Bad wallstreet occupyer behavior

[Grenadier]

There's a local copycat group, called "Occupy Birmingham" that's putting up a feeble protest here as well. I strolled out to 5 Points for a lunch break, and saw a handful of dirty babbling individuals who can't even keep a coherent thought, except to complain about "the big man holding us down!"

What's even funnier, is that any time I've asked them why they are protesting, none of them can give the same reason, except for bleating the same line about how wealth must be redistributed.

They've left a lot of trash at their meeting place from yesterday in the nearby park, and much of it never made it to the garbage cans. I felt sorry for the sanitation worker who had to pick up after those lazy slackers.

So far, for a group that has claimed to be environmentally friendly, they are anything but that.

My advice to them is this: If you want to protest and get your message out there, then at least HAVE a coherent message that rings true with the people. When a dozen of your minions give a dozen widely differing messages on what they do, and when they behave like literring animals, your message isn't going to be one that the people sympathize with in any way.

I'm in the process of making a sign that says "Stop stinking up my city!" and will flash it in front of them as I head to my car after work is over.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

And if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

All of the violence associated with this group wadded up into a ball and put in one place wouldn't account for 20 minutes in a moderately bad neighborhood.

Speaking of which, I have been reading with interest the plan to "Occupy Detroit" in the next week or so. Right downtown. At night. I think they might be in for a surprise there. The bangers will take everything they own and leave them floating in the Detroit River.

I read one guy eagerly posting on Twitter about how they were going to 'occupy' the shut down auto factories and start producing cars again. Have they even been to Detroit?

 

[Empty Hands]

Speaking of which, I have been reading with interest the plan to "Occupy Detroit" in the next week or so. Right downtown. At night. I think they might be in for a surprise there. The bangers will take everything they own and leave them floating in the Detroit River.

I read one guy eagerly posting on Twitter about how they were going to 'occupy' the shut down auto factories and start producing cars again. Have they even been to Detroit?

Now that's pretty funny.

Separately, I thought downtown was more or less deserted? From what I've read most of the violence is in the city surrounding downtown.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Now that's pretty funny.

Separately, I thought downtown was more or less deserted? From what I've read most of the violence is in the city surrounding downtown.

The very heart of downtown is perfectly safe in the daytime, more or less deserted at night except for the various casinos and sports arenas. And they're talking about 'occupying" Hart Plaza, right on the river.

However, the gangsters are like sharks; they smell blood in the water and they will show up en masse. Detroit has so much violence at the moment that even with Detroit once again the murder capital of the USA, the police fear that many homicides go unreported; the people are just tired of calling 911 and having no one show up.

http://detnews.com/article/20090128...goes-on-around-body-found-in-vacant-warehouse

Yeah, it's like that.

 

[Makalakumu]

WTF!!!

are you seriously trying to claim that the military is ruining the country???

****ing seriously?

Yup. The wellfare and warfare state go hand in hand, they both steal from the unborn, selling a portion of their labor into bondage without their consent, and they erode the moral fabric of society.

The Left has propaganda that denies this about the wellfare state.
The Right has propaganda that denies this about the warefare state.

Libertarians recognize that both of these institutions are immoral and that they need to be severely curbed.

That's the kind of message I'm bringing to these gatherings.

 

[Empty Hands]

But I read their Twitter feeds, and it's all this violent rhetoric; not the stuff being reported on the news. Maybe it's just words; but it frightens and angers me.

I don't doubt it. People say a lot of stupid things. Particularly stupid or violent people. And particularly on the Internet. The difficulty in interpretation though is in extrapolating the words or even actions of a few or even a few hundred onto a large group of many thousands, and a nation of over 300 million people. Archimedes said "give me a lever large enough and I will move the world." How large a lever does one guy ******** on a police car or 20 people shoving security guards or 200 people making violent comments on the internet make? I would argue a small one indeed.

I also have a very negative memory of the 1960's in terms of social unrest. It may have been the 'Summer of Love' in San Francisco, but in the Midwest, protesters were occupying government and school buildings, building and setting off bombs, and rioting.

I wasn't alive then, but I know of it. I don't doubt that it was very unfair to people like yourself. For all that today's conservatives like BillC love to make hay out of the violence of the left wing in the 60's, an important fact to keep in mind is that violence was being perpetrated the other way in some situations for centuries. The difference? You weren't exposed to it, it was out of your sight. You weren't the target of the Klan. You weren't prevented from voting. And so forth. Not that that justifies anything - you weren't responsible. You shouldn't have been targeted. But the violence in the 60's didn't come from nowhere. It was a response brewed over decades and centuries previously.

That also explains in part why we are unlikely to see a flash over into widespread violence today. The arc of the universe has been bending towards justice since then, and we don't have the tinderbox we used to.

Now since 2001, we're heroes again, right? Except yeah, not so much when it comes to Occupy Wall Street. They 'speak for us' but they actually hate us if you scratch the surface.

Again, I don't doubt that describes some. Even many. How does that translate into the movement and the nation as a whole though?

It can be hard to separate the people involved from the injustices seen. Our military has been used in immoral and unjust ways. It's hard for some people to separate that from the individual service members themselves. For my part, I neither lionize nor despise service members. They do a difficult and dangerous and sometimes necessary job, and I appreciate them for that. I would shake a Marine's hand and thank him for this service, I would never spit on them or call them names. I'm not going to fall all over myself though like some people think is necessary. I don't worship the military. Or law enforcement. That's an ugly and dangerous path too.

 

[Big Don]

Yup. The wellfare and warfare state go hand in hand, they both steal from the unborn, selling a portion of their labor into bondage without their consent, and they erode the moral fabric of society.

The Left has propaganda that denies this about the wellfare state.
The Right has propaganda that denies this about the warefare state.

Libertarians recognize that both of these institutions are immoral and that they need to be severely curbed.

That's the kind of message I'm bringing to these gatherings.

Then maybe you deserve a beating...
BTW, what warfare state?

 

[Twin Fist]

how dare you.....

Yup. The wellfare and warfare state go hand in hand, they both steal from the unborn, selling a portion of their labor into bondage without their consent, and they erode the moral fabric of society.

The Left has propaganda that denies this about the wellfare state.
The Right has propaganda that denies this about the warefare state.

Libertarians recognize that both of these institutions are immoral and that they need to be severely curbed.

That's the kind of message I'm bringing to these gatherings.

 

[Flying Crane]

Yup. The wellfare and warfare state go hand in hand, they both steal from the unborn, selling a portion of their labor into bondage without their consent, and they erode the moral fabric of society.

The Left has propaganda that denies this about the wellfare state.
The Right has propaganda that denies this about the warefare state.

Libertarians recognize that both of these institutions are immoral and that they need to be severely curbed.

That's the kind of message I'm bringing to these gatherings.

I gotta agree with you here. The military has been mis-used and abused for quite a few years now. Honestly, I feel sorry for the service members who have been so grossly abused by the government.

It can be hard to separate the people involved from the injustices seen. Our military has been used in immoral and unjust ways. It's hard for some people to separate that from the individual service members themselves. For my part, I neither lionize nor despise service members. They do a difficult and dangerous and sometimes necessary job, and I appreciate them for that. I would shake a Marine's hand and thank him for this service, I would never spit on them or call them names. I'm not going to fall all over myself though like some people think is necessary. I don't worship the military. Or law enforcement. That's an ugly and dangerous path too.

For my part, I don't see military service as a reason to automatically extend respect to an individual. Respect has to be earned and I give respect based on what kind of person someone shows him/herself to be. I am sure many service personnel are well worthy of respect. Others are complete a-holes and don't deserve any respect from anyone. Just like any subset of the population.

But if someone says in essence, "Hey, I'm a serviceman, respect me!" well, no. Show me you are a person deserving respect, and I'll give you respect.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Anyone else think it's highly unusual for Bill, John and I to be pretty much in agreement on an issue? Just sayin.....

 

[WC_lun]

Rebellion and armed actions are pretty labor intensive, not to mention very risky to person's health. Seems if so many of these people are as lazy and apethetic as you believe, you have absolutly nothing to worry about.

So far the violence associated with these protest has been minimal. It really does look like for the most part they have no interest in rioting or violence. It also looks like the media is using what little they do find to prop up stories in order to create more fear. I guess that is only an issue when it is done against people you agree with.

Disagree with as much as you want of anything said by anyone involved OWS. However, when you resort to name calling and stereotypes in place of solid arguement, your opposition becomes watered down to the point of ridiculousness. Like it or not, these people have the right to protest. Fight thier messages, not set up some straw men in order to scare the ignorant.

 

[Twin Fist]

putting on the uniform and saying "i got it, you can relax tonight, i will keep you safe"

that right there earns that respect

and if you wont give it? that says a lot about you

But if someone says in essence, "Hey, I'm a serviceman, respect me!" well, no. Show me you are a person deserving respect, and I'll give you respect.

 

[Empty Hands]

Hey BillC, can you tell me why this:

is perfectly safe, patriotic, and wholesome free speech, while this:

is a violent and dangerous mob ready to riot and overthrow the government at a moment's notice?

It really is Team Blue vs. Team Red on these threads.

 

[Makalakumu]

Anyone else think it's highly unusual for Bill, John and I to be pretty much in agreement on an issue? Just sayin.....

Well, this is a MAJOR issue in these protests. When the largest portion of the Federal budget (and a large slice of the debt pie) is related to military spending, it's got to be addressed. IMO, we can't keep spending over a trillion per year on defense, support 700 military bases abroad, and commit all kinds of obscene atrocities all over the world and hope to remain free and prosperous. The military industrial complex is so big that it drives foreign policy. It is a self licking ice cream cone...it creates the reason for it's own existence. We have to address this and we MUST wade our way through the propaganda to do this.

The bottom line is that military service has very little to do with national defense. The string pullers are multinational corporations and banks who use the "volunteers" to project power (aka intimidate) and nation build (take out governments not favorable). Cutting the budget and becoming freer means that we need to lay the smack down on the flag waving propaganda that separates the fantasy from reality.

We will be so much freer and so much more prosperous as a country when we do this. It's a key step in actually solving many of the crucial problems our country faces.

 

[Twin Fist]

maybe you ought to spend some time in the military before you go flappin your pie hole about it

 

[Makalakumu]

That's not going to help at all. We need to change directions and slay sacred cows. Big time.

Sent from my Eris using Tapatalk

 

[Twin Fist]

you are just words on a screen, you dont matter at all

 

[Sukerkin]

Calmly gentlemen, please. Emotive issues cause emotive outbursts, particularly amongst posters that 'know' each other but it is not rational, in what is supposed to be a discussion forum, to derail things with personal abuse.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

So, what should all those out of work soldiers do for a living then?
What about all the defense contractors who will have to downsize and shut down?
What will all their employees do once they are also out of work?
What about the loss of tax revenues as those companies close up or scale back, and plants go idle, and land is abandoned?

Military spending is about 25% of the budget in 2011.

1. $928.5 billion in defense spending
2. $898 billion in health care expenditures
3. $787.6 billion in pensions
4. $464.6 billion in welfare spending
5. $250.7 billion on interest payments
6. $151.4 billion in other spending including basic research
7. $140.9 billion for education
8. $104.2 billion for transportation
9. $57.3 billion in protective services such as police, fire, law courts
10. $29 billion in general government expenses
    

 

[Makalakumu]

So, what should all those out of work soldiers do for a living then?
What about all the defense contractors who will have to downsize and shut down?
What will all their employees do once they are also out of work?
What about the loss of tax revenues as those companies close up or scale back, and plants go idle, and land is abandoned?

How about stop killing and polluting for starters...

Private industry will take over and replace them with productive activities.

Here's another graph for your displeasure...

View attachment $pieFY09.gif

It all depends on what you are counting. I think of the two businesses I run along side being employed for another and I KNOW that this wasted money could be put to peaceful and productive use in my community for the betterment of myself and my community through the pursuance of my self interest.

This is only one half of the coin though. The Wellfare state must also be tackled.