Where did Karate originate from

[Martin h]

Karate was created on okinawa. It drew heavily, but not exclusively on chinese kungfu (or chuanfa, since kungfu is bad terminology), it also incorporated skills imported from other parts of asia, along with the native Ryukyu boxing arts. The chinese influence came over in several waves, but never replaced the okinawan arts. only strongly influenced them.

But saying that karate originated in china is very wrong. It is the okinawan origin that defines karate. Both Miyagi and his okinawan teacher kanryu studied chuanfa in Fukien China, for a few years each, but they didnt learn everything they knew there. They also drew on a base of okinawan "karate" teachings, and blended it all in what finaly became goju ryu.

Some karate styles, like uechi ryu, is more influenced by chinese chunfa than other styles of karate. Kanbun Uechi had almost no martial art training at all before he went to live in Fukien, china, and actually didnt start his own style until he lived in mainland japan (after first moving back to his native okinawa from china for several years), not teaching in okinawa until Kanbun was old and his son opened a dojo there. But those are exceptions.

 

[bustr]

This brings up a point which I'm gonna post in the Kung Fu section. Did Shaolin and WuDan practices exist as martial arts before the popularization of TouDi? Or were they simply exercise sequences? Did the Chinese develop "martial arts" after seeing what Kamo and Funakoshi were up to? Allen Pittman has observed that there are similarities between BaGua and some Orissa Dances from India. Patrick McCarthy referes to Boxing, Wrestling, forms (I'm assuming animal frolics or Yoga) and arresting holds as parent disciplines of TouDi. It makes me wonder if the Chinese forms had any practical hand to hand combat content or if they were simply exercises and dances.

 

[Em MacIntosh]

Karate still originates. My karate came from me with a little help from my sensei.

 

[chinto]

This brings up a point which I'm gonna post in the Kung Fu section. Did Shaolin and WuDan practices exist as martial arts before the popularization of TouDi? Or were they simply exercise sequences? Did the Chinese develop "martial arts" after seeing what Kamo and Funakoshi were up to? Allen Pittman has observed that there are similarities between BaGua and some Orissa Dances from India. Patrick McCarthy referes to Boxing, Wrestling, forms (I'm assuming animal frolics or Yoga) and arresting holds as parent disciplines of TouDi. It makes me wonder if the Chinese forms had any practical hand to hand combat content or if they were simply exercises and dances.

yes the chinese had systemized Chuan Fa for a long time before 1500 or so AD. there were schools and of course the shaulin monistarys that tought systems of combat. the systems that sakagawa learned from kusanku and some others were already systems in their own right. some where chinese, some Okinawan.

 

[Insley Stiles]

Greetings,

A bit about Uechi Ryu. Kanbun Uechi took a trip to China to avoid being conscripted into the military actually. While there he studied at the Central Temple in Fukien Province with Master Zhou Tzu Ho (his Okinawan name is Shushiwa). He was taught a martial art called Pangainoon (which means half hard - half soft), a system based on the movements of the Tiger, Dragon and Crane. It consisted of 3 kata if memory serves, Sanchin, Seisan and San Seiru (sp), as well as several training exercises I'm not familiar with. After studying there for about 10 years he made his way back to Okinawa. He continued his training adding components of Okinawan Karate, from which styles I do not know. Master Uechi married and became a farmer but did not teach publically. He had to be tricked into teaching by a friend who would tell him "accounts" of fights he was supposedly in and asked his advice on what he should have done. He finally opened a dojo and taught until his death at the age of 71. Today, Uechi Ryu Karate-Do is one of the most highly regarded styles taught in Okinawa.

It has a very interesting history. Anyone interested should google it.

Regards,
Ins

 

[chinto]

yep, that is what my reserch indicated in the case of Uechi Ryu as well.

 

[wingchunguy]

Did Karate originate from Okinawa, or China?
What is your perspective? There are many stories about where karate Originated from.

One story is that Funakoshi (the "father" of Modern Karate) learned Karate in Okinawa and was asked to deminstrate his ability in Japan and that evryone liked the deminstration so Funakoshi taught Karate to the Japanese. Here Funakoshi changed the name from Te-do to Karate- Do.

Another story is that Miyagi (the founder of Okinawin Goju-Rye Karate) somehow got to china and the chinese taught Miyagi the Martial Arts. Miyagi later came back to Okinawa and taught the Martial art to the Okinawins. So did Karate Originate from china or Okinawa?

I will take all your opinions that I can get. This will hopefully help me get the answer to the Question posted.

Sincerely, Eric

Regardless of what ANYONE says, ALL FIGHTING martial arts came from China. The internal arts, such as Chi Kung, was developed from India and Bodirama (sorry for the spelling), an ugly prince with large rings in his ears, fat and smelly. Modified wing chun migrated into Japan (or Okinawa) and spread from there.

 

[wingchunguy]

Greetings,

A bit about Uechi Ryu. Kanbun Uechi took a trip to China to avoid being conscripted into the military actually. While there he studied at the Central Temple in Fukien Province with Master Zhou Tzu Ho (his Okinawan name is Shushiwa). He was taught a martial art called Pangainoon (which means half hard - half soft), a system based on the movements of the Tiger, Dragon and Crane. It consisted of 3 kata if memory serves, Sanchin, Seisan and San Seiru (sp), as well as several training exercises I'm not familiar with. After studying there for about 10 years he made his way back to Okinawa. He continued his training adding components of Okinawan Karate, from which styles I do not know. Master Uechi married and became a farmer but did not teach publically. He had to be tricked into teaching by a friend who would tell him "accounts" of fights he was supposedly in and asked his advice on what he should have done. He finally opened a dojo and taught until his death at the age of 71. Today, Uechi Ryu Karate-Do is one of the most highly regarded styles taught in Okinawa.

It has a very interesting history. Anyone interested should google it.

Regards,
Ins

Right, again proving my point that it came from China and migrated into Japan (or Okinawa) and on.

 

[wingchunguy]

Karate was created on okinawa. It drew heavily, but not exclusively on chinese kungfu (or chuanfa, since kungfu is bad terminology), it also incorporated skills imported from other parts of asia, along with the native Ryukyu boxing arts. The chinese influence came over in several waves, but never replaced the okinawan arts. only strongly influenced them.

But saying that karate originated in china is very wrong. It is the okinawan origin that defines karate. Both Miyagi and his okinawan teacher kanryu studied chuanfa in Fukien China, for a few years each, but they didnt learn everything they knew there. They also drew on a base of okinawan "karate" teachings, and blended it all in what finaly became goju ryu.

Some karate styles, like uechi ryu, is more influenced by chinese chunfa than other styles of karate. Kanbun Uechi had almost no martial art training at all before he went to live in Fukien, china, and actually didnt start his own style until he lived in mainland japan (after first moving back to his native okinawa from china for several years), not teaching in okinawa until Kanbun was old and his son opened a dojo there. But those are exceptions.

No, it originate in China and migrated to Okinawa where it became karate, then moved in to Japan and spread from there. It doesn't mean the style isn't karate, it just means it originated in China, like all martial arts, except for ones like Greco-Roman wrestling and maybe some Greek martial arts.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Regardless of what ANYONE says, ALL FIGHTING martial arts came from China. The internal arts, such as Chi Kung, was developed from India and Bodirama (sorry for the spelling), an ugly prince with large rings in his ears, fat and smelly. Modified wing chun migrated into Japan (or Okinawa) and spread from there.

So... I guess nobody fought in Europe prior to establishing contact with China?

 

[Touch Of Death]

yes the chinese had systemized Chuan Fa for a long time before 1500 or so AD. there were schools and of course the shaulin monistarys that tought systems of combat. the systems that sakagawa learned from kusanku and some others were already systems in their own right. some where chinese, some Okinawan.

Add about 30,000 years, and maybe.

 

[Cirdan]

Regardless of what ANYONE says, ALL FIGHTING martial arts came from China. The internal arts, such as Chi Kung, was developed from India and Bodirama (sorry for the spelling), an ugly prince with large rings in his ears, fat and smelly. Modified wing chun migrated into Japan (or Okinawa) and spread from there.

I am fat and smelly too, does that mean I have potential?

 

[K-man]

I am fat and smelly too, does that mean I have potential?

Mate it must be all that oily fish you guys are renown for. Have you considered a change of diet?

 

[Chris Parker]

Regardless of what ANYONE says, ALL FIGHTING martial arts came from China. The internal arts, such as Chi Kung, was developed from India and Bodirama (sorry for the spelling), an ugly prince with large rings in his ears, fat and smelly. Modified wing chun migrated into Japan (or Okinawa) and spread from there.

A 10 year old thread resurrected, and that's what you add? Hmm… okay…

Please explain to me the Chinese origins of Tenshinsho Den Katori Shinto Ryu… or Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu… or Pancration… Queensbury Rules Boxing… Epee and Rapier fencing…

Or, of course, you could take a step back and realise that what you wrote is, without question, completely incorrect in every way that can be thought of. After all, many, many, many, many arts, systems, methodologies and so forth exist (and have existed) completely independent of anything close to anything that "originated in China" (take a look at Zulu spear methods)… internal arts were, again, not unique to China, although far more prominent in the East than the West, but it must be noted that you, yourself attribute the origins there to India, not China, with a mis-spelling of Bodhidharma (Daruma), as well as giving a rather negative and bias-revealing description of him… and "modified Wing Chun migrated to Japan"… huh? Dude, not by any stretch of the imagination whatsoever… for one thing, the Chinese systems that are believed to have some influence on Okinawan (Karate) systems do not include Wing Chun at all… "modified" or otherwise… and there is no Japanese system I have ever come across that even remotely resembles or shows any relationship to Wing Chun at all… honestly, this was just funny.

Again, I recommend taking a step back, and rethinking without the reliance on obviously false rhetoric, yeah?

 

[Buka]

All of us know where it came from. It came from someone, or someones, who named it and said to someone else, "Hey, look at this."

 

[Limasogobudo]

Karate came from okinawa and from their it came from china with a mix of okinawa te. from china came from india with mun di and way further back. I think sometimes we dig so deep for something we can not have that we forget we are making history ourselves. We need to preserve the past and improve for the future. But if you want to see some really cool roots of karate look at African tribal wresting or fights. The moral of any martial arts history was that their were people oppressed and decided to stand up to protect their community. We however here in American are forgetting that and getting walked on all the time. So we should remember our history not just in the arts but in our nations history as well.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Regardless of what ANYONE says, ALL FIGHTING martial arts came from China. The internal arts, such as Chi Kung, was developed from India and Bodirama (sorry for the spelling), an ugly prince with large rings in his ears, fat and smelly. Modified wing chun migrated into Japan (or Okinawa) and spread from there.

Why not Africa? People came from Africa, people fight, therefore fighting itself was invented in Africa.

 

[qianfeng]

Why not Africa? People came from Africa, people fight, therefore fighting itself was invented in Africa.

Dude you forgot about the dinosaurs and the monkeys

 

[TimoS]

The moral of any martial arts history was that their were people oppressed and decided to stand up to protect their community.

Oppressed? Hardly. For example, the old karate (or ti, actually) masters were court nobles, bodyguards, etc.

 

[RowdyAz]

Right, again proving my point that it came from China and migrated into Japan (or Okinawa) and on.

Were the samurai originally from China and is iaido an ancient Chinese martial art