Out of Shape "Masters"

[Rob_Broad]

Way to go Dot, give em hell. These "out of shape Masters" are just people like the rest of us. They do have lives outside of training regardless of how appalling this may seem to some people. We must also take into consideration the body breaks down over time, and serious injuries do happen. If this happens then the person usually packs it on.

 

[jeffbeish]

Ditto. The Age Thing does catch up with us all. However, when we are young those things are not considered. It is a defensive mechanism we use to rationalize our youthful foolishness.

Who said that youth is wasted on the young?:shrug:

 

[IFAJKD]

ok now you're into another area. Fat people not training and eating big ol hams in front of a clas yelling to work it. Ok I get it.. No. yuk but putting that person aside, I have seen many over weight people do amasing things. Priorities are such that one trains for what they find important. If physical looks are not high on the list so be it. They still condition, train for skill and CAN do it. I weight train and my first Kali Instructoir did not he could move unlike many I have seen yet. Again. some people will never look as if they train yet they do as hard or harder than many others that look great, Others still will be unable to look different as genetically they cannot do as much about their lot in life.

I will however stay away from the ham eater in a seminar.

 

[GouRonin]

The gentleman in question and I have spoken on numourous occasions regarding his weight. He is capable of many things and is a fine teacher. He however does not push his students and not do anything himself. SO HE DOES NOT FALL INTO THIS CATAGORY. However I have told him many times that I fear for his life because of his weight. I think of him as a friend and would hate to lose him. He himself is aware of it and working on losing some weight. Anything he does however is NOT dependant on his size, with the possible exception of his power. He himself will say this.

Okie dokie, here comes the rant.


It sounds like a lot of people here and elsewhere are trying to find way to justify their size. That's it's ok to be that big. Fine, if you want to belive that that's ok. But if you think that your body does not suffer from carrying excess weight then you're just fooling yourself.

Why am I so pissed about this? I'm not a heavy guy. It's not because I'm not heavy that I'm pissed it's because everyone whines that I shouldn't pick on heavy guys. Hey, you know what? It seems it's a-ok to make fun of the smaller slim guys. Earlier you yourself made jokes about my lack of girth. It seems it's ok to make fun of people who are slim. But you know what? I HAVE to work out to keep my weight on. It's been a constant struggle to keep the weight I have on now. Yet it's a laughing riot to make fun of the size of people who are slim. So while you're all whining and complaining how hard it is to lose weight for some of us it's hard to put that weight on. You might have no clue that some of us have to work at that because when we get sick we don't have the weight to get better faster. But because people are so PC it's not ok to say to someone "you're fat," but it's ok to laugh about how skinny people are. I spent a lot of work building up to my size that I am now. That's why I never make fun of heavier people because you never know if they may have just lost a lot of weight. They should be congratulated for it.

As for not saying anything to anyone, well you know I have no problem saying these things to anyone's face. If someone wants to roll up to me and joke about how skinny I am then they better be prepared to hear back how much of a fat chunk I think they might be. Don't dish it out if you can't take it. Otherwise I am quite content to keep my mouth shut and accept people how they are.

My whole beef is with people who ask you to do things while they themselves are waaay out of shape. It doesn't mean they are bad teachers. Good teachers will ask you to push yourselves anyway. There are thin teachers who are just as bad. But don't try to shame me into silence or think it's ok to make pokes but not get poked.

Alrighty. I said my piece. Keil...here I come.
:soapbox:

 

[Rob_Broad]

Gou I believe that is whay I was saying when I mentioned the skinny guys in my earlier comment. You just said it much more passionately. Size should not be an issue. But unfortunately it does come into play. What is really important is whether the person has the knowledge.

 

[IFAJKD]

I don't know if anyone is trying to justify their weight. so hold on sparky. I am 5'11" and 195 I train hard to keep this too. but alas, the older I get the less it wants to stay without more effort. You made a good point on both ends. There is this bizzare standard that everyone seems to think they should fall into. real women vs models and hollywood males vs real men. VanDamn is like a small guy but couldn't tell from the movies. Add martial arts to the equation and more expectations on how a "warrior" should look. Who the hell cares. If you like your life style and conditioning then cool. if you don't...change it. Get to the level you are able to get to and #$@K em. If you can't change what you have been delt then learn to accept it and take up mindful walking:asian:

 

[KenpoGirl]

My only rebuttal, would be to say that my teasing you earlier, was in reply to an amusing picture I saw of you. This string was of a more serious vein and I needed to make a comment. That's all, I was not speaking to any one individual, but the group.

I understand your feelings, and I agree with what you have said. It doesn't matter who you are, jokes and teasing about a persons size be they small or big, hurts. I apologize if my teasing earlier, irked you.

Dot

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Actually, Gou made a valid point...the thin are just as 'judged'. How many times have you seen a really thin person and thought "he's not an athlete"...but somehow, he's got more endurance than any 10 guys. (wish it was me, I get tired sleeping)

I honestly never looked at it from that angle...definately eye opening.

Thank you.
:asian:

 

[Cthulhu]

I just want to keep my size so I don't have to buy more clothes. I loathe clothes shopping

I think IFAJKD touched on a point that I'll elaborate on a bit. In North America, the general public has an image of what a martial artist should look like, which unfortunately comes from film, TV, etc. They expect martial artists to look like Bruce Lee, VanDummy, Jackie Chan, and Chuck Norris. So, your average Joe Shmoe may have second thoughts of training at a school where the head instructor may appear to be overweight. Unfortunately, by and large, we are a culture of first impressions based on physical appearance. Joe Shmoe may not stick around to find that that instructor happens to be very knowledgeable and an excellent instructor. That is unfortunate. It's also Joe Shmoe's loss.

I think the martial arts community should be less prejudiced in this regard. How many of us have seen tiny little men and women, or bigger, overweight instructors do some amazing things? I'm pretty sure most of us have seen this directly, or have heard of it secondhand at least. Therefore, we know not to judge a person's abilities by physical appearance alone. However, the general non-martial arts public hasn't had that experience to shake off this mentality.

Cthulhu
my train of thought derailed, so excuse me if this post ended abruptly

 

[Cthulhu]

Regarding 'skinny' people.

Look at Bruce Lee. I think at his heaviest, he was around 145lbs, maybe 5'7". With the exception of a few large muscle groups (his lats, pecs, forearms, and abs), he was very skinny. Yet he could generate unbelieveable power from his small body. He performed feats that many body builders couldn't match.

On a similar note, I used to lift weights with my drummer long ago (again, all photos and recordings have been destroyed, and the photographers and recording engineers murdered ). He was incredibly skinny, and didn't have a lot of muscle. He could eat and eat, but wouldn't gain weight. However, he could always bench more than me, though I outweighed him by about 50lbs. That's always amazed me. And pi$$ed em off

Cthulhu
if there's a point buried in the post, would someone point it out to me?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I think you nailed it there. We should look beyond, but dont.

 

[GouRonin]

I wasn't offended. Just didn't know any other way to get my point across. I don't care if someone is skinny or fat. Just get on the floor and have fun. You know that about me. I could care less what people look like, on the floor is where it counts. Just wanted to show that for every ying there is a yang we might never see. Opposites and reverses.

Besides, I could never be offended. I have a big dinky, I know how to use it, and that goes a long way for the ego.
:rofl:

 

[Rob_Broad]

If people want to see an amazing "big guy" the should watch Sammo Hyung. This guy is definitely overweight but can move like nobody's business.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Gou - too much information.... :erg: :idea: :hammer: :boing2:

Rob - again, another good point...he's a trip to watch too.

 

[Cthulhu]

Sammo Hung is amazing. However, I think the general public would rather see a VanDoofus, or Jackie Chan, rather than someone like Hung. Us martial artists know better

Even so, even Hung appears to have lost weight. This could be just for his health, but I can see the network bigwigs having a say, in order to make Sammo more 'marketable' to the North American viewers.

Again, it all stems from society in general, and even possibly from inherent instictual crap encoded in our genes, but let's not get into a zoological/anthropological/biology discussion, eh?

Cthulhu

 

[Victoria]

If you really stop to think about it, these "Masters" have earned their position, one way or another. If they have proper credentials, and have been awarded the position as an instructor, then does it really matter what size they may be? If a overly large instructor is telling you to get on the floor and give him 50 push-ups, then what should be stopping you? Just because he is no longer able to do this, has no bearing on what you will gain, by accomplishing this. If push-ups or whatever are used as a means of correcting an error, who's error was it?
I'm sure if a "master" has earned this position, he has already put in, his share of being in same position, and learning from it.
Did you join martial arts to watch what others are capable of? Or did you join to excell and see what you are capable of? How is it going to benefit you, by having your instructor on floor doing the push-ups, or excersises, or seeing what he is still capable of doing physicaly? If he has the knowledge and the know-how to teach you properly and direct you, then it is YOU who must be working on it. If you truly are questioning a master, soley based on his weight, then I would suggest you "empty your cup" before going in, forget about this judgement, and look with an open mind and heart, to what they truly have to offer and whether you are willing to learn from them, in a respectful, open minded, and loyal way.
I can see an issue, if the instructor is so out of shape that he is not able to critique and supervise properly. Or if his weight should pose serious health conditions and interfers with your training on a regular basis.. But just remember, ones weight, does not determine, ones knowledge.! Isn't it the knowledge of our founders and masters, what we are actualy seeking to learn?
Too many people have forgotten about the "true martial way". Many times, the best fighting techniques learned, do not come from our physical training in the Dojo.. It comes from experience and learning how to be a better and stronger person, inside and out. No matter how strong you get on the outside, it is your learning and knowledge on the inside that will carry you through and bring you the greatest rewards.. You can become ill and lose your muscle abilities, but unless you are brain dead, you will always have that knowledge.. Knowledge is our first and best weapon. Not our fighting skills and power.. Take the time to learn from everyone, no matter their size, shape, disability, or whatever.. It can only make you a better martial artist.
On a final note; One of my favorite "teachers" was a man in a wheelchair, who had been in car accident and left paralyzed from waist down, had spastic muscles, and a speech impediment. And he just happen to weigh around 350 pounds.. He taught me some things, that actualy ended up, saving my life, during a hard battle with an illness.. I guess it goes to show everyone, you never know what you got in front of you, till you are willing to be open enough to seek out it's true lessons. And everyone, no matter what their weight, has something to offer..
Victoria
:asian:

 

[Bob]

I can agree with everyone on this subject. I have been on both sides of the weight issue. I have never been small, but for a brief moment in time I was in good shape. As time went by and life issues came about I ballooned up closed to 400 pounds. I never lost the respect from my class mates, but I found myself limited in what I loved to do. If it was'nt for a good balance of good humor, and just blunt humor I would still be a very large guy. So, I think this thread is really productive for those people who are struggling with either of the extremes.
The interesting benefit to being so big or skinny is that potential situations are diffused really quickly because your abilities that you have refined are disguised by your outer exterior, and when the person who may take issue with you see you move they tend to think twice about pursuing the matter.
I have learned a lot people from both extremes. I have met, the in shape, the skinny, the large and the downright fat and have learned a heck of lot from everyone, the first impression was was overruled by their display of love for the arts.............
And why were at it, lets not forget about those short little girls who us large guys always underestimate, I have learned a couple of good lessons from them too.
Bob

 

[Rob_Broad]

Bravo Victoria

That was very well put. I too agree with your way of looking at it. If they are wearing that rank and are respected by their peers, then who am I to question them.

 

[Pappy Geo]

Bob said

As time went by and life issues came about I ballooned up closed to 400 pounds. I never lost the respect from my class mates

But don't let him kid you, he could still move like a cat on his feet and moving Bob was like trying to move a mountain around? Very fast hands and extremly good knife man that is why his nickname is "Knife Bob" around here. He is a brother!

Pappy Geo

 

[GouRonin]

If I hear one more person tell me the "True Martial Way" I'm gonna scream. Keep it to yourself.
:soapbox: