Bad instructor. What to do????

[Tez3]

I agree there are reasons a guest instructor might be there to check things out. But correcting large numbers of things in a single day isn't likely to have any positive effect when the regular instructor will be back teaching that class next time. Those corrections - if the point was to check out the instructor - should be given to the instructor or CI, or to someone in the organization.

As for him being newly graded, the oh-so-stiff belt that has to be bent into a knot, rather than tied, usually gives that away.

He may not have just been at that session, the OP only saw him at his son's. The guest instructor may be the 'secret shopper' of that organisation.

Our belts were never stiff as we softened them before tying, took a while rolling and unrolling them as well as 'scrunching' them but nobody wants a stiff belt! It's not cool!

 

[dvcochran]

it's not awkwardness as in a social faux pas but the awkwardness where people are paying money for instruction and one of those instructors is clearly wrong. If it's the senior instructor he should be told, no? If it's the class instructor then the class will have to be retaught.

There may be depth here we are not appreciating. What if the senior instructor is aware of the new instructors weaknesses in teaching and is trying to help him learn how to teach better and how to deal with the adversity of dealing with upset parents?

 

[JR 137]

Yea, if they were not kids I would have a hard time calling that sparring. I hate a body shot like that at any age being called a point, Especially when they have gear on.

I have been knocked out WITH headgear on and ribs broken WITH a hogu on so I am a big, big proponent of wearing sparring gear. It was bad enough when I was wearing them. Makes things much, much more realistic.

I don't know if this was your case, but sometimes people tend to hit and kick harder than they should when they see that their sparring partner wears gear. The gear gives the feeling that now you can kick and punch as hard has you want your sparring partner will be ok.

It's sort of like seeing a person wearing a red man suit. When you see that, you don't think; hit and kick softer.

It just occurred to me, that if the student is getting feedback on their strikes by how their sparring partner reacts, then that may encourage them to hit harder when they see that uncomfortable look that we all get after someone has landed a decent shot. It doesn't have to be a death blow type power shot, but it only has to be solid enough where you can see that your partner doesn't like it. Land a good face shot even a soft one without gear and you'll see your opponent dislike it. Hit too hard and your opponent's face turns into the "don't hit me that hard response"

The headgear isn’t really designed to eliminate concussions. Frankly, any headgear, football helmets included, doesn’t do much to protect from them. If you read the disclaimer/warning labels on them, you’ll see what I mean. The best they can do is lessen the impact so the trauma isn’t as severe.

It’s like the motorcycle helmet laws. I hate to say it, but helmets on a motorcycle don’t do more than protect your head if you’re stopped at a stoplight and fall over. Or keep your head from getting lumped up if you get hit by a stone in the road. I’m not a motorcycle guy, so this isn’t some biased rant.

A motorcycle or football helmet is going to keep your skull from getting cracked or your scalp from getting cut. Studies show the rate of trauma has gone down a good amount, but let’s be serious - people are still getting knock out cold and dying from head trauma all the time while wearing appropriate helmets and wearing them correctly.

Concussions come from your brain slamming against your skull. That’s going to happen no matter what you’re wearing. A helmet may absorb some of the energy so it doesn’t slam as hard. The foam ones don’t absorb very much energy. IMO all they’re good for is not cracking your skull if your head hits the floor.

As far as how hard people tend to hit with and without gear on, I can only offer some personal insight...

My previous school started out as bare knuckle. About a year or two into it, we mandated by our organization to wear sparring gear - head, hands and feet. Chest protectors optional. My sensei had us wear it most days, but still held “bare knuckle Friday” for anyone who wanted to go. Those of us who came through before the gear mandate hit a lot harder with gear on. All I can say is my mentality was I can hit harder now that we’re padded up. Pretty stupid if you ask me.

I had 20 rounds of sparring using knockdown rules in my 1st dan test. We were wearing head, foot and hand gear. I honestly would’ve rathered going bare knuckle. I wouldn’t have been hit as hard.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

He may not have just been at that session, the OP only saw him at his son's. The guest instructor may be the 'secret shopper' of that organisation.

Again, not disputing any of that. But he taught a single day for that class (whether he taught others doesn't affect that). So he isn't going to be able to affect wholesale change by a single session of instruction to students - his effort (assuming that's the situation) will be to better effect if he addresses the issue where it lies: with the instructor. If I had instructors teaching under me, and went to one of their classes and found fundamental errors, I can't fix those with the students in a single day. If I'm not going to be teaching there on a regular basis, the only way I can fix those is to help the instructor.

Our belts were never stiff as we softened them before tying, took a while rolling and unrolling them as well as 'scrunching' them but nobody wants a stiff belt! It's not cool!

We never got around to doing that. We just mocked the new belt (not the wearer - the actual belt) for not knowing its job properly. And we warned other students of the safety hazard if the belt's ends stuck out: "Careful, you'll put an eye out with that thing."

 

[Yokozuna514]

I had 20 rounds of sparring using knockdown rules in my 1st dan test. We were wearing head, foot and hand gear. I honestly would’ve rathered going bare knuckle. I wouldn’t have been hit as hard.

Osu, as another bare knuckler I can appreciate preferring not to wear sparring gear (especially head gear). Much more comfortable without it and fortunately I am at a school that gives us the option to spar without gear. In terms of hitting harder, I am not sure if we do that (especially without gear). It is an unwritten rule at our dojo that two people can ramp up the intensity as long as they BOTH want to train at that level and agree to go harder BEFORE the session begins. I am sure it is the same at your dojo, with folks gravitating to others that prefer a higher degree of contact if that is what you are looking for when sparring. This is not to say, we also do not do a lot of controlled contact sparring especially when the size and weight discrepancy is large. Ultimately, we don't want people to get injured when sparring so they have to stop training to heal. That is counterproductive and helps no one in the end.

 

[FriedRice]

I think BJJ and other wrestlers have more fight in them than what is found at Karate,TKD, and Kung Fu schools. You aren't going to have many "spirit of the warrior" students in these school. You would be fortunate to have 5 or 6 that took it serious enough to see martial arts as a fighting tool.

This is the norm. None of these punches and kicks is going to knock the wind out of their opponent. As light as it is I'm not even sure why they are wearing chest protectors.

I don't know about the any where else but in the US, I think parents try to protect their child too much. My opinion is that it's better for a child to experience getting the wind knocked out of them, just so they know how to deal with it.

Interesting. I'm not just trying to argue, but I'm actually against little kids getting cracked in the head for sports & combat sports and I'm very protective of the little kids I teach. Something like this video is OK with me, once in a while, but not harder....b/c their brains are still sloshing around and getting jolted inside their skulls....smacking around. Now if their parents allows this for them when they're 15 or 16, then I'll coach them to fight full contact. Or if some kid is getting bullied so bad to the point of getting bad grades, resorting to drugs, suicide or esp. kids living in rough neighborhoods, etc....then yea let's get them in Fighter's training. But I live in a wealthy suburbs where kids are better off doing good in school & going to college than prize fighting like in Thailand at age 6, racking up 300-400 fights and retiring at 40.

And this is why I'm against little kids strutting around with Black Belts. It devalues that aura thingy about being a BB in anything. Like these BJJ kids in competition team....they're tough for being kids.....but they usually also cry like little girls when another kid's hand snaps loose from a grip and smacks them in the face, accidentally.....like the world was going to end or something....right in the middle of a competition. It's kind of funny. I appreciate you thinking they're that tough & hardy though, and in certain aspects they are.....but still not BB worthy, which I feel that it's suiting that that's why in BJJ, they still only get a Blue belt at 16, even after all that training and 2000 sq/ft full of medals.

 

[Martial D]

So basically your upset because someone gave your kid advice on how to improve...did you believe he was perfect and because he's a black belt he knows everything?

Also he shouted at kids misbehaving...well so he should itll teach them to pay attention.

Ive read nothing that sounds like a bad instructor. Are you its him.thats the problem?

That's how I read it as well. It sounds to me like the guest instructor was trying to make the kid better, and keep discipline in the dojo.

If your flaws aren't pointed out how can you improve them? If you are being mollycoddled how can you gain discipline?

 

[JR 137]

Osu, as another bare knuckler I can appreciate preferring not to wear sparring gear (especially head gear). Much more comfortable without it and fortunately I am at a school that gives us the option to spar without gear. In terms of hitting harder, I am not sure if we do that (especially without gear). It is an unwritten rule at our dojo that two people can ramp up the intensity as long as they BOTH want to train at that level and agree to go harder BEFORE the session begins. I am sure it is the same at your dojo, with folks gravitating to others that prefer a higher degree of contact if that is what you are looking for when sparring. This is not to say, we also do not do a lot of controlled contact sparring especially when the size and weight discrepancy is large. Ultimately, we don't want people to get injured when sparring so they have to stop training to heal. That is counterproductive and helps no one in the end.

That was my Kyokushin offshoot days. I’m in Seido Juku now; Tadashi Nakamura’s organization if you’re not familiar. We wear sparring gear. When I came back to karate about 3.5 years ago, it was either Kyokushin or Seido. One of the reasons I chose Seido was because I felt like my body was getting too old for the bare knuckle day in and day out. I could’ve done it again, but I took a realistic look inward and asked myself how long can I do that. I’ve done it before, and the lessons learned aren’t ones you forget - in a good way.

We’ve got a bunch of guys and women who were in bare knuckle organizations in the past. Seido was Kyokushin, and my teacher and his wife were in Kyokushin. Most of us with that background spar pretty hard when it’s appropriate. It all depends on who we’re paired up with and how that person’s feeling that day. My CI often says “I’ve got no problem with people going hard. Just make sure your partner is willing and able, and you’re under control.”

 

[Headhunter]

That's how I read it as well. It sounds to me like the guest instructor was trying to make the kid better, and keep discipline in the dojo.

If your flaws aren't pointed out how can you improve them? If you are being mollycoddled how can you gain discipline?

Yeah I'm very confused why people are saying he was in the wrong....the kid got his black belt last week....does that mean your not allowed to correct a mistake and the op thinks their kids so good they're beyond correction. The op used big words like bullying and belittling and picking on him but from the actual description I saw none of that. "He made my son do his kata in front of the whole class" um yeah that happens in pretty much every class....surely Mr black belt should have no problem showing his kata to everyone

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yeah I'm very confused why people are saying he was in the wrong....the kid got his black belt last week....does that mean your not allowed to correct a mistake and the op thinks their kids so good they're beyond correction. The op used big words like bullying and belittling and picking on him but from the actual description I saw none of that. "He made my son do his kata in front of the whole class" um yeah that happens in pretty much every class....surely Mr black belt should have no problem showing his kata to everyone

It, as usual, depends how it was done.

 

[skribs]

Yeah I'm very confused why people are saying he was in the wrong....the kid got his black belt last week....does that mean your not allowed to correct a mistake and the op thinks their kids so good they're beyond correction. The op used big words like bullying and belittling and picking on him but from the actual description I saw none of that. "He made my son do his kata in front of the whole class" um yeah that happens in pretty much every class....surely Mr black belt should have no problem showing his kata to everyone

That depends on how it's done. If it's done to show every mistake in a kata that you basically just learned for the previous rank and are still refining, that's a bit demeaning. Especially if these are either A) details that the student hasn't learned yet, or B) details that this instructor does different.

Depending on how well he knows the student, too, he doesn't know the student's progress. Or if he is there, then he DOES know the student's progress. If the student has been corrected several times, then sure. But if the student hasn't gotten these details yet, then he should do it as a positive teaching moment (i.e. "you can do this to sharpen your technique") instead of a negative teaching moment (i.e. "you're bad and don't deserve that belt").

In my school, a new black joining the black belt class is basically the beginner. Like going from 8th grade to high school, you're suddenly at the bottom of the totem pole. Or if this is a mixed belt class, then we might be looking at a black belt being humiliated in front of the colored belts.

 

[skribs]

There may be depth here we are not appreciating. What if the senior instructor is aware of the new instructors weaknesses in teaching and is trying to help him learn how to teach better and how to deal with the adversity of dealing with upset parents?

You don't do that without being there to see what's happening.

 

[hoshin1600]

It’s like the motorcycle helmet laws. I hate to say it, but helmets on a motorcycle don’t do more than protect your head if you’re stopped at a stoplight and fall over. Or keep your head from getting lumped up if you get hit by a stone in the road. I’m not a motorcycle guy, so this isn’t some biased rant.

sorry for the derailment of the thread but i dont think this is accurate. this clip explains good helmets but thats not the end of the story. accidents are not limited to direct impacts. a lot of injuries are caused by sliding your face over 50 feet of pavement. people lose their facial features and sometimes including the entire jaw. the key is to wear an approved DOT helmet. most bikers (myself included) wear nothing but a "skull cap" or "brain bucket" designed for scooping your brain up off the ground after the accident.

 

[Headhunter]

That depends on how it's done. If it's done to show every mistake in a kata that you basically just learned for the previous rank and are still refining, that's a bit demeaning. Especially if these are either A) details that the student hasn't learned yet, or B) details that this instructor does different.

Depending on how well he knows the student, too, he doesn't know the student's progress. Or if he is there, then he DOES know the student's progress. If the student has been corrected several times, then sure. But if the student hasn't gotten these details yet, then he should do it as a positive teaching moment (i.e. "you can do this to sharpen your technique") instead of a negative teaching moment (i.e. "you're bad and don't deserve that belt").

In my school, a new black joining the black belt class is basically the beginner. Like going from 8th grade to high school, you're suddenly at the bottom of the totem pole. Or if this is a mixed belt class, then we might be looking at a black belt being humiliated in front of the colored belts.

If it's details they haven't learnt yet then that was the time to learn than instead of sulking about it. How's he supposed to learn those details if he's not told them. I've done stuff in classes and been told the things I'm doing wrong in front of a class. I don't care that's why I'm there. To learn not parade around pretending I'm great

 

[skribs]

If it's details they haven't learnt yet then that was the time to learn than instead of sulking about it. How's he supposed to learn those details if he's not told them. I've done stuff in classes and been told the things I'm doing wrong in front of a class. I don't care that's why I'm there. To learn not parade around pretending I'm great

There's a difference between being told how to improve your kata, and being told you're an idiot because you don't know things you haven't been told.

 

[Yokozuna514]

That was my Kyokushin offshoot days. I’m in Seido Juku now; Tadashi Nakamura’s organization if you’re not familiar. We wear sparring gear. When I came back to karate about 3.5 years ago, it was either Kyokushin or Seido. One of the reasons I chose Seido was because I felt like my body was getting too old for the bare knuckle day in and day out. I could’ve done it again, but I took a realistic look inward and asked myself how long can I do that. I’ve done it before, and the lessons learned aren’t ones you forget - in a good way.

We’ve got a bunch of guys and women who were in bare knuckle organizations in the past. Seido was Kyokushin, and my teacher and his wife were in Kyokushin. Most of us with that background spar pretty hard when it’s appropriate. It all depends on who we’re paired up with and how that person’s feeling that day. My CI often says “I’ve got no problem with people going hard. Just make sure your partner is willing and able, and you’re under control.”

Osu, although I haven't trained with any Seido Juku guys yet, I know who Shihan Nakamura is. Also know who Shihan Charles Martin is as well.

We follow the same principle of consent at our dojo. The most skillful fighters can adjust the power they deliver depending on who their opponent is but a good instructor will always remind people to look at who they are sparring with and be considerate of their training as well as their own.

 

[Headhunter]

There's a difference between being told how to improve your kata, and being told you're an idiot because you don't know things you haven't been told.

And where in the post was that claimed to be what he said

 

[CB Jones]

Well the OP hasn’t been back to the thread since posting it....so I’m going no to guess it was an overreaction.

 

[Yokozuna514]

I may be wrong but the a commonly held definition for a black belt is that they mastered the basic movements of a particular style. It is 100% to be corrected for technique even when you are a black belt. The way it comes across to the student may differ from how that message was intended to be delivered but that is what happens when the human element is introduced into anything. Two people can look at the exact same thing and feel opposite about it.

Still, the OP is a parent and the comments were being delivered to a child by an adult, they may want to have a discussion with the CI to "better understand" what happened. They won't know unless they ask. I can also understand that there are parents who 'bubble wrap" their kids. Who knows if this is that kind of situation but, imho, asking for clarification from the CI is better than assuming the worst. In all instances, people should be respectful when making such inquiries as they can be contentious.

 

[JR 137]

Osu, although I haven't trained with any Seido Juku guys yet, I know who Shihan Nakamura is. Also know who Shihan Charles Martin is as well.

We follow the same principle of consent at our dojo. The most skillful fighters can adjust the power they deliver depending on who their opponent is but a good instructor will always remind people to look at who they are sparring with and be considerate of their training as well as their own.

Hanshi Charles Martin is still Nakamura’s student. Such a nice guy. I’ve met and spoke to him a few times, but haven’t had the privilege of being in a class he’s running.

My teacher has a ton of William Oliver stories too. My teacher was around during the Fighting Black Kings days. He’s not in the movie, but he was at some of those workouts. I think he was around brown belt at that time. I think he said he was in the first group to test for shodan after Kaicho Nakamura left Kyokushin and started Seido. That was 1976.

The Kyokushin offshoot I was in was started by 2 former Nakamura Kyokushin students. We were supposed to adjust our contact with people appropriately, but there were enough guys who didn’t understand that concept, unfortunately. I loved it when I was in my 20s. In my 40s, I don’t recover like I used to. My 20 man kumite for shodan was on a Saturday. I was back in class Monday night. If that were today, I’d be out at least a week, more like 2+.

I loved it and truthfully miss it. But I’m also realistic about where I am at this point in my life and how long I could keep that up. I know a few too many guys who needed hip and knee replacements at way too young of an age because of that stuff, along with other problems. I’ve got the utmost respect for it, but right now it’s just not for me. Been there done that. If I could do that for the rest of my life, I’d do it.