Biggest Issue When You Started A School

[JR 137]

I've been thinking more...

Decetralisation may well work for professional coaches, but they're in an entirely different situation.

The team hires them and pays them - the athlete does what they're told. It's not the athlete's place to deal with the financial aspect - that's why the coach doesn't discuss it with them.


Marketing:

The standard advice given on here when a person asks about which school or art is to visit every one and pick the one you gel with best.

Marketing has no place in that over and above making your presence known.

There's a school near me (part of a large chain) that has 'good' marketing, glossy photos in magazines, testimonials from happy parents - but it's a crap school. They have no shortage of paying students which may be good from a business perspective, but from an art perspective?

I firmly believe their continuing success is purely marketing and very loose celebrity association.

Why is that school so “great”? Because everything the read and saw told them so. I don’t know how many times I’ve been told the McDojo a few blocks from the (academic) school I teach at is the best. Why’s it the best? Someone told them so. Who’s that someone? I’d have a hard time believing it wasn’t the school itself.

Marketing. Plain and simple.

What’s the best sounding stereo? Bose. Why? They told you so. Ask anyone who knows anything about stereos beyond seeing a few Bose infomercials, and you’ll get plenty of laughs asking about Bose. “Better sound through research” should be changed to “Better perceived sound through marketing.”

Why do people think Tag Heuer watches are so great? Marketing. To watch guys, they make a few legitimately good watches, and the rest are overmarketed and overpriced watches no better than mass marketed watches costing significantly less.

If you’re not telling people you’re the best, who is? Marketing 101 IMO. Most people don’t have the time nor desire to figure out who’s the best teacher/school for them. They want to be told. If a parent is looking to send their kids to an MA school, where do they typically end up going? The local McDojo who advertises the most and tells parents they’re the best.

The people who come to places like here and ask about MA school options are truly the exception, not the rule.

 

[wanderingstudent]

My issue has been just finding people, with an interest.

I even reached out to some people, from an old school. Their school was closing, I saw it as an opportunity. My aggravation with the situation is that not one person connected the dots. I am not some tool, I used to train at your school; after 5 years I had nothing to show for it. And the thing is, they have an awesome FB page. For all appearances, they are pretty legit. In reality, they are all Paper Tigers.

 

[pdg]

Why is that school so “great”? Because everything the read and saw told them so. I don’t know how many times I’ve been told the McDojo a few blocks from the (academic) school I teach at is the best. Why’s it the best? Someone told them so. Who’s that someone? I’d have a hard time believing it wasn’t the school itself.

Marketing. Plain and simple.

What’s the best sounding stereo? Bose. Why? They told you so. Ask anyone who knows anything about stereos beyond seeing a few Bose infomercials, and you’ll get plenty of laughs asking about Bose. “Better sound through research” should be changed to “Better perceived sound through marketing.”

Why do people think Tag Heuer watches are so great? Marketing. To watch guys, they make a few legitimately good watches, and the rest are overmarketed and overpriced watches no better than mass marketed watches costing significantly less.

If you’re not telling people you’re the best, who is? Marketing 101 IMO. Most people don’t have the time nor desire to figure out who’s the best teacher/school for them. They want to be told. If a parent is looking to send their kids to an MA school, where do they typically end up going? The local McDojo who advertises the most and tells parents they’re the best.

The people who come to places like here and ask about MA school options are truly the exception, not the rule.

Bold added by me...

If I'm following the thread correctly, the type of students allegedly targeted by this new marketing idea (as in another thread too) are the ones that are serious about learning.

In other words, exactly the type to come here and ask. Exactly the type not to be swayed by pretty marketing.

Erm, exactly the type that might actually be put off by an over marketed school? Exactly the type to visit, observe, assess and compare and put more stock in that than in Jennifer the parent saying how great the school is for her darling Tarquin?

Or maybe like me, the type who knows how much marketing costs and wonders precisely how much of the fees are going into adverts rather than better kit and instructors?




That said, apparently students who don't mind paying extra to have real lessons are wanted too - so maybe fluff and flash are more suitable for the type of school who wants intensive marketing?




(I'm aware I may be merging threads here, I'm lost with all this...)

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I've been thinking more...

Decetralisation may well work for professional coaches, but they're in an entirely different situation.

The team hires them and pays them - the athlete does what they're told. It's not the athlete's place to deal with the financial aspect - that's why the coach doesn't discuss it with them.


Marketing:

The standard advice given on here when a person asks about which school or art is to visit every one and pick the one you gel with best.

Marketing has no place in that over and above making your presence known.

There's a school near me (part of a large chain) that has 'good' marketing, glossy photos in magazines, testimonials from happy parents - but it's a crap school. They have no shortage of paying students which may be good from a business perspective, but from an art perspective?

I firmly believe their continuing success is purely marketing and very loose celebrity association.

If it works for the crap schools, why not extend that success to the better programs? Realistically, many people will join the first school they go to that seems kind of "right" - whatever that means to them. Effective marketing would bring more of those to any given program.

Truly good marketing should actually help with the process of finding a "fit". Advice often given to (life/management/business/whatever) coaches is to tailor their marketing so it speaks to their ideal audience. The idea is to help the right people figure out it's probably a good fit right off the bat, and help folks who wouldn't find what they need figure it out more quickly (saving them and the coach some time). If marketing helps accomplish that, people are more likely to walk into a school that's a "fit" for them.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Bold added by me...

If I'm following the thread correctly, the type of students allegedly targeted by this new marketing idea (as in another thread too) are the ones that are serious about learning.

In other words, exactly the type to come here and ask. Exactly the type not to be swayed by pretty marketing.

Erm, exactly the type that might actually be put off by an over marketed school? Exactly the type to visit, observe, assess and compare and put more stock in that than in Jennifer the parent saying how great the school is for her darling Tarquin?

Or maybe like me, the type who knows how much marketing costs and wonders precisely how much of the fees are going into adverts rather than better kit and instructors?




That said, apparently students who don't mind paying extra to have real lessons are wanted too - so maybe fluff and flash are more suitable for the type of school who wants intensive marketing?




(I'm aware I may be merging threads here, I'm lost with all this...)

I don't know that there's a connection between the serious, long-term, dedicated student and who asks on here. Of course, when I selected my first school (the first was selected for me, and the second was happenstance when a family friend started teaching again), I didn't try to find knowledgeable people and ask their opinion (though I did know a few). I saw a demo I liked, and went to the school. I trained there continuously (through two changes of chief instructor) for more than 20 years. I think some people naturally research more (either out of caution or because they are personally thorough) and others just go try it out and see what happens. Good students will come from both camps. And both will, in fact, be affected by marketing. Even when we are aware of marketing's aim, it still tends to influence us.

 

[martialartsnerd]

That's an interesting turn of phrase; I don't think I've ever heard it before.

It's something I picked up as I read Blue Ocean Strategy. A red ocean means that the industry's become competitive and that everyone competes on conventional points, such as pricing, quality, etc. A blue ocean is unlocked by finding a certain value that unlocks its own market from the crowd. One potential for unlocking a blue ocean is almost always personal brand, because that can't be copied. Not easily, anyway. And I feel that this is ESPECIALLY the case in the martial arts.

 

[martialartsnerd]

I've been thinking more...

Decetralisation may well work for professional coaches, but they're in an entirely different situation.

The team hires them and pays them - the athlete does what they're told. It's not the athlete's place to deal with the financial aspect - that's why the coach doesn't discuss it with them.


Marketing:

The standard advice given on here when a person asks about which school or art is to visit every one and pick the one you gel with best.

Marketing has no place in that over and above making your presence known.

There's a school near me (part of a large chain) that has 'good' marketing, glossy photos in magazines, testimonials from happy parents - but it's a crap school. They have no shortage of paying students which may be good from a business perspective, but from an art perspective?

I firmly believe their continuing success is purely marketing and very loose celebrity association.

That's EXACTLY the problem I'm out to solve. They're the schools I wanna declare war on and just go scorched-earth until they have no choice but to back down.

 

[martialartsnerd]

If it works for the crap schools, why not extend that success to the better programs? Realistically, many people will join the first school they go to that seems kind of "right" - whatever that means to them. Effective marketing would bring more of those to any given program.

Truly good marketing should actually help with the process of finding a "fit". Advice often given to (life/management/business/whatever) coaches is to tailor their marketing so it speaks to their ideal audience. The idea is to help the right people figure out it's probably a good fit right off the bat, and help folks who wouldn't find what they need figure it out more quickly (saving them and the coach some time). If marketing helps accomplish that, people are more likely to walk into a school that's a "fit" for them.

Exactly.

 

[CoachRonald]

As I said before, in professional sports that's the rule. The coach doesn't need worry about brands or marketing strategies.
I think it's very unplesable to think about a profitable image that could improve the 'sells'. The public that seek a famous brands generally is that type of person that doesn't matter with the quality of training and want in fact to take some photos to put on Instagram. I witnessed it as student and coach and by this reason I prefer to be honest with the student at the very begnining saying him that I don't sell goods or services. I just offer the possibility of being part of my team and follow the way of practionners that seek knowldge, not the consume of good.

 

[pdg]

As I said before, in professional sports that's the rule. The coach doesn't need worry about brands or marketing strategies

So how does the coach get a job?

If he's employed exclusively by one team, then yeah fine, he's just a staffer - essentially just the same as the athlete or the janitor.

If he's freelance, then if he doesn't do any form of marketing or financial management he won't be getting any work or money at all.

If he's coaching for a team member then he deals with the team - if he's something like a tennis coach I'd bet my last biscuit he talks payment with his clients.

The latter (freelance) is like a lot of (most?) MA instructors - they are effectively freelancing out their services to their students.

If they don't market at all they have no students - if they don't deal with money they don't get paid.

To blanket all of them that don't have a financial secretary and marketing team on the the books as poor teachers is discounting an awful lot of people...



(Of course, I'm assuming here that you're not only counting stuff like baseball and padded rugby as "professional sports")

 

[pdg]

And another thing...

So in this MA environment where the student (athlete) and the instructor (coach) don't have any discussion about finances in case it distracts from the ultimate goal:

Who pays my tuition and who takes it?

It's not like "I have people to deal with that sort of thing", and I know my instructor doesn't either.

So?

 

[pdg]

That's EXACTLY the problem I'm out to solve. They're the schools I wanna declare war on and just go scorched-earth until they have no choice but to back down.

Good luck...

Those sort of places (larger chains) are run by millionaires with no fear of court action.

How exactly do you plan to wage this war?

 

[martialartsnerd]

Good luck...

Those sort of places (larger chains) are run by millionaires with no fear of court action.

How exactly do you plan to wage this war?

If I can't go directly, then I'll have to go indirectly. It's why I aim to market for the legitimate schools to the point that the legitimate schools have better marketing than the McDojos. I'm not gonna market to the uninformed soccer mom crowd, that just isn't happening, so the McDojos can have that, I don't really care. What I care about is taking the martial arts schools that deserve better to the online space and making sure their outreach through YouTube and other social media is on point.

If the uninformed want in, they'll have to start off with the very tip of the spear of an education-based marketing campaign rather than the shiny objects that McDojos like to offer.

 

[pdg]

I'm not gonna market to the uninformed soccer mom crowd, that just isn't happening, so the McDojos can have that, I don't really care

So you're also wiping out the biggest market, the one that allows many schools to actually keep the doors open?

And those kids, what about the percentage of those that become lifelong practitioners? Not interested in those either?

I see a huge potential for you to get a reputation quite quickly - the question is do you want to be known as the financially elitist self proclaimed god's gift to MA?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

So you're also wiping out the biggest market, the one that allows many schools to actually keep the doors open?

And those kids, what about the percentage of those that become lifelong practitioners? Not interested in those either?

I see a huge potential for you to get a reputation quite quickly - the question is do you want to be known as the financially elitist self proclaimed god's gift to MA?

This is a good point. For schools that want to teach kids, "soccer moms" aren't a bad demographic to reach. I think if we go back to his earlier points, though, he was talking about wanting to help instructors get more adult students. At that point, the soccer mom isn't an important demographic.

 

[pdg]

This is a good point. For schools that want to teach kids, "soccer moms" aren't a bad demographic to reach. I think if we go back to his earlier points, though, he was talking about wanting to help instructors get more adult students. At that point, the soccer mom isn't an important demographic.

Well, if that's the case:

That's EXACTLY the problem I'm out to solve. They're the schools I wanna declare war on and just go scorched-earth until they have no choice but to back down.

has no place whatsoever in the thought process and smacks of a personal vendetta.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Well, if that's the case:




has no place whatsoever in the thought process and smacks of a personal vendetta.

Passionate, perhaps - even over-passionate. But nothing terribly objectionable in it.

 

[Michele123]

Word of mouth is still the best advertising IMO. My daughter is on the autism spectrum. Her Taekwondo instructor has been amazing for her. I told another family from church who has a child very similar to my daughter. They now drive 30 minutes to come to our school, passing over several others, because of our instructor gift in working with ASD kids.

This might go toward the OPs point about marketing the instructor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Word of mouth is still the best advertising IMO. My daughter is on the autism spectrum. Her Taekwondo instructor has been amazing for her. I told another family from church who has a child very similar to my daughter. They now drive 30 minutes to come to our school, passing over several others, because of our instructor gift in working with ASD kids.

This might go toward the OPs point about marketing the instructor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree that word-of-mouth is the most potent marketing (in any industry, almost universally).The problem with word-of-mouth is that it doesn't work well until you reach a certain size (for schools) or level of recognition. It's hard to get much coverage from your first 3 students.

 

[martialartsnerd]

If I can't go directly, then I'll have to go indirectly. It's why I aim to market for the legitimate schools to the point that the legitimate schools have better marketing than the McDojos. I'm not gonna market to the uninformed soccer mom crowd, that just isn't happening, so the McDojos can have that, I don't really care. What I care about is taking the martial arts schools that deserve better to the online space and making sure their outreach through YouTube and other social media is on point.

So you're also wiping out the biggest market, the one that allows many schools to actually keep the doors open?

And those kids, what about the percentage of those that become lifelong practitioners? Not interested in those either?

I see a huge potential for you to get a reputation quite quickly - the question is do you want to be known as the financially elitist self proclaimed god's gift to MA?

If that's the reputation I acquire in the process, so be it. Bring on the haters, I knew I'd be making enemies at some point or another. My aim is to help martial arts schools inform their ideal clientele BEFORE any leads step into the doors of a school. If that clientele happens to be soccer moms and those soccer moms learn about martial arts (rather than learning martial arts), then that'd be nice. If that clientele ISN'T, again, I can still sleep soundly and focus on the few rather than the many. I see no reason for an instructor to have to spend additional time explaining what their martial arts is and what it's all about when a good marketing campaign can do that for them without additional personal effort.

As for the percentage of kids who become lifelong practitioners, that percentage is LOW and the way schools have to obtain and RETAIN those lifelong practitioners involves so much time, effort, and money that it can easily dance on the point of diminishing returns. Which, again, is why I aim to create an effective funnel-marketing campaign that sends the ones that won't pepper the instructor with the questions that only the most uninformed would ask, because that bullcrap is TIRING. And if there's anything martial arts instructors shouldn't have to expend valuable time and energy on, it's informing the uninformed that step through their doors. With the marketing campaign that I have in mind, that should limit these occurrences.

Again, whatever reputation I get in the process, so long as I make the right enemies and the right allies, I'm marching forward. That's more important to me than simply playing the good guy to everyone.