscape requires technical expertise that either the instructor has to have obtained from it being their day job or something that the instructor can't really get proficient at without sacrificing proficiency in some area (take, for example, SEO and online marketing by way of Adwords... if the instructor can afford that). If the instructor decides to become a one-man show on the business side of things, they'll need to be able to do supremely well on SEO (which is constantly shifting with the algorithms), have web-development skills that won't make their site supremely amateurish, run a system that can keep track of their leads, sales, and revenue, and be their own tech support. While getting help from in-house is an option, that may not always be the BEST option, it just happens to be the best AVAILABLE option.

Modern technology, as well as an ever-changing consumer base that deserves to be better-informed, are demanding a different business model altogether since martial arts is too niche to go with a traditional mass-market model that presents martial arts as a mere commodity. Certain other options exist for advertisement (YouTube PPC comes to mind, which is solid, since video and martial arts would be a better fit than simple text and even pictures, plus it's based on click-through and time-watched rate). The internet can be a harsh mistress, but people who can master the internet can extend their reach, though a martial arts instructor may not have the means to master that, their martial art, AND the business side of martial arts simultaneously. As harsh as it is, instructors need experts for the digital landscape rather than trying to do it all themselves. There's simply way too many hats for them to wear.

EDIT: Other martial arts instructors that have gone this route are hard to find (at least, in the way I envision it), but Wihongi is, in my eyes, a solid example of the kind of martial artist that went the "celebrity authority" route. People outside of the combatives crowd and the Filipino martial arts community aren't gonna be familiar with Wihongi's work, but within his niche for Pekiti-Tirsia Kali, he's thrown in there with the same respect as people give to Inosanto or Marcaida.

 

[dvcochran]

Good question. What I meant is that the online landscape requires technical expertise that either the instructor has to have obtained from it being their day job or something that the instructor can't really get proficient at without sacrificing proficiency in some area (take, for example, SEO and online marketing by way of Adwords... if the instructor can afford that). If the instructor decides to become a one-man show on the business side of things, they'll need to be able to do supremely well on SEO (which is constantly shifting with the algorithms), have web-development skills that won't make their site supremely amateurish, run a system that can keep track of their leads, sales, and revenue, and be their own tech support. While getting help from in-house is an option, that may not always be the BEST option, it just happens to be the best AVAILABLE option.

Modern technology, as well as an ever-changing consumer base that deserves to be better-informed, are demanding a different business model altogether since martial arts is too niche to go with a traditional mass-market model that presents martial arts as a mere commodity. Certain other options exist for advertisement (YouTube PPC comes to mind, which is solid, since video and martial arts would be a better fit than simple text and even pictures, plus it's based on click-through and time-watched rate). The internet can be a harsh mistress, but people who can master the internet can extend their reach, though a martial arts instructor may not have the means to master that, their martial art, AND the business side of martial arts simultaneously. As harsh as it is, instructors need experts for the digital landscape rather than trying to do it all themselves. There's simply way too many hats for them to wear.

EDIT: Other martial arts instructors that have gone this route are hard to find (at least, in the way I envision it), but Wihongi is, in my eyes, a solid example of the kind of martial artist that went the "celebrity authority" route. People outside of the combatives crowd and the Filipino martial arts community aren't gonna be familiar with Wihongi's work, but within his niche for Pekiti-Tirsia Kali, he's thrown in there with the same respect as people give to Inosanto or Marcaida.

I agree that SEO has a learning curve but most all webhost/website development companies do a good job with it if you learn the tools which are technically novice to intermediate at best. I do not see PPC coming into play at all except for possibly some crude analytics. Customer/case management software is a must for any client based business. Many couple basic accounting and tracking tools as well. I have seen some very good free platforms. If a person is conversant with Microsoft Office they can do a pretty good job albeit the setup time is considerable. I agree that tech support is a reality for most everyone at some point.
Do not agree with or never heard MA called a commodity. It just is not. It is a premium service it I had to categorize it.

 

[JR 137]

All of this stuff got me thinking about my former teacher...

He was most successful, numbers-wise, when his dojo was in transition and he was renting space in a gym. He had a dedicated room with some storage that wasn’t used for anything else. Yes, he got some students from the gym itself, but the bulk of the new students at that time weren’t gym members. And they weren’t kids. They were adults who wanted to learn karate.

His marketing didn’t really change. The only change was his ads said he was in ABC Sports & Fitness. Students were allowed a 30 day free membership to the gym (not advertised), and gym members were allowed a free 30 day karate trial (also not advertised).

I think his influx of adult students came from the facilities available. We had full use of the lockers, showers, and sauna. Most dojos have a small closet-like changing room; nothing like a full-scale gym typically has.

A while back when I was in between stints in karate I was looking into LA Boxing (before it turned into UFC Gym). The main reason why I didn’t join, other than the astronomical price was they didn’t have an adequate locker room and no showers. I didn’t want to drive 45 minutes home nor to work all sweaty and disgusting. I was about 90% sure I was going to join, even knowing the price, until I realized the shower and changing situation. That completely killed it.

Maybe upgrading facilities would attract more adult students? Maybe prospective students are getting turned off by dojos that may look nice but don’t have anything beyond the training space itself? Upgrading facilities doesn’t change anything about actual instruction, diminish what’s going on on the floor, etc. Perhaps also adding modern training equipment like heavy bags would help too. And god forbid, adding stuff like cardio kickboxing, yoga, pilates, etc. during non-MA hours. Again, having that stuff doesn’t change anything; in fact it could make the place seem more grown up and serious for adults rather than the stereotypical little ninjas running around dojo.

Back to my former teacher to put things into perspective...
He was leasing a great space and everything was going well. The building owner’s business expanded (my teacher was renting a portion of a building) and he needed the extra room. He gave my teacher adequate notice and really worked with him to help him out. My teacher had a few places in mind that were coming on the market, so he took the gym space as a temporary fix. He did so well there that he planned on staying permanently. The problem was the gym owner didn’t know the gym manager was renting the space out. The manager was pocketing the money. When the owner caught on, he had the manager arrested. The owner wanted my teacher to stay and offered to reduce his rent for the inconvenience of it all, but my teacher just wanted a clean break after everything that went down. He moved into a bigger space with better visibility, but he ended up regretting it because his growth pretty much stopped. As students left, he couldn’t replace them as easily. Throughout all the moves, his instruction didn’t change one bit (in a good way). Odd thing was his children’s enrollment declined at the gym, but his adult membership grew substantially.

Just some food for thought. Sure, this is only one example and could very well be the exception rather than the rule. And upgrading facilities is SO MUCH easier said than done. But if you’re looking to attract an adult base, I think there’s a lot to say for having adult facilities.

Offer more adult stuff, and perhaps more adults will take you seriously? I don’t know, I’m just throwing that out there.

Edit: by “adult facilities” and “adult stuff” I don’t mean adult as in “adult movies” Although maybe that’s a way to go with it too

 

[martialartsnerd]

I agree that SEO has a learning curve but most all webhost/website development companies do a good job with it if you learn the tools which are technically novice to intermediate at best. I do not see PPC coming into play at all except for possibly some crude analytics. Customer/case management software is a must for any client based business. Many couple basic accounting and tracking tools as well. I have seen some very good free platforms. If a person is conversant with Microsoft Office they can do a pretty good job albeit the setup time is considerable. I agree that tech support is a reality for most everyone at some point.
Do not agree with or never heard MA called a commodity. It just is not. It is a premium service it I had to categorize it.

While I agree that MA isn't a commodity and that it very much IS a premium service, there are plenty of people outside the MA community that prioritize it so lowly that it gets treated as such. Commoditization, where people treat MA as a commodity (even without explicitly calling it a commodity), is the result of several things, but an ill-defined pricing strategy seems to be a PART of the case, since people who pay, pay attention. One example of this is when my girlfriend signed up for Choy Li Fut and her mother paid an upfront annual of 2500. Suffice it to say, that hole in her mother's wallet, combined with her dropping other extracurriculars to attend martial arts, drove her to attend every day of the week. Besides this, low prices tend to attract the cheap and the uncommitted by the dozen, with the occasional diamond in the rough.

And while you're right about other webhost/web development companies making things easier to the uninitiated, it still requires a learning curve and if the instructor has to budget out their time between the ins and outs of the internet, the business, AND the martial arts, it's not gonna be pretty. As for the point of PPC, you're right in that it doesn't come into play... in a traditional business model. Again, check Pekiti University for what I consider a solid example of a modernized martial arts business. If a martial arts instructor is to gain the kind of leverage that they need to grow their business so that they're not worrying about keeping afloat, though, outsourcing anything besides their specialties is a must. For an example of this, I'd like to point out Davenriche European Martial Artes School. While Steaphen Fick does use a traditional martial arts business model, the takeaway from his outsourcing any duties outside of his specialty allowed him to grow Davenriche to something fairly successful for himself. The age of the one-man army has never existed, simply because it's unsustainable for growth when the instructor has little, if any, breathing room.

 

[martialartsnerd]

All of this stuff got me thinking about my former teacher...

He was most successful, numbers-wise, when his dojo was in transition and he was renting space in a gym. He had a dedicated room with some storage that wasn’t used for anything else. Yes, he got some students from the gym itself, but the bulk of the new students at that time weren’t gym members. And they weren’t kids. They were adults who wanted to learn karate.

His marketing didn’t really change. The only change was his ads said he was in ABC Sports & Fitness. Students were allowed a 30 day free membership to the gym (not advertised), and gym members were allowed a free 30 day karate trial (also not advertised).

I think his influx of adult students came from the facilities available. We had full use of the lockers, showers, and sauna. Most dojos have a small closet-like changing room; nothing like a full-scale gym typically has.

A while back when I was in between stints in karate I was looking into LA Boxing (before it turned into UFC Gym). The main reason why I didn’t join, other than the astronomical price was they didn’t have an adequate locker room and no showers. I didn’t want to drive 45 minutes home nor to work all sweaty and disgusting. I was about 90% sure I was going to join, even knowing the price, until I realized the shower and changing situation. That completely killed it.

Maybe upgrading facilities would attract more adult students? Maybe prospective students are getting turned off by dojos that may look nice but don’t have anything beyond the training space itself? Upgrading facilities doesn’t change anything about actual instruction, diminish what’s going on on the floor, etc. Perhaps also adding modern training equipment like heavy bags would help too. And god forbid, adding stuff like cardio kickboxing, yoga, pilates, etc. during non-MA hours. Again, having that stuff doesn’t change anything; in fact it could make the place seem more grown up and serious for adults rather than the stereotypical little ninjas running around dojo.

Back to my former teacher to put things into perspective...
He was leasing a great space and everything was going well. The building owner’s business expanded (my teacher was renting a portion of a building) and he needed the extra room. He gave my teacher adequate notice and really worked with him to help him out. My teacher had a few places in mind that were coming on the market, so he took the gym space as a temporary fix. He did so well there that he planned on staying permanently. The problem was the gym owner didn’t know the gym manager was renting the space out. The manager was pocketing the money. When the owner caught on, he had the manager arrested. The owner wanted my teacher to stay and offered to reduce his rent for the inconvenience of it all, but my teacher just wanted a clean break after everything that went down. He moved into a bigger space with better visibility, but he ended up regretting it because his growth pretty much stopped. As students left, he couldn’t replace them as easily. Throughout all the moves, his instruction didn’t change one bit (in a good way). Odd thing was his children’s enrollment declined at the gym, but his adult membership grew substantially.

Just some food for thought. Sure, this is only one example and could very well be the exception rather than the rule. And upgrading facilities is SO MUCH easier said than done. But if you’re looking to attract an adult base, I think there’s a lot to say for having adult facilities.

Offer more adult stuff, and perhaps more adults will take you seriously? I don’t know, I’m just throwing that out there.

Edit: by “adult facilities” and “adult stuff” I don’t mean adult as in “adult movies” Although maybe that’s a way to go with it too

Facilities can be a part of it, and I agree on the note of the showers at least, but one of the main reasons I feel like the business model needs an overhaul is simply because of scalability as well. There have been many attempts to expand the impact of a martial arts style in the past, through the use of video learning, but most of the time, this was done by the charlatans of the martial arts world (like Chris Pizzo, whose self-defense training is questionable at best). With recent times, even my Balintawak teacher's trying to take things to a more digital front for business reasons (namely low overhead) as well as the amount of reach and convenience the internet provides. And another thing to note is that my Balintawak teacher's in his garage days phase.

As for adult stuff, while I agree on putting in good, modern training equipment (unless if you're going for the very traditional methods in JMA and CMA, like the makiwara), I really don't think it's necessary to add too many bells and whistles. Showers and a locker room for sure, since a training hall IS a gym, but other than the requisite training equipment, I'd rather apply the KISS principle. You raise a good point on the amenities that a number of places don't have, though. I don't ever remember a shower being available back when I trained in aikijujutsu.

 

[evan.fedora]

Hmm, could you perhaps clarify what you mean by that?

I want to learn, how much..? this is what I meant. Any person looking to learn something real should ask more than just the price, isn't it?

 

[pdg]

I want to learn, how much..? this is what I meant. Any person looking to learn something real should ask more than just the price, isn't it?

That's a valid first question though.

If I was looking for instruction, it'd be my first question - if it's beyond my budget there's no point asking anything further.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

All of this stuff got me thinking about my former teacher...

He was most successful, numbers-wise, when his dojo was in transition and he was renting space in a gym. He had a dedicated room with some storage that wasn’t used for anything else. Yes, he got some students from the gym itself, but the bulk of the new students at that time weren’t gym members. And they weren’t kids. They were adults who wanted to learn karate.

His marketing didn’t really change. The only change was his ads said he was in ABC Sports & Fitness. Students were allowed a 30 day free membership to the gym (not advertised), and gym members were allowed a free 30 day karate trial (also not advertised).

I think his influx of adult students came from the facilities available. We had full use of the lockers, showers, and sauna. Most dojos have a small closet-like changing room; nothing like a full-scale gym typically has.

A while back when I was in between stints in karate I was looking into LA Boxing (before it turned into UFC Gym). The main reason why I didn’t join, other than the astronomical price was they didn’t have an adequate locker room and no showers. I didn’t want to drive 45 minutes home nor to work all sweaty and disgusting. I was about 90% sure I was going to join, even knowing the price, until I realized the shower and changing situation. That completely killed it.

Maybe upgrading facilities would attract more adult students? Maybe prospective students are getting turned off by dojos that may look nice but don’t have anything beyond the training space itself? Upgrading facilities doesn’t change anything about actual instruction, diminish what’s going on on the floor, etc. Perhaps also adding modern training equipment like heavy bags would help too. And god forbid, adding stuff like cardio kickboxing, yoga, pilates, etc. during non-MA hours. Again, having that stuff doesn’t change anything; in fact it could make the place seem more grown up and serious for adults rather than the stereotypical little ninjas running around dojo.

Back to my former teacher to put things into perspective...
He was leasing a great space and everything was going well. The building owner’s business expanded (my teacher was renting a portion of a building) and he needed the extra room. He gave my teacher adequate notice and really worked with him to help him out. My teacher had a few places in mind that were coming on the market, so he took the gym space as a temporary fix. He did so well there that he planned on staying permanently. The problem was the gym owner didn’t know the gym manager was renting the space out. The manager was pocketing the money. When the owner caught on, he had the manager arrested. The owner wanted my teacher to stay and offered to reduce his rent for the inconvenience of it all, but my teacher just wanted a clean break after everything that went down. He moved into a bigger space with better visibility, but he ended up regretting it because his growth pretty much stopped. As students left, he couldn’t replace them as easily. Throughout all the moves, his instruction didn’t change one bit (in a good way). Odd thing was his children’s enrollment declined at the gym, but his adult membership grew substantially.

Just some food for thought. Sure, this is only one example and could very well be the exception rather than the rule. And upgrading facilities is SO MUCH easier said than done. But if you’re looking to attract an adult base, I think there’s a lot to say for having adult facilities.

Offer more adult stuff, and perhaps more adults will take you seriously? I don’t know, I’m just throwing that out there.

Edit: by “adult facilities” and “adult stuff” I don’t mean adult as in “adult movies” Although maybe that’s a way to go with it too

Every time I think about what I'd want in a space if I had my own, showers and lockers are part of it. In a private space, lockers could even be assigned, so folks can leave sparring gear and stuff that doesn't need cleaning. It's something I notice quickly about schools, too.

I also wonder if being within another space doesn't make visiting less intimidating. Walking into a multi-purpose fitness facility is something more students are already familiar with, so they don't feel awkward coming in the door. I doubt most people would consciously avoid entering a traditional dojo for that reason, but our subconscious ("system 1" thinking) is pretty good at making us do wonky **** we'd never do purposely. I've even thought it might be easier to get MA students if a school also offered some fitness classes (say, kettlebell strength or tabata or whatever is a good fit for students).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I want to learn, how much..? this is what I meant. Any person looking to learn something real should ask more than just the price, isn't it?

Maybe. If they know what other questions to ask at that point. Most don't, aside from the schedule. So, they ask the only questions they know: when are classes, and what does it cost. If I walk in, I probably have other questions, but they might be answered best by just watching class a while, so even I might not have much else to ask besides those two questions.

 

[dvcochran]

While I agree that MA isn't a commodity and that it very much IS a premium service, there are plenty of people outside the MA community that prioritize it so lowly that it gets treated as such. Commoditization, where people treat MA as a commodity (even without explicitly calling it a commodity), is the result of several things, but an ill-defined pricing strategy seems to be a PART of the case, since people who pay, pay attention. One example of this is when my girlfriend signed up for Choy Li Fut and her mother paid an upfront annual of 2500. Suffice it to say, that hole in her mother's wallet, combined with her dropping other extracurriculars to attend martial arts, drove her to attend every day of the week. Besides this, low prices tend to attract the cheap and the uncommitted by the dozen, with the occasional diamond in the rough.

And while you're right about other webhost/web development companies making things easier to the uninitiated, it still requires a learning curve and if the instructor has to budget out their time between the ins and outs of the internet, the business, AND the martial arts, it's not gonna be pretty. As for the point of PPC, you're right in that it doesn't come into play... in a traditional business model. Again, check Pekiti University for what I consider a solid example of a modernized martial arts business. If a martial arts instructor is to gain the kind of leverage that they need to grow their business so that they're not worrying about keeping afloat, though, outsourcing anything besides their specialties is a must. For an example of this, I'd like to point out Davenriche European Martial Artes School. While Steaphen Fick does use a traditional martial arts business model, the takeaway from his outsourcing any duties outside of his specialty allowed him to grow Davenriche to something fairly successful for himself. The age of the one-man army has never existed, simply because it's unsustainable for growth when the instructor has little, if any, breathing room.

In you "model", what do you consider the tipping point where a single instructor is forced to recruit the outside elements you speak of? Is it a number of students, number of schools etc...?

 

[dvcochran]

Every time I think about what I'd want in a space if I had my own, showers and lockers are part of it. In a private space, lockers could even be assigned, so folks can leave sparring gear and stuff that doesn't need cleaning. It's something I notice quickly about schools, too.

I also wonder if being within another space doesn't make visiting less intimidating. Walking into a multi-purpose fitness facility is something more students are already familiar with, so they don't feel awkward coming in the door. I doubt most people would consciously avoid entering a traditional dojo for that reason, but our subconscious ("system 1" thinking) is pretty good at making us do wonky **** we'd never do purposely. I've even thought it might be easier to get MA students if a school also offered some fitness classes (say, kettlebell strength or tabata or whatever is a good fit for students).

At one point, I had three Dojangs in three adjoining counties. I suppose part of my thinking back then (1990's) was from my college sports days. I never considered NOT having partitioned dressing rooms and showers, and separate bathrooms.

A new and very large gym opened up in my hometown and asked me if I would have classes there. I set it up as a "feeder" for our Dojangs. Adults (14 and up) only and no uniforms at the gym. We taught none of the traditional lineage matter and did not spar (gym rules) so it was more of a formal exercise class. We talked a lot about what we did at our Dojangs and that spurred a lot of questions. We had a lot of people migrate to the Dojangs.
I am disconnected now, do you feel group exercises like aerobics back in the 80's and 90's are as popular now as they were then?

 

[JR 137]

While I agree that MA isn't a commodity and that it very much IS a premium service, there are plenty of people outside the MA community that prioritize it so lowly that it gets treated as such. Commoditization, where people treat MA as a commodity (even without explicitly calling it a commodity), is the result of several things, but an ill-defined pricing strategy seems to be a PART of the case, since people who pay, pay attention. One example of this is when my girlfriend signed up for Choy Li Fut and her mother paid an upfront annual of 2500. Suffice it to say, that hole in her mother's wallet, combined with her dropping other extracurriculars to attend martial arts, drove her to attend every day of the week. Besides this, low prices tend to attract the cheap and the uncommitted by the dozen, with the occasional diamond in the rough.

And while you're right about other webhost/web development companies making things easier to the uninitiated, it still requires a learning curve and if the instructor has to budget out their time between the ins and outs of the internet, the business, AND the martial arts, it's not gonna be pretty. As for the point of PPC, you're right in that it doesn't come into play... in a traditional business model. Again, check Pekiti University for what I consider a solid example of a modernized martial arts business. If a martial arts instructor is to gain the kind of leverage that they need to grow their business so that they're not worrying about keeping afloat, though, outsourcing anything besides their specialties is a must. For an example of this, I'd like to point out Davenriche European Martial Artes School. While Steaphen Fick does use a traditional martial arts business model, the takeaway from his outsourcing any duties outside of his specialty allowed him to grow Davenriche to something fairly successful for himself. The age of the one-man army has never existed, simply because it's unsustainable for growth when the instructor has little, if any, breathing room.

While what you say about cheap price attracting not serious students makes sense on paper, that’s definitely not the case where I train.

The dojo I attend charges $55/month for adults and $45 for kids. No contracts, no hidden fees. We pay a $25 annual fee to our organization, and colored belt tests average about $50. Black belt testing is done by our founder at his dojo. That gets quite expensive (compared to our costs), but his dojo is a few doors down from the Flatiron Building in Manhattan, so we’ve got to keep the cost of him doing business realistic.

$125-$150/month and a 1 year contract are the norm for commercial dojos in my area, and non-commercial dojos typically run about $85-$100 without contracts.

We’re a small school run by a husband and wife team who both had very good day jobs and retired from them within the last 2-3 years. The dojo was never their career aspiration nor full time employment goal; it was simply a way to continue training after their direct teacher and the other local teacher in our organization had a falling out and both left our organization. Had those guys not left, they would’ve most likely enjoyed remaining as assistant instructors there.

The main point is we don’t get a bunch of bargain hunters looking for rock-bottom prices. In the 3.5 years I’ve been there, we haven’t had any clowns show up. We’ve got a solid core of dedicated adults. We’re very adult black belt-long term student heavy. We’ve got our share of kids, and they typically last a while too.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

In you "model", what do you consider the tipping point where a single instructor is forced to recruit the outside elements you speak of? Is it a number of students, number of schools etc...?

I don't think there's a single point for that. For full-time instructors who already have some knowledge, they can get by quite a bit longer than a part-time instructor who doesn't have any tech background. The same goes for business background, bookkeeping knowledge, marketing knowledge, etc.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

At one point, I had three Dojangs in three adjoining counties. I suppose part of my thinking back then (1990's) was from my college sports days. I never considered NOT having partitioned dressing rooms and showers, and separate bathrooms.

A new and very large gym opened up in my hometown and asked me if I would have classes there. I set it up as a "feeder" for our Dojangs. Adults (14 and up) only and no uniforms at the gym. We taught none of the traditional lineage matter and did not spar (gym rules) so it was more of a formal exercise class. We talked a lot about what we did at our Dojangs and that spurred a lot of questions. We had a lot of people migrate to the Dojangs.
I am disconnected now, do you feel group exercises like aerobics back in the 80's and 90's are as popular now as they were then?

Group exercises dominate the side exercise spaces at a lot of YMCA's and such (to the extent that I can't get class space in many). In the Y's in our area, you can find tabata (HIIT based), zoomba (dance-based), step aerobics, P90X, POUND (aerobics while beating the air and floor with heavy drum sticks), yoga, and some others I don't know what they are called. I think a something like a group interval-based kettlebell class would be workable, though difficult for new students, so maybe well suited to a MA school environment.

I think, much like a MA class, people like the community of it. There's pretty much always someone slower, weaker, more flexible, prettier, clumsier, fatter, more muscular, etc. than you in every class. So we all get to feel "normal" within those groups. Most folks, once they get used to a given instructor and group, want to keep coming to that same class. If you change instructors, some folks will leave with them (either to follow them, or just because it doesn't have the same attraction it had).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

While what you say about cheap price attracting not serious students makes sense on paper, that’s definitely not the case where I train.

The dojo I attend charges $55/month for adults and $45 for kids. No contracts, no hidden fees. We pay a $25 annual fee to our organization, and colored belt tests average about $50. Black belt testing is done by our founder at his dojo. That gets quite expensive (compared to our costs), but his dojo is a few doors down from the Flatiron Building in Manhattan, so we’ve got to keep the cost of him doing business realistic.

$125-$150/month and a 1 year contract are the norm for commercial dojos in my area, and non-commercial dojos typically run about $85-$100 without contracts.

We’re a small school run by a husband and wife team who both had very good day jobs and retired from them within the last 2-3 years. The dojo was never their career aspiration nor full time employment goal; it was simply a way to continue training after their direct teacher and the other local teacher in our organization had a falling out and both left our organization. Had those guys not left, they would’ve most likely enjoyed remaining as assistant instructors there.

The main point is we don’t get a bunch of bargain hunters looking for rock-bottom prices. In the 3.5 years I’ve been there, we haven’t had any clowns show up. We’ve got a solid core of dedicated adults. We’re very adult black belt-long term student heavy. We’ve got our share of kids, and they typically last a while too.

Agreed. Unless you somehow market yourself as a "low price leader", people aren't attracted primarily by price. And there's a difference between MA (it's an activity) compared to other business ventures, so I don't think price really determines audience quite the same way.

 

[martialartsnerd]

That's a valid first question though.

If I was looking for instruction, it'd be my first question - if it's beyond my budget there's no point asking anything further.

Indeed. It's like I said, there's always a professional component to martial arts instruction, and it's best to get money out of the way immediately so that both parties can focus exclusively on the training.

 

[martialartsnerd]

In you "model", what do you consider the tipping point where a single instructor is forced to recruit the outside elements you speak of? Is it a number of students, number of schools etc...?

The tipping point is sooner than the suggested. The tipping point is ASAP. Only through outsourcing and delegation can a martial arts instructor even have the room to grow their school. Recruiting the outside elements doesn't have to be a permanent position at all, and can, in fact, be on a short-term contract as needed. But being able to get that outside help instead of soloing everything is a necessity for expansion.

 

[martialartsnerd]

Agreed. Unless you somehow market yourself as a "low price leader", people aren't attracted primarily by price. And there's a difference between MA (it's an activity) compared to other business ventures, so I don't think price really determines audience quite the same way.

Hmm, that's fair. What does attract people to the martial arts besides price? In my case, it was all about the combat skills before it became something deeper, and for others, the initial draw lies in the community. For some others, it can be health benefits, and for yet more people, it could be the competitive aspect. What else draws people to our world?