doubts about doing the right thing....

[loki09789]

Yup, it sounds like you got the short end of the stick in this one. Unfortunately in this situation, it turns into a situation where its your word against his. I do feel that you did the right thing by calling the police. The security of the club did nothing to control the situation. I do feel that the cops were very negligent and lazy in the way they took care of the situation. Funny thing is, is that you could have 20 cops and depending on who you talk to really determines the outcome.

One thing that can be learned from this, is to never turn your back on a hostile situation like that. Defiantely keep your eyes on the person until some distance is between you. Not saying that 5 min. later he couldnt have hit you, but most of the times, the sucker punch is going to happen sooner rather than later.


Mike

Long and short of it, you should not have approached the guy after you got the mic back. That is the point where you lost the idea of a 'clean shoot' situation. Regardless of what happened after that, if you had gone to your seat and tried to just enjoy the rest of the evening or (even better) left the bar and gone somewhere else the pushing/shoving that set up your sucker punch would not have happened-or would have been because they approached you (in front of witnesses) and you were always 'defending yourself.'

Wisest option (though hindsight is 20/20 in any case so take this with a grain of salt) was to simply leave when you knew that your own internal status had changed from 'fun karaoke guy' to 'must regain my pride/ego guy' and you walked up to them and invited a confrontation.

Sounds like the owner and the LEO down played it a lot more than you were comfortable with, but maybe they were recognizing that part of the situation where you approached the 'mic idiot.' Lazy? Irresponsible? I don't know wasn't there and only am working from a single perspective account. For the sake of an after action review and the goal of 'lessons learned for next time' all I can do is point out stuff that you can use.

In any situation, there is enough 'blame' to go around, but since no one was hurt badly, no one ended up in jail and the worst damage seems to be to the good old male ego, try and treat this as a "what would I do different next time" lesson so that you can actually make changes about things you are in control of - not the owner, the idiot who took the mic, the LEO or anything else - but yourself.

I can't say that I have been the 'perfect martial artists/self defense citizen' in situations like this either, but looking at it as a whole, the only change you can really make is in yourself in this case.

I am sincerely glad that it didn't result in the guy pulling a gun or you in jail. There is a good chance that had the LEO pressed charges, you would be talking your lawyer and spending way more money than you wanted to - or hearing about the same point in the incident that I mentioned but from a lawyer who is ripping your side of the story apart and getting these guys off - all at the cost of your work/mental stress/money....

 

[Sin]

You make a valid point, he didn't have to go argue with the guy. but in the long run he did the right thing by calling the cops and walking away. i am sure claping could tear this guy a new one if he really wanted too, there was no question to his skill, but a question if he did the right thing. he did the worng thing by arguing with the drunk guy cause no matter what you say to a drunk they are gonna argue and get physical, but he did the right thing by not getting violent and calling the police, and let them handle it. Only take the law into your hands when absolutly necessary. i reserched kentucky law (where I live) and it says i can use whatever means necessary to protect myself, my belongings, and fellow human beings. only if you feel there/your/its physical well being is in danger. by not throwing the first punch Clapping was entittled to hurt this guy no matter of his current state of mind was. He did not react violently, and I must Give him a pat ont he back for it. But also a word of advice "Defuse situtions" :asian:

 

[loki09789]

You make a valid point, he didn't have to go argue with the guy. but in the long run he did the right thing by calling the cops and walking away. i am sure claping could tear this guy a new one if he really wanted too, there was no question to his skill, but a question if he did the right thing. he did the worng thing by arguing with the drunk guy cause no matter what you say to a drunk they are gonna argue and get physical, but he did the right thing by not getting violent and calling the police, and let them handle it. Only take the law into your hands when absolutly necessary. i reserched kentucky law (where I live) and it says i can use whatever means necessary to protect myself, my belongings, and fellow human beings. only if you feel there/your/its physical well being is in danger. by not throwing the first punch Clapping was entittled to hurt this guy no matter of his current state of mind was. He did not react violently, and I must Give him a pat ont he back for it. But also a word of advice "Defuse situtions" :asian:

Generally speaking, use of force laws outline that, except in your own home, there is a 'duty to retreat' or avoid situations that would require deadly or less than deadly force BEFORE you are justified in the use of force. So, though I agree that he took some measure of responsibility, that one moment is the thing that needs to be identified as the moment of choice that will, in the eyes of the legal system, weaken his position if it were to go court.

He approached them instead of retreating from them.

I am not sure that Clap could take these guys on (remember that there were multiples AND there was a significant other that has to be accounted for - this is not a slam on abilities in any way). Or that there wasn't a gun or that if it had gone REALLY BAD, his significant other would not have gotten injured in the process or that these guys wouldn't have followed and harassed Clap on the road later.... you can't be 'sure' of any of this - even when you know way more about the situation than we do right now.

I do THINK that Claps later choices probably helped difuse the situation and avoid the possibilities above, but who isn't to say that these guys won't be there again and Clap won't be there at the same time and these guys will see it as 'round 2' and this time they know what Clap can do and will be sneakier/meaner about it? We don't know - especially considering that there is no charge being pressed AND the owner isn't 'banning them from the establishment'....?

Best choice overall, get out of there before you become your worst enemy or they try to 'get you later' as your walking out.

 

[Sin]

Steps to confortation


1.) See if you can leave
3.) Find an Authority figure (I.E. Police)
2.) Defend yourself others and Property with whatever force you find necessary


always try to leave first

"Defuse the situation"

 

[MJS]

Well, I have to say, that I disagree with just about your entire post. I'd like to respond to a few things here.

People, please get real.The drunkard would have never sued anyone.

And how do you know this?? There have been cases where a burglar broke into someones house, and in the process of robbing the place, gets injured, and turns around, sues for injuries and wins!!!

To blame the bar for this situation is just immature.If you go to a place were are alot of drunk people then you have to understand that sometimes things like that happen.

Wrong!! It is the responsibility of the establishment to ensure a safe environment. If someone walked into a bar drunk, and was served by the bar anyway, left the bar, got into an accident and killed someone, you can bet that the bar would be held responsible to serving the guy anyway. Regardless of what kind of establishment it is, you shouldn't have to feel like if you wanted to go for a drink, that you're going to get into a fight.

'clapping tiger' had a chance to walk away in the very beginning when he saw that the bar has not a pouncer or it looks strange, then he had the chance to ignore the insident and just leave, but he did not do it.He went over to this guy to argue.Lets look at the situation the other way...

You're putting the blame on CT for this, which IMO, he was minding his own business. The other person started the incident. Sure, he (CT) could have walked away, but he didn't. Whats done is done!

It is totaly pointles to sue anyone you don't want to waste your nerves and time on going to the cort, you could use the time for training or working or getting yourself a hobby.Its pointles you won't win and you will make a fool out of yourself again(in front of yourself)

Are you an expert in law? You'd be very surprised how many people go to court for what appears to be stupid things, and win!!

The situation was not so big and you don't solve problems like that with the law.

So how do you solve them?? Fact of the matter is, is that he was assaulted.

Judges and the other people who have to do with things like that are hard working people too-why bother them with things like that?

And I'm sure that a judge listens to much over the course of a day. Thats what they get paid to do...listen to case after case after case. If he chooses to nolle it, then fine.

You can't just run and call the cops over every singel deatail."he called me fat...im going to sue him"Im a non american and for me this seems to be pretty childish.Here in europe people go to the cort over seriouse things what they can't solve on their own like mature people. Then again there is a old saying "people cry there were it pay's to cry"

Two things here.

1- Name calling is one thing, but we're talking about an assault here.

2- You're comparing Europe to the US. 2 different places, 2 different sets of laws.

Could this situation have been handled better? Most likely, but again, whats done is done. The saying "You learn from your mistakes" comes to mind here.

Mike

 

[rmcrobertson]

Sounds like you did pretty well, all in all--I'd say a B/B+, probably about as good as I'd have done.

There IS no "Good way," to handle this stuff. There is no way to handle it that leave us feeling good, or even OK.

It's ALWAYS disturbing, no matter how advanced we are.

 

[someguy]

Avoid a fight unless the consequences are really bad.
That is my opinion.
It's a bit over simplified but there it is.

 

[Enson]

i can imagine what you wen through. just think on how close this guy got to having his life flash before his eyes. remember that you are a weapon that can cause even yourself lots of problems. its good that you took the ma'r way out and the self discipline paid off. good job.

reminds me of that movie con-air

peace

 

[8253]

I couldnt say that i would have done it the same or differently. Except maybe for turning my back to the guy, but then again sometimes in a situation of this sort, adrenaline can get the best of a person. I do beleive that it takes more courage not to fight.

 

[8253]

Oh, and one other thing. Dont worry so much about him or anyone else thinking that they beat you. As long as you know what the truth is and you know that you have done the right thing in the end, it dosent matter what anyone else thinks.

 

[Blooming Lotus]

A lot of people think a lot of crap, all the time. Dont let this get to you. It is a complete non-issue. Never let machismo get in the way of common sense

...

Great statement!!

Remember that we are martial artists and trained in combat to hurt ppl. THe guy was walking away and it was not defence by that stage, it would've been revenge! Besides my buddhist pacifism, we have this thing called laws and regardless of anyone elses stance on what happened ( including the cop taking the report), you just can't go around assaulting ppl , whether they "deserve" it or not.

It happens to the best of the us in various situations ( temptation to slip one in or comprimise our character) , but you are a person who obeys laws and does the right thing ( or acts fairly at a min ) , or in this instance you're a thug and criminal.

Nice call

Blooming Lotus

 

[shesulsa]

I also like this one:

Oh, and one other thing. Dont worry so much about him or anyone else thinking that they beat you. As long as you know what the truth is and you know that you have done the right thing in the end, it dosent matter what anyone else thinks.

Good show.

 

[Sin]

If I where you clapping i woul jsut forget about it and not let it get to me. Its really not worth it....Its over anyways

 

[An Eternal Student]

You did the right thing dude.And I can perfectly understand the sentiment of wanting to whoop his ***.Its best to save it for a fight that's worth it.

 

[clapping_tiger]

Wow, it looks like there are 2 defined sides on an issue like this. In short they are these.

1. Nobody was seriously hurt so don't do anything and move on.
2. An assault is an assault and even though both sides were at fault, 1 more so than the other.

To me now this is a non-issue, but I do have another point I want to bring up that one of people we were out with that night brought up. Forget who was right and who was wrong, the point is I didn't really get physical with the guy, but he could have and must have perceived me as threatening him, I don't blame him. But the fact is he threw a punch to my head. What this person brought up to me was what if he would have got lucky and hit me in let's say the temple just the right way, or he hit me and knocked me down and I hit my head on the bar, or the floor, ect. What if for some reason his punch caused some sort of brain damage. Just because I was not hurt does not make it OK. A punch to the head is a punch to the head. It is meant to cause damage, weather it did or not is a non-issue. If that were true someone could go around hurting people as long as he were careful not to cause injury, only pain. Pressing charges was the right thing to do. And hopefully he learned maybe to think twice about hitting people who are turning away. I found out he got a 300 and some dollar fine for Battery. Granted, he did not hit me hard enough to do anything to me, but he intended to do damage. And it was his intent that was wrong, I was turning away.

And as far as being able to tear this guy up, I would like to think I could have, but in a street fight there are so many variables you really never know. Like stated before, he did have some friends there. I am sure they would not just stand by and watch a friend get pummeled. It is not a question on if I think my skills are good enough or not, it's just you never know.

And by the way, I would never take any offense to someone stating his or her opinion. As long as they don't rip into me calling me an idiot, or something along those lines. It's all good.

 

[Blooming Lotus]

I hear what your sdaying but if you're going to drink and want to get cheeky , it's probably a good idea to stay alert enough that if you don't want to get hit you can still defend the attack.



I think if I spoke to someone like that, I'd be aware of what they were doing and where they were until they were out of range.



BL