Are we reducing or cheapened what it takes to be considered brave or to be a hero?

[dvcochran]

Heros kinda makes me chuckle. If that’s how people are motivated to go to work and brave this bubonic plague (more chuckles), then more power to them.

I make medicine at a biotech pharmaceutical company. I’m part of a team that’s making an anti-Covid drug that’s in phase 3 of clinical testing. I’m no hero. The other drugs being made at our site are very important too - treating macular degeneration, severe excema, severe asthma, cancer, Ebola, and a few others on that scale. The people on the manufacturing floor and our direct support staff (specialized cleaners, QA/QC, and the like) are the only ones on campus. The management sends us emails thanking us for our hard work (we do work hard, but no different now than before) and says we’re the “rock stars” of the company. You know what I consider my reward? My paycheck. You know what recognition I need? My paycheck. They’re giving us a weekly report-to-site bonus. I’ll take it, but I honestly don’t think we really deserve it. We’re just doing our jobs. Truthfully, I’m digging the ghost town atmosphere. We’ve go space to do our thing, the annoying people who try changing things for the sake of changing things are gone, the BS things we’re required to do outside of working on the floor have been suspended or reassigned. No lines at the cafeteria, free lunch because they don’t want us going out, ample parking. I could keep going.

This has easily been the best financial year of my life. I’ve done 10 hours of overtime every week except for 3 since the lockdown began. Adding that to my weekly bonus, and I’m cleaning up. Due to quarantines and people taking time off here and there, I could literally work every day last month, this month, and next month. One extra shift a week (I work 4 ten hour days) is plenty.

Yeah. I’m a hero. And a rock star. Nah. I’m just doing my job. And making extra money for it. I sincerely hope other essential workers are getting compensated appropriately, are given the option of overtime, and are being treated respectfully by their employers.

This post needs a Love button.

 

[granfire]

They are not heroes....sorry. They are people just doing their jobs during this pandemic.

Years ago, during a shootout with a Aryan brotherhood member in a motel parking lot, a couple EMTs went into the parking lot to render aid to one of the officers down while the gunfight was going on....while rendering aid one of them was shot in the leg......those EMTs are heroes.

NFL running back Joe Delaney jumped in a pond to save three drowning children although he couldn't swim himself....he saved the children but drown doing so....he is a hero.

People should just take pride in doing their job without needing to have smoke blown up their ****. They should be shown appreciation but claiming they are heroes.....come on now. In my opinion, it's silly.

By your description, the EMTs are just doing their job.
And the Marines taking Ivo Jima weren't either. Just doing the job, sir.

Sure, the grocery store staff has little choice.
But they have been putting their lives at risk so the society can continue to function.
They are given little in terms of protection, in terms of protection against the virus, and from irate customers.

heroism comes in many different shapes.
And most did not sign up for it. They couldn't care less about it, because, as you said, 'doing the job' because it needs to be done.
the mail carrier caught in a gang shootout
teachers (for all they do that isn't in the job description)
and we found out that fastfood workers and store employees are more essential than we allowed them to be in our snobbish attitude.
and that cleaning crew you like to overlook (generic, not personal)
An essential part of life

 

[CB Jones]

Also, by your logic, we should stop calling every cop a hero. They are, after all, just doing their job

They're not unless they do something heroic.

 

[CB Jones]

By your description, the EMTs are just doing their job.
And the Marines taking Ivo Jima weren't either. Just doing the job, sir

Those EMTs job is not to go into the middle of ongoing gunfight unarmed to help a downed officer....that was a choice they made...and one many wouldnt have.

And I think the taking of Iwo Jima or being in combat period is pretty heroic.

Sacking groceries at a supermarket just doesn't meet the same standard.

 

[Steve]

They're not unless they do something heroic.

Tell that to... everyone.

You also ignored the first part of my post, which is that these folks aren't referring to themselves as heroes, asking to be called heroes, or threatening to stop working because they're not being called heroes. In contrast, some cops get pretty entitled, and we've seen in the news over just the last few months cops referring to themselves as heroes and acting resentful when they felt disrespected.

 

[CB Jones]

You also ignored the first part of my post, which is that these folks aren't referring to themselves as heroes, asking to be called heroes, or threatening to stop working because they're not being called heroes. In contrast, some cops get pretty entitled, and we've seen in the news over just the last few months cops referring to themselves as heroes and acting resentful when they felt disrespected.

I understand that. I just think its silly. I think there are better ways to show appreciation for your employees.

The heroes work here claim is just blowing smoke.

And I don't know of a single cop that calls themself a hero....that is media, administrators, or union reps blowing smoke.

 

[JR 137]

I think it's relevant that you are well compensated while the folks who work in grocery stores are generally not. This matters for two reasons. First, is the obvious. We need to pay these guys better, but we are also asking them to work full time in direct contact with a bunch of assholes for peanuts. Your risk if contact is minimal in your lab or office. So, you get paid a lot, and incur very little risk by doing your job. Simply put, your situation is not the same.

Second, this isn't a career for most of these people. There are some career employees, but 2/3rds or so of them are kids putting themselves through school or working their first jobs. You may not appreciate a simple gesture, but that doesn't mean nobody does.

I didn’t mention a single one of your arguments simply because I thought they were obvious. I go into the same convenience store every morning on my way into work. The nice lady working there is underpaid and under appreciated. She routinely says “I wonder how many times I’m going to get cursed out today (for tell people masks are required by law in NYS). Her job doesn’t pay her enough during “normal” times IMO. Then add that to it? Of course they’re taking a risk by dealing with the public. No ones debating that. At least no logical person. Of course she’s higher risk due to her age.

But that’s not heroic IMO. Regardless of everything, it’s still just doing her job. I’ll ask her if she considers herself a hero. And I’ll ask her if she wants a sign put up. I’m sure I’ll get a whitty and entertaining response.

 

[granfire]

Those EMTs job is not to go into the middle of ongoing gunfight unarmed to help a downed officer....that was a choice they made...and one many wouldnt have.

And I think the taking of Iwo Jima or being in combat period is pretty heroic.

Sacking groceries at a supermarket just doesn't meet the same standard.

Under normal circumstances, it isn't
The point is, these aren't normal circumstances!
Those who can stay home, to protect themselves from this virus of which we know far too little.
They are in essence going out, unarmed, into a shootout.

They are putting their lives at risk, so you can do curbside pickup and stay in your car.
As I said above, they have been insulted and attacked for things not in their control, they have been coughed at, and spit at. And some have been shot (some killed) for just doing their job.

They have families at home, they are often themselves in a risk group.

If you live in a civilized state, good for you. I don't and I see so many who are on their own, when the store (the big one, that could dictate policy, because there are few alternatives) just offers weak suggestions for safety, and flimsy protection for the workers.

Although I do think that this hero worship is getting out of hand.
Give them a pay raise, and save the signs.
Give them a living wage, so they don't have to have 3 jobs.
and enough PTO and sick leave so they can take care of themselves and their families.

 

[Steve]

I understand that. I just think its silly. I think there are better ways to show appreciation for your employees.

The heroes work here claim is just blowing smoke.

And I don't know of a single cop that calls themself a hero....that is media, administrators, or union reps blowing smoke.

Did you hear the NYPD union president's ranting diatribe a few months ago? Whew... talk about saying the inside thoughts out loud.

That said, as a criticism of management, I agree, though i'd be a little more charitable. Some folks are motivated by public statements of appreciation, and others hate them. As I said in my first post in this thread, this is a public declaration for the staff. It's not for the public. Whether it's perceived cynically or positively by staff depends on the strength of the relationship between the employees and management. Either way, we're not the target audience.

 

[Steve]

I didn’t mention a single one of your arguments simply because I thought they were obvious. I go into the same convenience store every morning on my way into work. The nice lady working there is underpaid and under appreciated. She routinely says “I wonder how many times I’m going to get cursed out today (for tell people masks are required by law in NYS). Her job doesn’t pay her enough during “normal” times IMO. Then add that to it? Of course they’re taking a risk by dealing with the public. No ones debating that. At least no logical person. Of course she’s higher risk due to her age.

But that’s not heroic IMO. Regardless of everything, it’s still just doing her job. I’ll ask her if she considers herself a hero. And I’ll ask her if she wants a sign put up. I’m sure I’ll get a whitty and entertaining response.

Okay. Real quick. First, she may not appreciate it. Not everyone does.

Second, your position is entirely different from hers, which is entirely different from the grocery store employees mentioned in the OP. My point is that you're creating a straw man by articulating your thoughts about your own situation, and that because you don't consider yourself a hero, grocery store employees shouldn't either. Whether it happens to be true or not is incidental. The connection between your situation and a grocery store employees is superficial at best.

Third, whether the grocery store employees believe themselves to be heroes or not is independent of the gesture. I would expect most grocery store employees do not feel like heroes. It's a gesture of support and appreciation by their employer. Sometimes, when they are sincere and perceived as sincere by the employees, they are very helpful. When they are insincere or even perceived as insincere by employees, they can actually make morale worse. But if the question is, does this gesture dilute the word so that we can't distinguish between the risks of a well paid lab employee with minimal risk of exposure vs an underpaid grocery store employee at high risk of exposure vs an ER nurse with very high risk of exposure vs a bystander who runs into a burning house to save two children and a dog from certain death, I think the integrity of the relative language is safe.

 

[Chrisinmd]

But if the question is, does this gesture dilute the word so that we can't distinguish between the risks of a well paid lab employee with minimal risk of exposure vs an underpaid grocery store employee at high risk of exposure vs an ER nurse with very high risk of exposure vs a bystander who runs into a burning house to save two children and a dog from certain death.

Very well thought out and good examples. I would certainly agree that the ER Nurse and the bystander who runs into a burning house are heroes and / or showed courage. The grocery store example is where I could see an argument both ways. I think it also depends on the particular grocery store worker. A 62 year old cancer survivor who is at much higher risk of dying vs a 20 year old in good health. Both are taking some risks but the 62 year old much more so.

So how much risk of death does someone have to face down to be considered a hero? If the 62 year old has a 25 percent increase risk of death by working at a grocery store and the 20 year old has 5 percent chance are they both heroes or just one of them? I know you cant get that exact with the percentages but you get the general point.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

I don't know about how, but the tax exempt status for military pay was only when I was deployed to a warzone.

Can't speak to the rest.

Might have been fine print on one of their ad's. You know how they do tiny corrections sometimes to be legally compliant, not looked into it recently. I have heard people say that is a pro though that you usually get more of your paycheck upfront and it being subsidised.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

you really cant lock people up and then charge them rent, thats just silly

I mean you can. Pretty sure you still get it taken out of your pay check, you just pay a really low number for your holding there. Plus, you waived a lot of your rights signing the contract. (and then prices and if you pay is dependent on if you have married quaters etc, or if you rent outside the base, they will put money towards outside rent i belive.)

 

[ShortBridge]

I think that the narrative of the hero has always both been true and a propaganda tool to inspire other people to put their lives at risk for vague concepts like "the flag" or "patriotism". Not that those things never matter, but they do cover all manner of political sin (Faulkland Islands - as what I hope is a random benign example that doesn't invite debate)

I reject that heroes must die bloody violent deaths (sometimes by complete accident) rather than excruciating and unglamorous deaths in a hospital or at home when no one is watching.

I'm not saying that all grocery workers are heroes or that they aren't. It's fair to say that they are putting themselves and their families at risk so that the rest of us can buy food. Are they doing that out of a calling for the greater good or because they can't afford to pass on their wages or even because they think the whole thing is a hoax?

I am saying that the term hero has been cheapened a million times over before this example came up in 2020. No reason to get precious about it now.

 

[Buka]

So....the EMT's that ran into the middleofa gunfight to treat a Police Officer, and the Fire-fighter who ran back into a burning house to save a pet on the top floor - no doubt heroes. But what about two years later? Are they still heroes because of the heroic acts? Or is there an expiration date?

 

[Steve]

So....the EMT's that ran into the middleofa gunfight to treat a Police Officer, and the Fire-fighter who ran back into a burning house to save a pet on the top floor - no doubt heroes. But what about two years later? Are they still heroes because of the heroic acts? Or is there an expiration date?

Great questions.

What if the EMT was a member of the Proud Boys?

 

[CB Jones]

So....the EMT's that ran into the middleofa gunfight to treat a Police Officer, and the Fire-fighter who ran back into a burning house to save a pet on the top floor - no doubt heroes. But what about two years later? Are they still heroes because of the heroic acts? Or is there an expiration date?

To me....still heroes.

They earned earned that title/claim

 

[jobo]

So....the EMT's that ran into the middleofa gunfight to treat a Police Officer, and the Fire-fighter who ran back into a burning house to save a pet on the top floor - no doubt heroes. But what about two years later? Are they still heroes because of the heroic acts? Or is there an expiration date?

it has an expiry date unless they gave you a medal with the word hero on it some years ago, there was a rather sad case

a guy obviously deeply depressed jump in front of a train, as luck would have it he lost a leg but otherwise survived. he told the police he was rescuing a dog that someone had tied to the line. then he was a hero, he was on teli in the papers people sent him money, ets etc and he was now happy

however his hero status expired and he just went back to being a non hero, only with one less leg, which i imagine made things worse

so he went back to the same place and put his other leg on the line, and told the same story, only this time no one believed him

 

[dvcochran]

By your description, the EMTs are just doing their job.
And the Marines taking Ivo Jima weren't either. Just doing the job, sir.

Sure, the grocery store staff has little choice.
But they have been putting their lives at risk so the society can continue to function.
They are given little in terms of protection, in terms of protection against the virus, and from irate customers.

heroism comes in many different shapes.
And most did not sign up for it. They couldn't care less about it, because, as you said, 'doing the job' because it needs to be done.
the mail carrier caught in a gang shootout
teachers (for all they do that isn't in the job description)
and we found out that fastfood workers and store employees are more essential than we allowed them to be in our snobbish attitude.
and that cleaning crew you like to overlook (generic, not personal)
An essential part of life

Frankly, that is hilariously over dramatic. You clearly did not 'hear' what CB Jones wrote. I would try to explain but I get the feeling it is pointless.

 

[dvcochran]

I think that the narrative of the hero has always both been true and a propaganda tool to inspire other people to put their lives at risk for vague concepts like "the flag" or "patriotism". Not that those things never matter, but they do cover all manner of political sin (Faulkland Islands - as what I hope is a random benign example that doesn't invite debate)

I reject that heroes must die bloody violent deaths (sometimes by complete accident) rather than excruciating and unglamorous deaths in a hospital or at home when no one is watching.

I'm not saying that all grocery workers are heroes or that they aren't. It's fair to say that they are putting themselves and their families at risk so that the rest of us can buy food. Are they doing that out of a calling for the greater good or because they can't afford to pass on their wages or even because they think the whole thing is a hoax?

I am saying that the term hero has been cheapened a million times over before this example came up in 2020. No reason to get precious about it now.

Wow. Did you not have a history class in grade school? Read a book. How/where you get the flag or patriotism as 'vague concepts' is offensive and an outright glaring indication of your ignorance. You think either construct is political? Dude. The Faulkland islands war was between Argentina and the United Kingdom.

Who said anything about all hero's dying 'bloody violent deaths'? Jumping to a rather irrational extreme aren't we? It is pretty clear what Kool-Aid you are drinking. Sad.