Are competitive Sport Martial Artists superior?

[Hanzou]

your not grasping the gravity of the topic, were are not taking about an eye gauge, we talkibg about someone sticking their finger right in yoyr eye, in a delibrate attempt to blind you

you may go on to win that fight, but you flipping blind in one eye ,

i dont underatand hows that difficult to understand, that any techneque that leaves that as even a romote possibility is very suspect

Which is why I tend to avoid getting into street fights, because horrible stuff like that can happen.

However, you seem to be missing the point; Being blinded in one eye is preferable to death or permanent brain damage. Any technique/strategy that leaves you open to death is HIGHLY suspect.

 

[jobo]

Not all forms of grappling have joint locks or strangles from dominant position.



Just from personal experience, if I'm in side control my goal is to either advance my position or isolate your near arm for a submission. If you're reaching for an eye gouge, you're purposely giving me your near arm. Like I said, "a gift".



Like I said, poking someone in the eye is an easy way to escalate the violence of the encounter. Like Bas Ruten said; You poke my eye, I snap your neck. You're taking a big risk for potential little reward, because even if you blind someone, that's not a guarantee that they're going to release their hold on you.

and you dont understand fighting mentality

ive had numiurous sets tos over the years, where someone has started a foght with me, which when its very soon broken up, they accuse me of tryibg to kill them, well yes thats what i was intending,,

most fights dont last long till they get broken up , the winner is the one who inflicted the most damage in 20 seconds or so it lasted, having a long game is largley pointless and dangerous, hurt them hurt them quickly, dont lie there doibg artistic moves

 

[jobo]

Which is why I tend to avoid getting into street fights, because horrible stuff like that can happen.

However, you seem to be missing the point; Being blinded in one eye is preferable to death or permanent brain damage. Any technique/strategy that leaves you open to death is HIGHLY suspect.

thats a silly argument, its not either or

and the people who will blind you with absolutely no compassion or regret are also the same people that give you very little choice on if you get into a fight or not

what preferable is not using techniques that put you in danger of being blinded or or bitten or to blind them first

 

[Hanzou]

and you dont understand fighting mentality

ive had numiurous sets tos over the years, where someone has started a foght with me, which when its very soon broken up, they accuse me of tryibg to kill them, well yes thats what i was intending,,

most fights dont last long till they get broken up , the winner is the one who inflicted the most damage in 20 seconds or so it lasted, having a long game is largley pointless and dangerous, hurt them hurt them quickly, dont lie there doibg artistic moves

Why do you think any of that is a "long game"? You can takedown, side control, kimura pop or takedown, mount, ground and pound in about 20 seconds.

Which btw makes an eye poke even less likely to happen.

 

[Hanzou]

thats a silly argument, its not either or

and the people who will blind you with absolutely no compassion or regret are also the same people that give you very little choice on if you get into a fight or not

what preferable is not using techniques that put you in danger of being blinded or or bitten or to blind them first

The person who attempted to blind you is in an inferior position. I don't think this conversation is useful until you understand what that means.

 

[skribs]

Not all forms of grappling have joint locks or strangles from dominant position.



Just from personal experience, if I'm in side control my goal is to either advance my position or isolate your near arm for a submission. If you're reaching for an eye gouge, you're purposely giving me your near arm. Like I said, "a gift".



Like I said, poking someone in the eye is an easy way to escalate the violence of the encounter. Like Bas Ruten said; You poke my eye, I snap your neck. You're taking a big risk for potential little reward, because even if you blind someone, that's not a guarantee that they're going to release their hold on you.

Did that person ever actually snap someone's neck? Or is that just prideful boasting in his art?

You're trying to isolate my near arm. What if I use my far arm? What if you don't catch the arm quite in time?

How do you know you're going to be in a dominant position 100% of the time?

You sound a lot like the stereotypical TMA grandmaster that's claiming their art and training can beat every opponent.

This is why I take the contrarian view. It lets me see of you're actually critical of your art in less favorable situations, or if you're just drinking koolaid.

From what I can tell: glug glug.

 

[Hanzou]

Did that person ever actually snap someone's neck? Or is that just prideful boasting in his art?

Bas is MMA, not Bjj (though he is a Bjj blackbelt). I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if Bas wanted to snap someone's neck, he could do so rather easily. He has the tools and the mentality to do so.

You're trying to isolate my near arm. What if I use my far arm? What if you don't catch the arm quite in time?

......................

As @Steve said, now we're entering the land of fan fiction.

How do you know you're going to be in a dominant position 100% of the time?

Side control IS a dominant position. You would need to escape that dominant position in order to mount a successful attack. Until you escape that dominant position, you will be stuck in an inferior position.

Like I told @jobo, this conversation is pointless if you don't understand what dominant position and inferior position means. Attacking from an inferior position is extremely risky, which is why people are taught to escape the inferior position first and THEN mount an attack.

You sound a lot like the stereotypical TMA grandmaster that's claiming their art and training can beat every opponent.

Yeah, Poke-fu isn't being used by "every" opponent. A smart person actually trying to get out of an inferior position would simply learn some simple escapes that not only keep themselves safe, but don't escalate the violence of an encounter.

 

[skribs]

Bas is MMA, not Bjj (though he is a Bjj blackbelt). I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if Bas wanted to snap someone's neck, he could do so rather easily. He has the tools and the mentality to do so.

......................

As @Steve said, now we're entering the land of fan fiction.



Side control IS a dominant position. You would need to escape that dominant position in order to mount a successful attack. Until you escape that dominant position, you will be stuck in an inferior position.

Like I told @jobo, this conversation is pointless if you don't understand what dominant position and inferior position means. Attacking from an inferior position is extremely risky, which is why people are taught to escape the inferior position first and THEN mount an attack.



Yeah, Poke-fu isn't being used by "every" opponent. A smart person actually trying to get out of an inferior position would simply learn some simple escapes that not only keep themselves safe, but don't escalate the violence of an encounter.

Several of those clips, the far arm is the one that the person put their face next to. So...not fiction. I'm basing this on BJJ videos.

You're too far into the MMA cult for me to have a serious discussion with. I'm done.

 

[Hanzou]

Several of those clips, the far arm is the one that the person put their face next to. So...not fiction. I'm basing this on BJJ videos.

You're too far into the MMA cult for me to have a serious discussion with. I'm done.

We were talking about the far arm in side control....

 

[Steve]

 

[Graywalker]

No. Because you know where it does work.

Same as how you prove 2+2=4. It works because maths works.

Yes, perfectly inside a rule set sport...

2+2=4-4=0

Yup math works.

 

[Graywalker]

and you dont understand fighting mentality

I believe that there are a few people on here, that do not understand this concept.

 

[jobo]

Bas is MMA, not Bjj (though he is a Bjj blackbelt). I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if Bas wanted to snap someone's neck, he could do so rather easily. He has the tools and the mentality to do so.

......................

As @Steve said, now we're entering the land of fan fiction.



Side control IS a dominant position. You would need to escape that dominant position in order to mount a successful attack. Until you escape that dominant position, you will be stuck in an inferior position.

Like I told @jobo, this conversation is pointless if you don't understand what dominant position and inferior position means. Attacking from an inferior position is extremely risky, which is why people are taught to escape the inferior position first and THEN mount an attack.



Yeah, Poke-fu isn't being used by "every" opponent. A smart person actually trying to get out of an inferior position would simply learn some simple escapes that not only keep themselves safe, but don't escalate the violence of an encounter.

over again your most likely not fightibg someone who has been trained at all,you cant exspect them to stick to a protocol

they will attack from any position and do as much damage as possible, and that is what id do as well, break my arm if you want, im still going to try and blind you

ITS A FIGHT, not messing about with yoyr mate on the mat

fights as youve said can escolated in the level of violance, ive never sibscribed to that since i got a serious hidding when i was about 14 for not starting off hard.

but i d considered someone trying to break my arm as them seriously escolating things

 

[Hanzou]

over again your most likely not fightibg someone who has been trained at all,you cant exspect them to stick to a protocol

they will attack from any position and do as much damage as possible, and that is what id do as well, break my arm if you want, im still going to try and blind you

ITS A FIGHT, not messing about with yoyr mate on the mat

Again, this conversation goes nowhere if you don't understand how dominant and inferior positions work. If you think people get stuck in the bottom of dominant positions because they're following a script or a protocol, I really don't know how we can discuss this any further. You're essentially hopeless.

 

[Graywalker]

ITS A FIGHT, not messing about with yoyr mate on the mat

I freaking love this, this is something, those who have only done competitive fighting will never understand.

This ground fighting, on asphalt, is simply a meat grinder on your body. No one comes out on top.

 

[jobo]

Again, this conversation goes nowhere if you don't understand how dominant and inferior positions work. If you think people get stuck in the bottom of dominant positions because they're following a script or a protocol, I really don't know how we can discuss this any further. You're essentially hopeless.

your clueless about real world violence, your no better than, than the hobby ma you like to ridicule

there not rryibf to win a fight, they are trying to kill you failing that to maim ,

the protocol you want them to follow is not to attack from an inferior postion, and that whhen they will attacked hardest and wish to cause the most damage, if they are winning there no point going for the eyes,

 

[Hanzou]

there not rryibf to win a fight,

They're not what?

the protocol you want them to follow is not to attack from an inferior postion, and that whhen they will attacked hardest and wish to cause the most damage, if they are winning there no point going for the eyes,

LoL @ "protocol". Unlike one step sparring that you're probably used to, positioning isn't based on a perfect set of circumstances, it's based on fairly universal principles.

Hence why in situations like this;

The principles still apply.

 

[jobo]

They're not what?



LoL @ "protocol". Unlike one step sparring that you're probably used to, positioning isn't based on a perfect set of circumstances, it's based on fairly universal principles.

Hence why in situations like this;

The principles still apply.

i dont do one step sparring, and o agreed with you that competition ma had a distinct advantage,

that not at all the same as saying you can actually fight, when the consequencu of winning never mind loosing can be very high

what your showing is a distincted lack of awareness on how things tend to go down,

 

[jobo]

They're not what?



LoL @ "protocol". Unlike one step sparring that you're probably used to, positioning isn't based on a perfect set of circumstances, it's based on fairly universal principles.

Hence why in situations like this;

The principles still apply.

and that vid oroves nothing, i knocked a bigger tougher guy than that over 19 months ago with a lot more damaged caused to him,

im quite confident i could have lnocked that one over as well

that of course doesnt prove that karate is king and i could fight before i joined

 

[jobo]

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