Because Okinawa is..

[bignick]

The TKD I have seen in Korea and the US used Shotokan kata as it's core curriculum.

In fact I saw very little training that didn’t look like it came from shotokan. The one difference I did see was emphasis on kicks….and high ones at that. The kata were the same basic kata but done a little “bouncier”. Other than that there is not much difference except maybe the commands that were given in Korean.

Not to many do the Japanese forms anymore, but there are some taekwondo schools that do. Although the palgwe series, the firt ones the WTF created, resemble very strongly some of the Japanese forms. I had a nice little suprise watching my jujutsu instructor test some of his karate students and a lot of the time I had a pretty good guess as to how the kata went. The movements were generally similar though executed with a different emphasis and style.

I have noticed also that some Koreans do NOT like it when you say something about TKD coming from Japan. Very sensitive historical point for them.

Some have been down right “ultra right wingers” about TKD being a “pure Korean” art. Maybe they figure National Pride gives them the right to re-write some of their martial history.

Hear it all the time. "Tae Kwon Do is a 2000 year old Korean martial art...blah, blah, blah" Just smile and nod, some people need their illusions.

Hell the Japanese are just as bad……they think Karate is a Japanese invention like Judo and Kendo.

I don't doubt it.

 

[arnisador]

As a result of the Japanese invasion of 1609 the king of Okinawa was taken to Edo (Tokyo) for his own “protection”, read held prisoner.

He was taken to some part of southern Japan and made to travel by land all the way to Tokyo. I have heard the trip took almost a year.

Evidently the Royal family of Okinawa returned but never reclaimed the thrown as they once had. However Okinawa was still kind of like Guam is to the US today…….a protectorate, and then in 1879 became a prefecture. Oddly enough Okinawans still needed authorization to go to “Japan” and work even in the 1920’s. Kind of odd for someone from the same country to have such a requirement.

If my understanding is correct the Okianwan Gov. or possibly the Royal family was still paying tribute to the Chinese, most likely the Chinese Emperor.

Interesting! I had heard that they were relocated a few years after the 1879 action, and I knew they had been under Japanese control for a long time before that and that they had always been caught between China and Japan, but I hadn't known that the royal family had first been evacuated 400 years ago! I need to find an accessible history of Okinawa--"Okinawan History for Karateka" or something.

 

[RRouuselot]

I need to find an accessible history of Okinawa--"Okinawan History for Karateka" or something.

Le tme look around and see if I can find something in English

 

[RBaddorf]

http://www.wonder-okinawa.jp/003/index_e.html


Official Okinawa web site.

 

[RBaddorf]

http://www.wonder-okinawa.jp/023/eng/

Martial Arts portion of official Okinawa site. Has interesting history section.

Enjoy. Notice Okinawan 10th Dans wear only 3 stripes on their belts (if they wear any at all).

 

[RBaddorf]

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Commemorating the establishment of the basic kata of karate-do (1937)
(Front, from right) Chojun Miyagi, Chomo Hanashiro, Kentsu Yabu, Chotoku Kyan(Back, from right) Genwa Nakasone, Choshin Chibana, Choryo Maeshiro, Shinpan Shiroma.It is said that the traditional Okinawan martial arts called Te and Chinese Kenpo were blended together and developed into karate. Karate later underwent significant developments in Okinawa based on several factors, including the policy of banning weapons following the political centralization of King Shoshin (1477-1526) and the Satsuma Clan's invasion of Ryukyu (1609).

Chotoku Kyan (2nd from left, 1941)It later developed further through a process of systematization into 'Modern Karate', which actually had a lot to do with the efforts of the men known as the Chuko no so (The Revivers), including Sokon Matsumura (1828-1898) of the Shuri-te style, Kosaku Matsumora (1829-1898) of the Tomari-te style and Kanryo Higaonna (1853-1915) of the Naha-te style.

In 1908, 'The 10 Articles of Karate' prepared by Anko Itosu were submitted to the Educational Affairs Section of Okinawa Prefecture. After that, karate started being introduced into the school gymnastics curriculum, thus acquiring broad accessibility, in contrast to the previously secret principles of Isshi-soden (the complete transmission of a ryu's techniques only to your heir).

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[RRouuselot]

Ok here is the problem I have with the present mainstream version of karate history.

Did all karate come from the Itosu/ Sakugawa tode line of karate?

Answer: No

So why is it 99% of the karate history today is written as such?

Answer: poor research or lack of motivation to do "other" research.

There were other prominent karateka around at the same time.

 

[47MartialMan]

There were other prominent karateka around at the same time.

name a few

 

[TimoS]

name a few

Apparently there aren't many currently known karate "ancestors" who were around when "tode" Sakugawa was around but other contemporaries of Itosu was e.g. Kanryo Higashionna, although Itosu seems to have been somewhat older

 

[RRouuselot]

name a few

I always like they way you ask your questions with such politeness.



1)[font=&quot] [/font]Kogusuku Uekata

2)[font=&quot] [/font]Bushi Maezato

3)[font=&quot] [/font]Seijin Tanmei

4)[font=&quot] [/font]Karyu Uku

5)[font=&quot] [/font]Tokumine Peichin

6)[font=&quot] [/font]Kosaku Matumora

7)[font=&quot] [/font]Maeda Peichin

8)[font=&quot] [/font]Shiroma Gusukuma

9)[font=&quot] [/font]Chunna Tanmei

10)[font=&quot] [/font]Bushi Kuniyoshi

 

[RRouuselot]

Apparently there aren't many currently known karate "ancestors" who were around when "tode" Sakugawa was around but other contemporaries of Itosu was e.g. Kanryo Higashionna, although Itosu seems to have been somewhat older

Actually some of the people I listed below were alive at the same time as he was.

 

[TimoS]

1)[font=&quot] [/font]Kogusuku Uekata

2)[font=&quot] [/font]Bushi Maezato

3)[font=&quot] [/font]Seijin Tanmei

4)[font=&quot] [/font]Karyu Uku

5)[font=&quot] [/font]Tokumine Peichin

6)[font=&quot] [/font]Kosaku Matumora

7)[font=&quot] [/font]Maeda Peichin

8)[font=&quot] [/font]Shiroma Gusukuma

9)[font=&quot] [/font]Chunna Tanmei

10)[font=&quot] [/font]Bushi Kuniyoshi

Most of those are quite unknown names. How many of them have their own lineage that still exists ?

 

[TimoS]

Actually some of the people I listed below were alive at the same time as he was.

I don't doubt that. I was just looking it up from one book that I happened to have open and there weren't too many listed

 

[RRouuselot]

Most of those are quite unknown names. How many of them have their own lineage that still exists ?

During their day most people on that list knew one kata maybe two and that was their “style”*, and yet some of them were major players in Okinawan MA.





*Kusanku for example is said to have only taught one kata, the one that bears his name.

 

[roninrogue]

One of the names you fail to mention, not so much you as maybe your text.

Is Master Uechi Kanei, the man that started the Okinawan style of Karated known as Uechi-Ryu. That was where I recieved my beginning formal martial arts and have wondered since I am sure Master Kanei is now deceased from age.

Would still be interested to know what dojos are still operating and teaching same. Or how well as a martial art it is surviving. A person last fall lamented that Uechi Ryu was an almost vanishing martial art.

 

[arnisador]

I studied it briefly in Providence, RI. See http://www.uechi-ryu.com/ and also search this site for more info.

I think his grandson is now the head, and of course there are splinter orgs. It's still a lesser known style, but not in any danger of dying out I think.

 

[RRouuselot]

1)One of the names you fail to mention, not so much you as maybe your text.

2)Is Master Uechi Kanei, the man that started the Okinawan style of Karated known as Uechi-Ryu. That was where I recieved my beginning formal martial arts and have wondered since I am sure Master Kanei is now deceased from age.

3)Would still be interested to know what dojos are still operating and teaching same. Or how well as a martial art it is surviving. A person last fall lamented that Uechi Ryu was an almost vanishing martial art.

1)I didn’t forget him but purposely left him and several others out since there is extensive information written about them, their training, and where they receive their training.

2)Actually it was Kanyei's father Kanbun that started Uechi Ryu, the father died in 1948.

3)There are a lot of Uechi ryu dojo…..do an internet search and you can find them. Start with George E. Matteson in the US..........

 

[searcher]

I always like they way you ask your questions with such politeness.



1)Kogusuku Uekata

2)Bushi Maezato

3)Seijin Tanmei

4)Karyu Uku

5)Tokumine Peichin

6)Kosaku Matumora

7)Maeda Peichin

8)Shiroma Gusukuma

9)Chunna Tanmei

10)Bushi Kuniyoshi

What about Seisho Aragaki? He taught many of the masters of today's karate style: Kanryo Higaonna, Funakoshi, Chitose, Mabuni. Many consider him to be the premier martial artist of his day, but he is so often overlooked.

 

[RRouuselot]

Here is something odd....... to date I have yet to see a photo/drawing of Funakoshi's teacher Azato. We see plenty on Itosu........just struck me as odd for all the he is mentioned.

 

[47MartialMan]

Could it be that not all instructors take pictures or think of taking them? or that there wasn't a camera easliy available/aceesible? Weren't cameras a rare object to have?