Being in shape

[hkfuie]

You don't have to be in shape to compete in TKD??? Now, I really do not agree with you on that one. Depends on who you are competing aganist...

Goes back to who you are defending yourself against. Same thing.

But then the question is...do you have to be physically fit to train in martial arts?

I, personally, would welcome anyone to train with me who wants to learn and is someone I can trust, or someone who can grow into someone I can trust, or someone who can fool me into trusting them, I guess.



I don't think I need to exclude anyone. I think martial arts training has been great for my personal development and I think it could have a positive influence on anyone who is willing to learn and grow.

You don't have to be fit to learn martial arts. You don't have to be fit to learn techniques.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Does this really matter in the Martial Arts, I mean I have seen some pretty heavey and out of shape dudes that could kick the living **** out of someone. So how much truth is in it.

Being in shape matters. But one can go overboard. We all know jump spinning heal kicks are uses, uh, very very rarely. We also know a fast simple punch or kick, if timed right, will flatten a guy more often than not.

While I've seen a few 'gravity challenged' people do well, I've see far far more of them not do so well.

Reasonable fitness is a must. Super muscled like Van Damne looked in Blood Sport, while not necessary, sure looked good and just might stop a fight from even starting!

Deaf

 

[KenpoTex]

I think strength and conditioning are far more important than most are willing to admit. I also think (and this is probably going to get me in trouble) that many people study the martial-arts because they have been sucked into the mindset that "this doesn't require much strength to be effective," or "with technique or system XYZ you'll be able to neutralize your opponent's size/strength advantage.

Yes, training can trump some level of size/strength disparity, but if the attacker has a significant size/strength advantage and even a little skill, you're in big trouble.

I guess it really depends on what you're training for...it your goal to be the most effective fighter that you can be, or are you just doing it as a hobby or to play tag in the ring?

just my $0.02

 

[Makalakumu]

With many martial arts, there can be some downtime, where you are doing some sitting and learning while technique is described. IMO, you shouldn't get to a point where you never break a sweat. When I teach class, I make sure that my students are getting rocked. We don't do calisthetics, we do TSD and it IS a good workout.

That said, physical fitness is very important, IMO. So important, in fact, that I think there should be fitness requirement for martial arts. I see nothing wrong with making it a testing requirement. In fact, I've even experienced a situation at a boxing club where I wasn't allowed to even get through the door without proving that I could run 3 miles in 25 minutes.

I'm not saying that you can't be gravitationally challenged and still do martial arts. What I'm saying is that for some martial arts, for how I teach, you need to have a good level of physical fitness or it just won't work out.

 

[Drac]

Does this really matter in the Martial Arts, I mean I have seen some pretty heavey and out of shape dudes that could kick the living **** out of someone. So how much truth is in it.

I think it does't mean squat..When I attended the state sponsered school to obtain my instructors permit, I was the oldest and heaviest officer there..The few snickers I heard vanished when I managed to drop some of the younger and better in shape attendees during the first 2 days...

 

[takadadojokeith]

Does this really matter in the Martial Arts, I mean I have seen some pretty heavey and out of shape dudes that could kick the living **** out of someone. So how much truth is in it.

I think former UFC champ Pat Miletich summed it up best. "I'd rather fight a great fighter in bad shape than a bad fighter in great shape".

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

As I said before above being in shape is definitely to your favor. So because it is something we can control we should strive to be in simply great shape. That in turn does not mean that someone who is not in good shape cannot defend themselves. Be really careful going down that road or you might meet someone in terrible shape but has the ability to open up a can of your know what. I have a long time student coming over today who lives out of state. I would not classify him as being in great shape at the moment. However, he is a man mountain and people who would over look that would do so at their own peril.:erg:

Still being in shape is a huge advantage so I would always strive to be in the best possible shape that I could be!!!

 

[Makalakumu]

Also, sometimes the whole definition of "in-shape" relative. For example, out here in Hawaii, a lot of the hugest meanest guys look like they are massive slabs of fat. However, I meet these guys every morning beating the pavement and working on cardio. A lot of these guys take martial arts too. I've met them in the studios. For example, the guy that runs the local BJJ club is 6'3" and about 280. He's a black belt under Relson Gracie and he's got the classic Hawaiian "round" look. Kimo will kick your *** though. No ifs ands or butts about it...and he is not "shredded" like so many of us expect people who are "in-shape" to be.

 

[hkfuie]

Well, I am a sumo fan, so I believe what Maunakumu is saying.

But the question was, do you have to be in shape to train in martial arts?

I don't think you can do martial arts and not improve your fitness level.

But, for me, I am not motivated to stay in shape for self-defense. Yes, I want to be able to defend myself. And I like to hit hard, play hard, get physical...

But I am motivated to stay fit because I want to live well. I may never, ever be attacked, but I KNOW the rules that apply to the physical world apply to me: if I don't keep myself fit, I will have a less wonderful quality of life than if I stay fit. This is the immediacy I need to do the work I do everyday. As I get older (and 40 is coming up...) I hate to give in easily to the idea that there are things I cannot do because of my age.

This is MY motivation. Maybe some people think it SHOULD be self-defense that motivates me, but what matters is not what SHOULD be, it is what IS that I have to work with.

So, I do things that are FUN to keep myself fit. I love training martial arts, I love skating, I love geocaching. Fitness is no chore. If I were motivated by the idea of someday maybe something bad will happen to me that I could prevent by doing pushups...fitness is a chore.

Even though I use martial arts to have fun, it does not mean that street worthy skill is less important to me. It's just not what gets my a$$ off the couch.

Just my 2 cents and I hope Terry doesn't feel his thread has been hijacked! Whew! I have rambled on a long time...What was the question?

 

[SA_BJJ]

For example, the guy that runs the local BJJ club is 6'3" and about 280. He's a black belt under Relson Gracie and he's got the classic Hawaiian "round" look. Kimo will kick your *** though. No ifs ands or butts about it...and he is not "shredded" like so many of us expect people who are "in-shape" to be.

And he can get his *** kicked just as quick...Have his fat *** run 5 miles then come back and start rolling...

 

[Makalakumu]

And he can get his *** kicked just as quick...Have his fat *** run 5 miles then come back and start rolling...

Heh. I don't think I'll "have" him do anything. Maybe you should take a trip to Hawaii and visit the Team Kaneohe BJJ club. You can tell him he's a fat ***. Make sure to let me know when you're coming!

LOL - I sense an epic fail.

 

[Tez3]

Heh. I don't think I'll "have" him do anything. Maybe you should take a trip to Hawaii and visit the Team Kaneohe BJJ club. You can tell him he's a fat ***. Make sure to let me know when you're coming!

LOL - I sense an epic fail.

Nice one!!

I know MMA fighters who don't look the part but have stamina and fitness and they win in the cage, one I know also can fight out of the cage....and be the winner.
I've seen men who are ripped to hell and have little fitness or stamina....steroids.
Talking of Polynesian physiques we have a lot of Fijian soldiers here and they are built like the guy maunakumu described, they play rugby and can tab (yomp if you're a Royal Marine Commando) with the best of them.
so to paraphrase SQ-BJJ, try walking and running 80 miles in three days carying huge weights on your back, then engaging an enemy in a prolonged firefight......then roll lol! trust me these guys can and so can the much smaller Gurkhas.

 

[Sukerkin]

It is true that the 'ripped' look so beloved of the cinema and the glossies is actually not necessarily a sign of good health or even general fitness.

Cast your minds back a few years now to the World's Strongest Man competition. There was a ripped-to-the-nines Icelandic man-mountain who really really looked the part. Then there was a rather portly, most un-ripped, Lincolnshire coalman and ex-copper by the name of Geoff Capes. Guess who won?

The classic 'warrior' icon is very seldom what the real warriors look like. There is nothing wrong with trying to be fit and look good; it would be foolish to argue otherwise. However, it is best to be sure that the motivation for such 'sculpting' is one not indicative of some problems or failings within.

 

[Archangel M]

Nice one!!

I know MMA fighters who don't look the part but have stamina and fitness and they win in the cage, one I know also can fight out of the cage....and be the winner.
I've seen men who are ripped to hell and have little fitness or stamina....steroids.
Talking of Polynesian physiques we have a lot of Fijian soldiers here and they are built like the guy maunakumu described, they play rugby and can tab (yomp if you're a Royal Marine Commando) with the best of them.
so to paraphrase SQ-BJJ, try walking and running 80 miles in three days carying huge weights on your back, then engaging an enemy in a prolonged firefight......then roll lol! trust me these guys can and so can the much smaller Gurkhas.

Yeah, but were talking about "being in shape", not "looking in shape". Im wagering those MMA fighters who "dont look the part" DO spend a good ammount of time on physical conditioning.

 

[Tez3]

Yeah, but were talking about "being in shape", not "looking in shape". Im wagering those MMA fighters who "dont look the part" DO spend a good ammount of time on physical conditioning.

SA-BJJ was stating that someone who was described as not looking in shape wasn't in shape so I was begging to differ. I imagine the chap that maunakumu described does spend time on physical conditioning don't you?

 

[Makalakumu]

Yeah, but were talking about "being in shape", not "looking in shape". Im wagering those MMA fighters who "dont look the part" DO spend a good ammount of time on physical conditioning.

True, but I think the point is being made that there is a separation between "looking" and "being".

 

[Archangel M]

I could care less if a student "looked" in shape as long as he/she "was" in shape.

 

[Archangel M]

Does this really matter in the Martial Arts, I mean I have seen some pretty heavey and out of shape dudes that could kick the living **** out of someone. So how much truth is in it.

I think the initial post is asking if "being" in shape is important for self-defense.

 

[Kwan Jang]

Technique (and attitude/fighting spirit, ect)) make the most of what you've got. Working on the five components of fitness (muscular strength, muscular endurance, cardiovascular endurance, flexibility, and body composition) creates more to work with. If an individual increases their physical capacity w/o losing anything in technique, ect., then that individual will have more to work with and have the potential of becoming a better fighter than before.

There are a lot of people out there who are able to defend themselves despite the fact they are out of shape. However, there is little doubt that they would be even better fighters if they were in better shape. Still, they do provide a rationalization for those who know they really should work on their conditioning more, but choose not to. It takes work and a commitment of time and energy that many are unwilling to make for various reasons. I will say that IMO that the practice of MA and self defense though is paramount in becoming able to defend yourself and being a good fighter and if your resources are limited towards training, this should be a higher priority than conditioning.

Finally, regarding body fat: it is excess weight that does not contribute to moving the body the way that lean tissue does. Can you be in good cardiovascular condition and be strong carrying around a certain amount of excess body fat? Of course. But it's akin to filling the trunk of your car with sand. It will still go, but it adds very little of benefit for most things you are trying to acomplish and merely subtracts from your available horsepower. Ex. In the strongman competition, the fatter guy didn't win because he wasn't as lean, it was because of other factors and pretty much in spite of it. Until you get down to body fat levels below 5-8% (depending on the individual. Also, I am referring to males for this percentage), being leaner is a plus for overall athletic performance in general (their are some exceptions obviously such as simply having more mass in a collision, even though lean tissue would still be superior here as well).

 

[Makalakumu]

Until you get down to body fat levels below 5-8%

There are a lot of people out there that will never reach this level without starvation. There are A LOT of factors that determine how a person's body carries and distributes fat. Humans are animals. Fat is the bodies long term energy reserves. I'd be very surprised if there was an actual study that showed that humans can ONLY reach their physical peaks in performance if they reduced their body fat percentage to 5-8%. I'm thinking the real numbers are probably anywhere between 5% and 25% based on the individual and based on the natural biologic variation in homo sapians. I haven't seen anything to back that up, but that's my educated guess.