Anyone ever get serious second thoughts/ doubts about the school that they chose?

[melissa27]

Thank you all for the responses. I do not want to go into too much detail, but the incidents were no accidents. At this point I have been over & over it again with my instructor/instructors so I'm not sure if I'm up for another round of talking since it didn't seem to do much. I think I may just take a month off to think, I don't want to burn any bridges but I also want to honor and trust myself and what happened to me. At this point I do dread going to class and feel lot of anger for how I was led to believe that all of this stuff was going on behind the scenes after the first time I was injured & that there was going to be some disciplinary action, and in actuality this wasn't the case at all. There were some general talks about focus presented to everyone, but she was not dealt with directly. You know, I think I'm mad at myself for being stupid enough to believe they had my back on this when I had no actual proof, to the point where I let my guard down & it happened on a smaller scale a second time.

 

[Carol]

There is no honor in an abusive environment. Take your time, energy, and money where you are respected.

 

[K-man]

I do not want to go into too much detail, but the incidents were no accidents. At this point I have been over & over it again with my instructor/instructors so I'm not sure if I'm up for another round of talking since it didn't seem to do much. I think I may just take a month off to think, I don't want to burn any bridges but I also want to honor and trust myself and what happened to me. At this point I do dread going to class and feel lot of anger for how I was led to believe that all of this stuff was going on behind the scenes after the first time I was injured & that there was going to be some disciplinary action, and in actuality this wasn't the case at all.

Take the time out. That is a good idea. Use the time to look at some other schools. Talk to some of the other schools' students and ask about the dynamic of their class. Do the students have fun and enjoy the classes? What happens if there is a personality clash? Are there any dojo politics? Personally, I train for a number of reasons. Way up there is enjoying the training. The day I stop enjoying the training, I am out! I did do that many years ago when dojo politics broke our style apart. After many years I returned to training. I don't for one minute regret leaving, only that it took me so long to go back. :asian:

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

I have been asked by the OP not to mention the style for fear of the sensei causing retribution on to the OP. This sounds almost cult-like.

If the Mods feel posting the OP style endangers the OP then please delete it. However part of me wishes that people know what is happening and maybe someone could make a difference.

As to Melissa my apologies to posting your style it was a question another member asked but you should be honest with yourself why would you want to be part of something that endangers your life?

 

[suicide]

If someone say, broke my leg in the middle of a class to make a point, and then the instructor just told me what they thought I wanted to hear and in reality did nothing about it, I would not let that pass.

I would GO HARD to another school. Possibly GO HARD after the offender's pocketbook via court.

look chick , when you get attacked on the street or in a dark alley or in a mall parking lot or in a public park ( to get robbed or raped or murdered ) your gonna thank the day that it got rough in your dojo and you survived , theres alot of reasons why we all take MA : health , wealth & love etc etc just remind yourself of the self defense real world aspect of it i hope you are never in a tuff situation were your abilities to survive will be in question - you just never know sometimes ? :angel:

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

look chick , when you get attacked on the street or in a dark alley or in a mall parking lot or in a public park ( to get robbed or raped or murdered ) your gonna thank the day that it got rough in your dojo and you survived , theres alot of reasons why we all take MA : health , wealth & love etc etc just remind yourself of the self defense real world aspect of it i hope you are never in a tuff situation were your abilities to survive will be in question - you just never know sometimes ? :angel:

There is a difference between rough in the Dojo and plain negligence.

 

[suicide]

There is a difference between rough in the Dojo and plain negligence.

ok ? was her leg or arm broken ? did she pick her eyeball up off the ground ? what was it exactly that she felt was to much ? they pulled her gi one way to hard doesnt count ! you think her teacher is gonna be there to save her all the time ? no way maybe the teacher looked the other way : just to toughen her up a bit - what do you expect she was testing !

and to the person talking about sueing ? i would love to see you sue a crack head heroin junkie off the street trying to robb rape & murder you for 5 bucks in that case sue your self for not going to class and GOING HARD & TAKING CLASS SERIOUS i dont go to class to make friends i go to get my issue and thats it !

 

[tshadowchaser]

After a year in my first school i had seen enough of other schools and what they did to know that I wanted more than my instructor could provide. I looked around and found two schools that had what I wanted. I found a job near one of those two schools and moved there. I stayed in that system for 30 years till I found it was time to leave for reason that will not be discussed over an internet forum

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

ok ? was her leg or arm broken ? did she pick her eyeball up off the ground ? what was it exactly that she felt was to much ? they pulled her gi one way to hard doesnt count ! you think her teacher is gonna be there to save her all the time ? no way maybe the teacher looked the other way : just to toughen her up a bit - what do you expect she was testing !

and to the person talking about sueing ? i would love to see you sue a crack head heroin junkie off the street trying to robb rape & murder you for 5 bucks in that case sue your self for not going to class and GOING HARD & TAKING CLASS SERIOUS i dont go to class to make friends i go to get my issue and thats it !

It does not matter what YOU think is too much because you are not the other person dealing with the things in question. Everyone has their limits and there is no reason to have your arm or leg broken because someone can not control themselves and even more so have a teacher who does not take responsibility by discipling the out of control student. The girl felt her life was threaten that should not happen in the Dojo period!!

Stop confusing what happens in a controled setting like a Dojo and someone on the streets they are 2 seperate issues.

 

[geezer]

ok ? was her leg or arm broken ? did she pick her eyeball up off the ground ? what was it exactly that she felt was to much ? they pulled her gi one way to hard doesnt count ! you think her teacher is gonna be there to save her all the time ? no way maybe the teacher looked the other way : just to toughen her up a bit - what do you expect she was testing !

Suicide, rather than assuming that the OP is just a whiny wimp, why not give her the benefit of the doubt, or at least ask for a bit of clarification before getting preachy and going all "Rex Kwon Do" on her! It sure sounds to me like she has a legitimate gripe here.

...i dont go to class to make friends i go to get my issue and thats it !

OK, dude, that's YOU talking. Not everybody takes martial arts classes to become the ultimate warrior. Maybe you think they should, but a lot of folks would disagree. Self-defense skills are important to me too, but I also train for fitness and pure love of the art I train. And then there's the fact that I do like getting out of the house and spending time with old friends at the kwoon. If that doesn't matter to you, fine. But to a lot of us, it's an important part of our guality of life. Just my 2 cents.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

Not everybody takes martial arts classes to become the ultimate warrior.

Right some people like myself go to have a rock hard *** so I can look good in spandex.

 

[melissa27]

It was a head/neck injury. I was thrown by my neck and had my head slammed into the ground and had no way of protecting myself because of the way she had my neck. My neck was injured & I had a concussion and at one point my doctor thought I had cerebral cortex damage. She could have killed or paralyzed me. It took me months to get over it and from day one I thought there was something really wrong with someone of her rank 'forgetting' to be careful with the head/neck. I still get random nose bleeds and headaches. I didn't want to work with her after that and my instructor insisted, making it seem like there was disciplinary action being taken against her. Well there wasn't and I let my guard down & she went after my head/neck a second time, and now my instructor is trying to get me to work with her *again*. Believe me, I have had my share of bumps and bruises and injuries here & there, can defend against multiple attackers, etc, and I'm certainly not a wimp or a whiner, but when it comes to the head and neck, I'm not going to get paralyzed or killed for the sake of "proving" something to somone or that I'm tough. I already know I'm tough and if any idiot went after me on the street, they are going down & won't get the opportunity to go after my head/neck. In the dojo when training, you do need to have some trust/faith in your partner that they are skilled enough not to attack vulnerable areas.

 

[grydth]

I would recommend you get out of there NOW.

Head injuries are being shown through research to be far more serious in their future effects than many ever imagined.

One goes to an MA school to learn to be safe - here, you are simply being mugged in your dojo.

While one cannot understand why your teacher insists on pairing you up with this violent nut, I cannot understand why you would ever go back. You have done everything you could reasonably do.... and more. Even if it meant giving up MA entirely (and it does not) LEAVE while you still have your life and your health.

 

[jks9199]

these things happen , like 2 years ago a heavy set female did SEOI NAGE : judo throw on me in class she lost her balance after executing it and fell with her elbow right into my chest it hurt in a funny way cause i laff´d it off but it took me like 5 to 6 months to get over it - everytime i inhaled it hurt everytime i did anything it HURT but that didnt stop me from going hard i used what ever i could to get better THE POINT IS DONT LET THAT STOP YOU - GO HARD ´LET EM KNOW YOU AINT NO JOKE GO TO CLASS AND GET YOUR ISSUE flip those negative FEELINGS into positive ones AND WHEN THE OPPORTUNITY ARISES - HANDLE YOUR BUISNESS :shooter:

Training accidents and injuries will happen, in even the most gentle of classes. Even solely doing tai chi movements, without a partner, you can still slip, or twist wrong and be injured. Harder training, or partner work, always carries a potential for accidental injuries.

But they shouldn't be treated cavalierly. The person at fault should be identified (I've got a scar from someone kicking me in the chin that was my own damn fault, for example. I was leading the exercise, he did what I told him to.), and the cause of the injury examined and addressed as appropriate. Sometimes, the cause is going to be dumb luck. Sometimes it's going to be carelessness on the part of one or both participants. But when the cause is deliberate acts, without a training justification, then there's a problem. And it needs to be addressed, not cavalierly ignored with a "these things happen" attitude. The way it's addressed can range from hitting someone going too hard for an exercise just as hard with a warning, or a verbal warning, or "personal correction" from the teacher, to expelling the student. The specifics of the incident and the school will determine that...

But there's a reason that the Cobra Kai dojo from the Karate Kid movies is the stereotype of lousy martial arts instruction...

 

[jks9199]

It was a head/neck injury. I was thrown by my neck and had my head slammed into the ground and had no way of protecting myself because of the way she had my neck. My neck was injured & I had a concussion and at one point my doctor thought I had cerebral cortex damage. She could have killed or paralyzed me. It took me months to get over it and from day one I thought there was something really wrong with someone of her rank 'forgetting' to be careful with the head/neck. I still get random nose bleeds and headaches. I didn't want to work with her after that and my instructor insisted, making it seem like there was disciplinary action being taken against her. Well there wasn't and I let my guard down & she went after my head/neck a second time, and now my instructor is trying to get me to work with her *again*. Believe me, I have had my share of bumps and bruises and injuries here & there, can defend against multiple attackers, etc, and I'm certainly not a wimp or a whiner, but when it comes to the head and neck, I'm not going to get paralyzed or killed for the sake of "proving" something to somone or that I'm tough. I already know I'm tough and if any idiot went after me on the street, they are going down & won't get the opportunity to go after my head/neck. In the dojo when training, you do need to have some trust/faith in your partner that they are skilled enough not to attack vulnerable areas.

Go elsewhere. NOW.

If you're in a contract, discuss it with a lawyer, but I suspect that you probably have very good grounds to terminate the contract. Once is an accident. The second time is deliberate action on the part of your so-called partner. The instructor insisting that you work with them is negligence.

We've had a few folks in my style and my school that have a tendency to go harder than others. There's often someone around who forgets their own strength/power or simply gets too wrapped up in the exercise... A responsible instructor knows who to pair them with... or otherwise works around that person's problems. Or sends them away...

You're in a bad situation, and you need to get out of it.

 

[K-man]

ok ? was her leg or arm broken ? did she pick her eyeball up off the ground ? what was it exactly that she felt was to much ? they pulled her gi one way to hard doesnt count ! you think her teacher is gonna be there to save her all the time ? no way maybe the teacher looked the other way : just to toughen her up a bit - what do you expect she was testing !

and to the person talking about sueing ? i would love to see you sue a crack head heroin junkie off the street trying to robb rape & murder you for 5 bucks in that case sue your self for not going to class and GOING HARD & TAKING CLASS SERIOUS i dont go to class to make friends i go to get my issue and thats it !

I can agree that we need realistic training but what you are condoning is just plain wrong. Everyone I train with has to go to work the next day. The don't want blackeyes and broken bones. They expect to come to train in a safe environment, free from unrestrained violence and intimidation. If the teacher 'looked the other way' then the teacher would also be at risk of litigation.
If what you suggest is ok was carried to its logical conclusion you would be saying it is fine to hit or kick anybody and if they happen to be smaller, weaker or older that's too bad because that is what could happen on the street. That's crap! We train to learn and practise skills that will give us a fighting chance if we are in a threatening situation and cannot walk away.
I take my classes very seriously, but I don't beat up on anybody just because I can. I train hard and I do enjoy the company of my friends who train with me. :asian:

 

[Milt G.]

If so, what kind of thing made you, or would make you, leave? I've been in my system for a few years now, and was pretty severly injured during my last test and do not like how it was handled. It's been a few months now and I just can't seen to get past it. I'm considering looking around for another school, but have invested all of this time and effort into this one & feel very torn. Any insights or personal experiences would be greatly appreciated.

Hello,

In the end it is always best to follow your heart.
It will really never let you down.

If you do decide to leave, there are many other good choices out there. You just have to find your "fit". It may even end up being where you are now.

Follow your heart.

Thanks,
Milt G.

 

[suicide]

dont take a month off show em you aint gonna let up ! if she gets ruff again raise your voice and check her _ss right in front of the whole class !

jade : dojo & streets are 2 diffrent things yes i know - but there so intertwinded that sometimes you cant seperate them SO DONT GET IT TWISTED ...

we all train in one way or another for the same reasons , im just telling her to dont back down - tell that other person right to there face : STAY THE _UCK AWAY FROM MY HEAD AND NECK ! last time im a tell you. melisa i wish i knew you and was in your class i´d put the smash( check her ) down on her 4 you - it dont take an ultimate warrior 2 speak your mind to the fullest !

jade : i salute you for filling up those spandex the way they should %-}

WHEN IT COMES TO YOUR NECK & HEAD PUT YOUR FOOT DOWN thats something very serious right there dont wait to its to late ...

 

[Jenny_in_Chico]

I don't particularly agree with suicide's reasoning or communication style. However, as much as I hate to say it, he has a point.

Issue 1: Melissa has been bullied (perhaps even attacked) by a classmate.

Issue 2: She has been betrayed by her sensei, who chose to soothe the stormy waters rather than confront the troublemaker.

Now, if Issue 1 were the only issue on the table, then suicide's reasoning would actually hold water. Confronting the troublemaker, preferably in public, would allow Melissa to face her fear and anger and banish that demon. I'm not suggesting that Melissa is physically afraid of this woman, but there must be some barrier which is preventing her from protecting herself and speaking up irrespective of what her sensei demands. What was at the core of this whole saga? Why didn't Melissa nip this aggressive interaction in the bud long ago? I'm not pointing fingers, Melissa...it hurts to admit it, but often people are bullies because they didn't get shut down from the very beginning.

However, there is Issue 2...her sensei did not protect her, which was his job. He may have actually lied, if only by omission, when he said that the troublemaker was being dealt with. He then forced Melissa to "fight" with this woman again, knowing that he really had done nothing to curb her aggression. In my opinion, this was negligent, perhaps criminally so. He betrayed her by literally throwing her to the wolves, after lying to her and saying that the wolves had muzzles on.

So, it is my opinion that Melissa should leave the dojo, not because of the bully, but because of her sensei. The trust that exists between a student and sensei can only be stretched so far before it breaks. That dojo is now poisoned for her.

However, I also respectfully suggest to Melissa that she carefully consider the part she herself played in this saga, so that it is never repeated again. You have to lay down before someone can walk on you.

Jenny

 

[Xinglu]

However, there is Issue 2...her sensei did not protect her, which was his job. He may have actually lied, if only by omission, when he said that the troublemaker was being dealt with. He then forced Melissa to "fight" with this woman again, knowing that he really had done nothing to curb her aggression. In my opinion, this was negligent, perhaps criminally so. He betrayed her by literally throwing her to the wolves, after lying to her and saying that the wolves had muzzles on.

So, it is my opinion that Melissa should leave the dojo, not because of the bully, but because of her sensei. The trust that exists between a student and sensei can only be stretched so far before it breaks. That dojo is now poisoned for her.

Exactly. This IS the actual problem. Issue one can be resolved in many ways and unfortunately happens from time to time in training halls, but issue two is what makes this truly despicable.

Because of they lies and betrayal from her instructor - it IS time to leave. That trust has been broken, and when there is no trust between teacher and student - nothing of value can be learned.