Basics of Kenpo

[Touch Of Death]

Ok I'll list the instructors that ive had over the years so that I don't seem "afraid": Matt David (sterling Peacock), Skip Hancock, Damon Tong, Tehuro Chinen, Kimo Fiera , and Shihan (somthing or other in Everet WA). I currently train with Damon Tong but am a direct Skip Hancock student. Sorry for seeming so elusive.
If you are so above all those vid series out there, why don't you release your own series. I would love to check out a pirated copy.

 

[cdhall]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
I would love to check out a pirated copy.

Touch 'O' Death:

You know, a little etiquette would go a long way.

Clyde and I have had a disagreement on this very same thread by the way and it was handled rather well. You could learn from it. Your attitude and your logic is deplorable.

I'm sure, at least I hope, Mr. Hancock would not appreciate your attitude. I'm sure he (at least) would be interested to hear about your video pirating habits. I'm sure he would also be amazed at your inability to construct a logical train of thought.

For example:

Mr. Hancock does not have 1 school here in Austin, Texas. I don't think he has 1 school in Texas anywhere but I could be wrong. According to your "logic" he is not worthy to have a school here and is only relevant to people in Louisiana or Montana or wherever you guys are.

Of course that is B.S. In reality it only means that he does not have a school here, much as Mr. Tatum apparently does not have one in Louisiana.

I bet there is not one charging rhinoceros in Louisiana either, does this also mean that they do not exist? Or that they are ineffective?

While looking at the Kenpo 2000 website I found this list:
KENPO 2000 is:
Do
Learn
Train
Practice
Be kind
Stand up for what is right and wrong
Be honest
Be fit: Spiritually, Perceptually, Mentally, Emotionally, and Physically
Help the less fortunate

Tell me, are you being Kinkd, being honest or helping the less fortunate here on MartialTalk where you are very purposefully NOT engaging in "friendly discussion of the Martial Arts?"

And tell me as well do you go up to 6th Degree Black Belts at Tournament and seminars and talk to them this way or do you only behave like this on the internet?

You need to concede that you have degenerated into a name-calling contest and see if you can find someone to show you how to behave. If this keeps up I will email Mr. Hancock myself and ask him if this is how he expects to see his students behave in public.
:soapbox:

 

[Michael Billings]

Orig Posted by TOD

"unusefull ( not useless )"

I think I was a 2nd or 3rd Black when I met Skip Hancock, and done several seminars with him over the past 15 years. He is an excellent writer and "organizer". The UKS students really enjoyed his guest appearance at one of our camps (my former Association.)

He wrote the current Technique Manuals that were being prepared at the time of Mr. Parker's death. They went out for feedback, then back to Mr. Parker for final revision. Skip has a lot of talent and an exceptional understanding of Motion and the "families" of techniques, including Master Key Moves, and Master Key Techniques.

I am prefacing this just so you know I know where you are coming from.

He does teach differently from Clyde, myself, and most other EPAK black belts. However, He would be the last one to say that any motiion, found within the techniques are useless. If you follow his curriculum to the bitter end, ALL of the techniques are there, in their appropriate family catagory, as he designed. I am not defending this, I have just seen the written material. I cannot imagine him saying any movement is unuseful if executed correctly with proper utilization of Principles, Concepts, and Theories of Motion.

He may not have shared the entire system with you yet, but it is all there. You are training in other things elsewhere obviously, so put into perspective, that Mr. Parker cut the chaff, several times. What he left us with he considered useful, as do we.

Clyde is not a walking advertisement for Kenpo, any more than any of the rest of us advocated for what we beleive ... in the martial art's context. Look at posts by yourself, OFK, etc. Everyone has some type of agenda. This is not a bad thing. Sometimes that agenda is just to learn, or get one new idea a day, for other's it is to teach, or spread their idea of what Kenpo is, other's still get a vicareous emotional charge from the dialogue engaged in on forums, etc.

Put it in perspective; you know when you make a statement that you will elicit a response from Clyde, myself, Robert, etc. Likewise, we know the probable response from you. Does that stop either of us from making the response? Obviously not. What secondary gain are we getting from engaging in this dialogue? Now that is a more interesting question and varies from individual to individual.

Sic gloria transit Kenpo

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

My Agenda, as with many others here is to promote Kenpo. I've stated before that I'm worse than any door-darkening Jehova's Witness when it comes to doing Kenpo. My sole and true objective is to teach Kenpo well and I can't stand to see it done badly. I still believe everything is in the system, I've found alot of it, but there's much more discovery ahead for me. I see no reason to change or delete the techniques, forms, or sets because I've found the value in them, and I didn't at one time. I thought the sets and forms were a joke we didn't need. My eyes were opened by a great instructor and tons of students that needed those forms and sets to make them complete. I still can't stand Form VII, but over time I'm sure I'll find the value of it for either me or my students, so I refuse to throw it out on that basis. I have no reason to go outside the system to learn what already exists, though I used to think that as well, and cross-trained in other arts when I had no need to, I just thought I did. Times and attitudes change the more knowledge you have, I know, I'm a prime example of it.



Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[Michael Billings]

And can I have an "Amen"?

 

[cdhall]

Originally posted by Michael Billings
And can I have an "Amen"?

Yes, I was going to say that I think that might be the best post on this entire website. So now that you mention it I'll say it now.
:asian:

 

[jeffkyle]

Amen brother!

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by cdhall
Touch 'O' Death:

You know, a little etiquette would go a long way.

Clyde and I have had a disagreement on this very same thread by the way and it was handled rather well. You could learn from it. Your attitude and your logic is deplorable.

I'm sure, at least I hope, Mr. Hancock would not appreciate your attitude. I'm sure he (at least) would be interested to hear about your video pirating habits. I'm sure he would also be amazed at your inability to construct a logical train of thought.

For example:

Mr. Hancock does not have 1 school here in Austin, Texas. I don't think he has 1 school in Texas anywhere but I could be wrong. According to your "logic" he is not worthy to have a school here and is only relevant to people in Louisiana or Montana or wherever you guys are.

Of course that is B.S. In reality it only means that he does not have a school here, much as Mr. Tatum apparently does not have one in Louisiana.

I bet there is not one charging rhinoceros in Louisiana either, does this also mean that they do not exist? Or that they are ineffective?

While looking at the Kenpo 2000 website I found this list:
KENPO 2000 is:
Do
Learn
Train
Practice
Be kind
Stand up for what is right and wrong
Be honest
Be fit: Spiritually, Perceptually, Mentally, Emotionally, and Physically
Help the less fortunate

Tell me, are you being Kinkd, being honest or helping the less fortunate here on MartialTalk where you are very purposefully NOT engaging in "friendly discussion of the Martial Arts?"

And tell me as well do you go up to 6th Degree Black Belts at Tournament and seminars and talk to them this way or do you only behave like this on the internet?

You need to concede that you have degenerated into a name-calling contest and see if you can find someone to show you how to behave. If this keeps up I will email Mr. Hancock myself and ask him if this is how he expects to see his students behave in public.
:soapbox:

I don't remember calling any one any names. Could you give an example. I was trying to illistrate that I propbably wouldn't get a chance to see these videos that his instructor put out because you actualy have to buy them and I can't even afford to pay attention. If you need to tell my instructor I'm a vid pirate you go boy. I don't own any pirated vids though. I am expressing my own opinions here and in no way atribute my thoughts to Skip or any one. Lastly I should be able to debate with any one on any topic and if a person should attack me physically, even if I say it to their face, that person should be in prison not runnig a Karate school teaching children to solve arguments with their fists; however, if you need to call my intructor or what ever it is you are gonna do, go for it. Maybe he will fire me... Oh yea, I DON'T WORK FOR HIM! now if you could provide those names I called people I will personal write them an appology. Thank you for your time.
respectfully,

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
Ok I'll list the instructors that ive had over the years so that I don't seem "afraid": Matt David (sterling Peacock), Skip Hancock, Damon Tong, Tehuro Chinen, Kimo Fiera , and Shihan (somthing or other in Everet WA). I currently train with Damon Tong but am a direct Skip Hancock student. Sorry for seeming so elusive.
If you are so above all those vid series out there, why don't you release your own series. I would love to check out a pirated copy.

Just FYI, the videos I watched were not pirated, they were purchased at an exhorbitant price. The Form V video I've seen of Mr. Hancock's is of horrible quality. It looks like a third generation clone, The video is horrible and the sound is barely audible but he still want $49 for it. I couldn't make heads or tails of what he was doing or saying so I couldn't say if it was any good. The stick videos I saw were of a much better production value but the material was boring. The videos I watched of Huk Planas were from KenpoJoe's vault and they were of him doing seminars. They weren't bad but the material was boring for me as well. If they have value to you, great, they just don't for me.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[arnisador]

It seems much of this could be taken to e-mail--or at least out of the Kenpo Technical Forum.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by arnisador
It seems much of this could be taken to e-mail--or at least out of the Kenpo Technical Forum.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

So how would this not be technical discussing Kenpo and it's instructors?

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[Touch Of Death]

Since I was the camera man on the long 5 video I would tend to agree with you on the "quality" thing. I didn't have the right switch flipped on the camera. The forms long and short five were well performed though and broken down into the individual techs in spite of my efforts; so , I guess you can blame that one on me.


I am deeply sorry for all the names I called you but I don't remeber typing them on the computer(ha ha). I was JOKING about that pirate thing for gods sake and I hope you don't think I'm activly involved in illeagaly obtaining Tatum tapes... maybe yours though.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo
So how would this not be technical discussing Kenpo and it's instructors?

Per this post, suggested topics for this forum are:
Kenpo/Kempo forms, techniques, concepts, training drills and theory.

Instructors might fit better in Kenpo-General. However, I was referring more to the discussion of possible video piracy.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
Since I was the camera man on the long 5 video I would tend to agree with you on the "quality" thing. I didn't have the right switch flipped on the camera. The forms long and short five were well performed though and broken down into the individual techs in spite of my efforts; so , I guess you can blame that one on me.


I am deeply sorry for all the names I called you but I don't remeber typing them on the computer(ha ha). I was JOKING about that pirate thing for gods sake and I hope you don't think I'm activly involved in illeagaly obtaining Tatum tapes... maybe yours though.

Then I must have seen you in one of the videos, I'll have to look for you next time I watch the tape.

If you manage to get a copy of the tapes I did, they're crap. I made an inexpensive set of tapes for my students to learn the techs., sets, and forms and never put them on the open market. If you can find a copy of one good luck, since I closed my studio, most ended up in a closet somewhere, at a thrift store or swap meet LOL. I'm thinking about another set much more professionally done, concerning reversals, enhancements, and using the equation formula to maximize the efficiency of your techniques. Look for it on the shelves soon.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[Atlanta-Kenpo]

I have been sitting back reading much more then writting since I started martialtalk.com.

Before I get on my soap box let me first just say that I have learned quit a bit from the post's that many of you have written and your knowledge and understanding of the rules and principles of this system is AWSOME. However, sadly I have only seen a few of you conduct yourselve's like a ranking black belt should. Mr C is a great example of how twe should conduct ourselves and we should all thank him for his leadership and example

I can not beleave that I have read that someone could not learn from any well respected first generation Ed Parker black belt. If you think you are that good and know that much then maybe you all should be a 10th's. I don't think that 10 or 20 more would do any more harm do you.

I use to think like many of you and have the same trivial debates about techniques and organizations. However, I woke up and happened to see that EPAK or any other martial art is about becomming the best PERSON that you can be through martial arts training.

I have never meet Mr Parker but one of the things that I have heard and read from thoses who have spent time with him was that he was a very respectful, loving and caring person to everyone no matter what the thought of him or his beloved system. Not only was he a AWSOME example for us as a Kenpo Master but he was also a great example for us to follow on conducting ourselves.

I am no expert on EPAK and for that matter I am having a hard enough time being the best person that I can be. Yet, it seems to me that if you look around and observe you will see so much bull ****. All this ego crap has caused the fractured community that we now have.

We have disease, crime, war and lets not forget about terroist trying to kill us.

So, I ask you all. Must we have all this ego and in the long run/big picture what does any of this arguing get us?

:soapbox:
:asian:

 

[ikenpo]

I'm thinking about another set much more professionally done, concerning reversals, enhancements, and using the equation formula to maximize the efficiency of your techniques. Look for it on the shelves soon.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde [/B]

Well,

With the inside track to Tim Bulot your vids should come out excellent. With his skills he could even make a desert yeti look good..lol, and you'll have both and Mr. Tatum's experience and a school full of great uki's. Also, it's about time we get to talk about someone else getting beat up on camera besides you.

jb:asian:

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by jbkenpo
Well,

With the inside track to Tim Bulot your vids should come out excellent. With his skills he could even make a desert yeti look good..lol, and you'll have both and Mr. Tatum's experience and a school full of great uki's. Also, it's about time we get to talk about someone else getting beat up on camera besides you.

jb:asian:

But it just ain't fun if I don't get beat on so I have to make sure someone is really going at it to make it real. A committed defense is just as important as a committed attack when it comes to reversals baby LOL. But remember, it's just a thought right now, don't know if I'll ever get it off the ground.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by Atlanta-Kenpo
I have been sitting back reading much more then writting since I started martialtalk.com.

Before I get on my soap box let me first just say that I have learned quit a bit from the post's that many of you have written and your knowledge and understanding of the rules and principles of this system is AWSOME. However, sadly I have only seen a few of you conduct yourselve's like a ranking black belt should. Mr C is a great example of how twe should conduct ourselves and we should all thank him for his leadership and example

I can not beleave that I have read that someone could not learn from any well respected first generation Ed Parker black belt. If you think you are that good and know that much then maybe you all should be a 10th's. I don't think that 10 or 20 more would do any more harm do you.

I use to think like many of you and have the same trivial debates about techniques and organizations. However, I woke up and happened to see that EPAK or any other martial art is about becomming the best PERSON that you can be through martial arts training.

I have never meet Mr Parker but one of the things that I have heard and read from thoses who have spent time with him was that he was a very respectful, loving and caring person to everyone no matter what the thought of him or his beloved system. Not only was he a AWSOME example for us as a Kenpo Master but he was also a great example for us to follow on conducting ourselves.

I am no expert on EPAK and for that matter I am having a hard enough time being the best person that I can be. Yet, it seems to me that if you look around and observe you will see so much bull ****. All this ego crap has caused the fractured community that we now have.

We have disease, crime, war and lets not forget about terroist trying to kill us.

So, I ask you all. Must we have all this ego and in the long run/big picture what does any of this arguing get us?

:soapbox:
:asian:

1) Trust me, Mr. C is the last person to be an example of ethics, hell, I'm not either.

2) I don't want to put on as many degrees as my instructor, I'm not that good yet, but one day I may be.

3)Senior in rank does not mean senior in knowledge. Take Steve Spry for example. Being well respected and first generation doesn't make you any more knowledgeable either.

4)If you haven't trained with me, don't underestimate the knowledge I have, I might surprise you as I have lots of folks.

5)Yep, I've got an ego, and I'm the best person I can be right now, and I'm getting better every day.

6)I am an expert in the EPAK curriculum, and I want to know more about it every day.


Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[Touch Of Death]

Well first of all, if I debate somthing with someone I not only learn from the guy I'm talking to but then sombody like Robert will bury my "opponent" with a mountain of evidence to support my claim. Sometimes he turns it on me and refutes my claim.Either way I come away from the whole experience with food for thought. Martial artist without egos... now thats an oxy-moron. Thats right up there with honest polititions and hookers with a heart of gold. All three are figments of your imagination. Sure we all learn to tone it down, some of us more than others. As for Clyde, I feel his beliefs can be a little over the line sometimes and we owe it to him to see if we can chase him back. I'm almost never successfull but I feel I won a small victory by getting him to admit that a school that teaches more techs than his may not be better than his. This negates his prior argument about his school being better than schools with less techs; so, as I've stated, its a small victory. As for people thinking that I'm overstepping my bounds debating with sixth degrees, I suppose they wouln't even engage me in conversation if it bothered them so much. It would bother some I admit but they aren't on this forum are they?

 

[rmcrobertson]

The problem is that fundamentally the premises on which these arguments are being conducted are dead-end, sterile cliches. We can't figure out what we want to figure out, because of Mr. Parker's cliche about, "I'd rather have one technique that works than an hundred that don't," being taken as something more than the cheap homily it was meant to be.

And before anybody jumps down my throat, what is NOT cheap, dead-end cliche is the kenpo system, its concepts, its principles. Any saying was just a saying, just an easy way to communicate, not Holy Writ. And it was never meant to be anything more, I hope.

In other words, we're stuck because of the way we've got the argument set up.

Here's one way out: how do you teach students to look beyond the sayings, and beyond the necessary techniques, sets and forms?

Thanks,