Basics & Techniques

[Doc]

Doc, GD7 or anyone else:
Was Mr. Parker the first to put a name to all the basics in order to complete the "motion sentences" or did the Japanese and Chinese do the same as they developed their techniques and forms for reference sake?

The Chinese taught and information was passed through demonstrated and posed physical expressions, laced with flowery metaphors and substitute euphemisms. Coupled together for students, this enhanced the learning process and gave a point of reference for very sophisticated scientific physical applications. They often used animal references (real and mythical) for references, because 'how' a creature moved is something that could actually be observed and/or understood.

Mr. Parker borrowed naming basics and techniques from the Chinese, choosing to use descriptive standard and consistent English Terminology to explain 'basics.' He did opt however to maintain the 'flowery' metaphors, etc in the naming of techniques for the same reason the Chinese did. It makes them easier to remember.

A hand position called "Eye of the Phoenix" is an example of a basic hand position. This position caused a wrinkle in the second joint of the index finger that resembled the eye of a bird as a reference. This particular reference was used and illustrated in Mr. Parkers second book, "Secrets of Chinese Karate" along with another example, "Twin Dragons after the Pearl."

Although these specific references appear on the surface to be unnecessary or excessive, (Mr. Parker received the same ignorant criticism), these hand positions actually have significant implications as to the structure of the entire body, as do every part of the human body. The change of a single finger position can have a profound effect positive or negative on human anatomical efficiency. Move a finger incorrectly and your body can become incapable of supporting a solidified base. Move it another way, and you become 'rock solid.' Ummmmm, there we go with the metaphors again.

For various reasons the Japanese and Okinawans did not grasp the significance of this finite method of passing scientific information, and opted instead to teach from the "tradition persepetive" which translates to "do it this way because I said so." Now there is nothing wrong with this cultural method that doesn't allow students to ask questions, as long as the teacher knows what he's talking about. But then, without the ability to ask questions, how would you know? This method is common because most teachers are unknowledgeable, and it masks their lack of knowledge by not having to entertain questions from curious students of all ages. Then there are others that feel compelled to 'always have an answer,' and instead come up with some really weird stuff. I heard a high raking instructor, (who will remain nameless) at a camp in Vegas, suggest on a strike that you must "synchronize your movement with the rotational effect of the earth." No, I'm not kidding and neither was he. .

 

[lenatoi]

"synchronize your movement with the rotational effect of the earth." !?
That sounds a little over the top. Crazy!

 

[Flying Crane]

Although these specific references appear on the surface to be unnecessary or excessive, (Mr. Parker received the same ignorant criticism), these hand positions actually have significant implications as to the structure of the entire body, as do every part of the human body. The change of a single finger position can have a profound effect positive or negative on human anatomical efficiency. Move a finger incorrectly and your body can become incapable of supporting a solidified base. Move it another way, and you become 'rock solid.' Ummmmm, there we go with the metaphors again.

Doc, could you give us a concrete example of what you are talking about here? I for one, and I suspect others as well, don't have an adequate understanding of anatomy and physiology to visualize this concept in action. I certainly understand how a well-executed finger-lock can establish complete control over someone, for example, but it sounds like you are talking about something different. Thanks.

 

[Kenpodoc]

"synchronize your movement with the rotational effect of the earth."

There you go Doc, making light of someone who has found a way to escape the drudgery of basics and use the full power of the earth in their technique.

Jeff

 

[KenpoDave]

"synchronize your movement with the rotational effect of the earth."

There you go Doc, making light of someone who has found a way to escape the drudgery of basics and use the full power of the earth in their technique.

Jeff

LOL, talk about your backup mass! And all along, I have just wanted to be able to use all of my weight effectively. Now I have to learn to use the whole planet???

 

[bujuts]

Now I have to learn to use the whole planet???

I'm rather fond of that analogy myself. I've explained to students that I (the person hitting) am just a popping spring between two objects in space. One is them, the other is the earth. One of the objects WILL move

Cheers,

Steven Brown
UKF

 

[Doc]

Doc, could you give us a concrete example of what you are talking about here? I for one, and I suspect others as well, don't have an adequate understanding of anatomy and physiology to visualize this concept in action. I certainly understand how a well-executed finger-lock can establish complete control over someone, for example, but it sounds like you are talking about something different. Thanks.

Short, short version. The human body is made up of approximately 206 bones (depending on age), and various density supportive connecting tissues from gelatinous to solid, covered by a porous epidermous skin. For the body to present itself as a single solid entity creating whole body structural integrity, all of these many parts that have an infinite relationship to each other must be properly aligned. If anyone piece of the human machine is out of alignment, the whole machine can be rendered incapable of solidarity and focused function.

The ability to control someone else begins with the ability to control ones own body to maximize the whole body effect.

 

[Flying Crane]

Short, short version. The human body is made up of approximately 206 bones (depending on age), and various density supportive connecting tissues from gelatinous to solid, covered by a porous epidermous skin. For the body to present itself as a single solid entity creating whole body structural integrity, all of these many parts that have an infinite relationship to each other must be properly aligned. If anyone piece of the human machine is out of alignment, the whole machine can be rendered incapable of solidarity and focused function.

The ability to control someone else begins with the ability to control ones own body to maximize the whole body effect.

OK, I understand that this is the level about which you are talking, and I certainly understand that proper and solid basics are what make everything else work, and without solid basics everything else can be worthless. I also understand that the different parts of the body need to work together properly to achieve maximum results with minimum effort. I guess I was wondering if you could give a specific example in action, of the kind of precision you are talking about, for example the "one finger slightly out of place" kind of example, where the entire integrity of the execution is destroyed or at least significantly weakened. thx.

 

[Doc]

OK, I understand that this is the level about which you are talking, and I certainly understand that proper and solid basics are what make everything else work, and without solid basics everything else can be worthless. I also understand that the different parts of the body need to work together properly to achieve maximum results with minimum effort. I guess I was wondering if you could give a specific example in action, of the kind of precision you are talking about, for example the "one finger slightly out of place" kind of example, where the entire integrity of the execution is destroyed or at least significantly weakened. thx.

OK but I hate to do experiments because its been my experience on forums that few will give reasonable feedback, if they are doing them. - or they alter them to their own specifications and declare "It doesn't work." Absent personal supervision, sometimes these things can be difficult to replicate for those that don't want them to. Maybe that's why they don't respond. of course I know you are not one of those.

1) Step into a horse stance, feel parallel. Have someone check from the rear. Typically most think their feet are parallel when they are not. (Its a PNF thing)

2) Extend your arms out to the side palms facing forward.

3) Swing your arms extended forward, shoulder width apart, palms facing each other.

4) Have someone push inward on your arms to force your palms together. Feel your strength.

They should not be able to push them together without great effort over time.

Disengage the resistence

1) Repeat above - but now point one finger on either hand toward your opposite hand.

2) Repeat the pressure test.

BOTH arms should collaspe together unable to maintain structure. In fact the structure of your entire body has changed and you should be easily moved out of your stance, and your ability to breathe deeply is restricted because you moved the position of one finger.

Everyone sings the praises of the importance of 'basics.' No one argues their importance, but few understand the anatomical methodology that must be inherent in all efficient human movement. Few have the knowledge and "Basics" is just a word to cover what most don't know. Everything you do must be meticulously explained as to the 'how' of execution. Most teach what they 'saw,' and attempt to mimic their teacher. Mimic instruction cannot yield proper execution, because you can't do that which you cannot recognize and have no knowledge. That's why video study is beyond ridiculous. I can perform a simple move standing in front of you, and if I don't break it down physically, AND meticulously explain its execution, AND correct you over and over again. - You'll never 'get it.' Everyone can move, few can move properly, and even fewer can teach you how to move.

 

[Doc]

"synchronize your movement with the rotational effect of the earth."

There you go Doc, making light of someone who has found a way to escape the drudgery of basics and use the full power of the earth in their technique.

Jeff

My apologies sir, but everytime I think of that teacher saying that, I always think of a toilet bowl flushing and watching the water flow clockwise, or is in couterclockwise, or maybe it depends upon where you live.

 

[Doc]

I'm rather fond of that analogy myself. I've explained to students that I (the person hitting) am just a popping spring between two objects in space. One is them, the other is the earth. One of the objects WILL move

Cheers,

Steven Brown
UKF

 

[Flying Crane]

OK but I hate to do experiments because its been my experience on forums that few will give reasonable feedback, if they are doing them. - or they alter them to their own specifications and declare "It doesn't work." Absent personal supervision, sometimes these things can be difficult to replicate for those that don't want them to. Maybe that's why they don't respond. of course I know you are not one of those.

1) Step into a horse stance, feel parallel. Have someone check from the rear. Typically most think their feet are parallel when they are not. (Its a PNF thing)

2) Extend your arms out to the side palms facing forward.

3) Swing your arms extended forward, shoulder width apart, palms facing each other.

4) Have someone push inward on your arms to force your palms together. Feel your strength.

They should not be able to push them together without great effort over time.

Disengage the resistence

1) Repeat above - but now point one finger on either hand toward your opposite hand.

2) Repeat the pressure test.

BOTH arms should collaspe together unable to maintain structure. In fact the structure of your entire body has changed and you should be easily moved out of your stance, and your ability to breathe deeply is restricted because you moved the position of one finger.

Everyone sings the praises of the importance of 'basics.' No one argues their importance, but few understand the anatomical methodology that must be inherent in all efficient human movement. Few have the knowledge and "Basics" is just a word to cover what most don't know. Everything you do must be meticulously explained as to the 'how' of execution. Most teach what they 'saw,' and attempt to mimic their teacher. Mimic instruction cannot yield proper execution, because you can't do that which you cannot recognize and have no knowledge. That's why video study is beyond ridiculous. I can perform a simple move standing in front of you, and if I don't break it down physically, AND meticulously explain its execution, AND correct you over and over again. - You'll never 'get it.' Everyone can move, few can move properly, and even fewer can teach you how to move.

OK, I tried it out, and asked my wife to push in on my arms. I did not tell her what I was trying to determine, just asked her to do it. Did it several times, just to be sure, before I told her the punchline. You are right, she definitely felt a difference in my strength with the fingers pointing at each other. Very interesting. I appreciate that example.

I suspect it is difficult or impossible to describe this kind of thing within actual martial context, without working together face-to-face. Seems like the variations and subtleties would be too great to describe without actually being there, working hands-on. But the above example does seem to show in the general sense how this can work.

That being said, I have a thought that I think is relevant, and I would appreciate your comments on. I have heard it said that your kicking techniques can be more powerful if you hold your hands open and relaxed (fingers together, slightly cupped for safety), instead of in a fist. I think this is true, and my take on it is that when you hold your fist clenched, you create tension that can travel down your arms and into your torso and have a noticable affect on the kicking technique. This tension prevents the fluid power of the body from transferring into the kick. But if the hands are held more relaxed, the tension is absent, allowing for a more fluid and powerful kick, with less effort. If you agree with this assessment, would you say this is related to what you are talking about with regard to structural integrity and such? thanks again.

 

[Doc]

OK, I tried it out, and asked my wife to push in on my arms. I did not tell her what I was trying to determine, just asked her to do it. Did it several times, just to be sure, before I told her the punchline. You are right, she definitely felt a difference in my strength with the fingers pointing at each other. Very interesting. I appreciate that example.

I suspect it is difficult or impossible to describe this kind of thing within actual martial context, without working together face-to-face. Seems like the variations and subtleties would be too great to describe without actually being there, working hands-on.

Exactly, thus my comment about the ridulcousness of video study. Even looking at the best 'master' on video will not reveal what he is doing. Your observations are limited by your lack of knowledge, at best. To understand in martial context is to have knowledge of the physical dynamics of human interaction. No small feat.

I have heard it said that your kicking techniques can be more powerful if you hold your hands open and relaxed (fingers together, slightly cupped for safety), instead of in a fist.

If it was only as simple as relaxing your hands.

If you agree with this assessment, ...

I don't, and it would be too simplistic and not take into consideration the rest of the body mechanics. Even dismissing everything else, the answer is still no.

"The key to structural integrity in human anatomy is resistence." - Ron Chapél

 

[Atlanta-Kenpo]

Doc,

Come on, you mean to tell me that you can't become a black belt from learning on a video? I have got this friend and he worked his way up to a 4th degree black.
HEHEHEHEHE
Just kidding. I completely agree with you.

 

[Doc]

Doc,

Come on, you mean to tell me that you can't become a black belt from learning on a video? I have got this friend and he worked his way up to a 4th degree black.
HEHEHEHEHE
Just kidding. I completely agree with you.

Well sir there is a great misunderstanding with regard to these money making video study courses. While you may earn your black via video correspondence, if you read the small print, it emphatically states you will only be capable of defending your self in 'video confrontations.' I have no objections to this, and find it perfectly reasonable.

 

[Ray]

While you may earn your black via video correspondence, if you read the small print, it emphatically states you will only be capable of defending your self in 'video confrontations.'

Crap, now I have to have Geraldo tagging along everywhere I go in case I get attacked.

 

[Doc]

Crap, now I have to have Geraldo tagging along everywhere I go in case I get attacked.

Yes, and he won't help you - (But I heard he will hand your attacker a weapon to enhance the footage)

 

[KenpoDave]

Well sir there is a great misunderstanding with regard to these money making video study courses. While you may earn your black via video correspondence, if you read the small print, it emphatically states you will only be capable of defending your self in 'video confrontations.' I have no objections to this, and find it perfectly reasonable.

I am undefeated on every television show I have ever watched.

 

[Doc]

I am undefeated on every television show I have ever watched.

I got 'zapped' with some ray on the Twight Zone" once.

 

[Kenpobuff]

Thanks "D" and Doc! Great response. Kinda how I thought knowledge was handed down back then, thanks for confirming.

Steve