Any good advice to a non ground fighter??

[crazydiamond]

Yuck.

We are talking self defense and not ring fight right?

 

[crazydiamond]

 

[Steve]

Can't see the video. What's it about?

 

[crazydiamond]

Can't see the video. What's it about?

Basically Bruce Lee saying and or showing if your on the ground - about to be hurt badly - do what you need to do - bite.

In fact in my own class we had a ground session where my teacher said - "watch where your leg is - you can be bit"

 

[Steve]

Ah ok. I still think yuck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hanzou]

Bite a chunk out of what ever you can sink your teeth into ?

If you don't care about losing your teeth, and possibly escalating the violence to the point where your face gets turned to hamburger, sure.

A better idea is to learn how to escape the chokes, holds, and positions. There's an escape for each and every one of them, and they're more reliable than attempting to bite from an inferior position.

However, if you're unskilled, desperate, or simply screwed, then yeah, bite away.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If you don't care about losing your teeth, and possibly escalating the violence to the point where your face gets turned to hamburger, sure.

A better idea is to learn how to escape the chokes, holds, and positions. There's an escape for each and every one of them, and they're more reliable than attempting to bite from an inferior position.

However, if you're unskilled, desperate, or simply screwed, then yeah, bite away.

It also depends on how much training that you have put into your "biting".

Beginner level: Get a raw pig leg and sink your teeth all the way into the bone.
Intermediate level: Try to bite a dog's leg off, or a snake's head off before it gets you.
Advance level: Go to a zoo and test your biting skill against tiger or lion.

Whenever your opponent applies "arm bar" on you, his leg is always close to your mouth. If you have AIDS, your biting will be very powerful.

If you can bite one of your opponent's fingers off his hand, the amount of blood and also the fear that he will lose that finger for the rest of his life will make him to give up that fighting.

If you have watched "The Shawshank Redemption" movie, you will agree how powerful a biting can be.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

One should never underestimate the power of "biting". Watch this clip between 18.48 - 19.25.

"Anything that you put into my mouth, you are going to lose it ..."

 

[drop bear]

It also depends on how much training that you have put into your "biting".

Beginner level: Get a raw pig leg and sink your teeth all the way into the bone.
Intermediate level: Try to bite a dog's leg off, or a snake's head off before it gets you.
Advance level: Go to a zoo and test your biting skill against tiger or lion.

Whenever your opponent applies "arm bar" on you, his leg is always close to your mouth. If you have AIDS, your biting will be very powerful.

If you can bite one of your opponent's fingers off his hand, the amount of blood and also the fear that he will lose that finger for the rest of his life will make him to give up that fighting.

If you have watched "The Shawshank Redemption" movie, you will agree how powerful a biting can be.

Can you bite through a persons leg? That is a big muscle. He only need a second to break that arm. You are going to hurt him. But it will take a while to damage that leg to the point where you can get out.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Can you bite through a persons leg? That is a big muscle. He only need a second to break that arm. You are going to hurt him. But it will take a while to damage that leg to the point where you can get out.

For that "biting vs. arm bar" situation, more testing will be needed in order to draw the conclusion whether arm bar can cause more pain, or biting can cause more pain.

You should not wait for your opponent to get you into an arm bar before you start biting. You should start your biting when the ground game start. Also biting should be your "additional solution" and should not be your "main solution".

But if you don't have any ground skill, to have biting skill will be better than nothing.

 

[crazydiamond]

If you don't care about losing your teeth, and possibly escalating the violence to the point where your face gets turned to hamburger, sure.

A better idea is to learn how to escape the chokes, holds, and positions. There's an escape for each and every one of them, and they're more reliable than attempting to bite from an inferior position.

However, if you're unskilled, desperate, or simply screwed, then yeah, bite away.

yes - My response was assuming this was a true self defense situation (not on the mat), were your pinned on the ground being beaten horribly, or your health and life is at risk, and you don't have the ground skills. Bite, eye gouge, what have you.

 

[Hanzou]

yes - My response was assuming this was a true self defense situation (not on the mat), were your pinned on the ground being beaten horribly, or your health and life is at risk, and you don't have the ground skills. Bite, eye gouge, what have you.

Which comes back to my earlier point; if you're concerned about having to fight off the ground, why not simply learn some ground skills? That way, you won't have to rely on biting or eye gouging.

There's a lot of positions where there's almost no chance to pull off a bite or a gouge. Someone sitting on top of your chest or back dropping bombs on your face and head for example.

 

[Hanzou]

It also depends on how much training that you have put into your "biting".

Beginner level: Get a raw pig leg and sink your teeth all the way into the bone.
Intermediate level: Try to bite a dog's leg off, or a snake's head off before it gets you.
Advance level: Go to a zoo and test your biting skill against tiger or lion.

Whenever your opponent applies "arm bar" on you, his leg is always close to your mouth. If you have AIDS, your biting will be very powerful.

If you can bite one of your opponent's fingers off his hand, the amount of blood and also the fear that he will lose that finger for the rest of his life will make him to give up that fighting.

If you have watched "The Shawshank Redemption" movie, you will agree how powerful a biting can be.

I mean, if you think a bite will get him to release the lock, go for it. At that point your pretty screwed either way. In all reality, the shock from the bite will cause him to crank your arm even harder, snapping it.

I agree that the best advice is to not end up in an arm bar. However, if you're not trained, you're not going to know how to avoid an arm bar in the first place.

 

[marques]

Cut distance, embrasse him if he is 'low' (and them you will have other problems...). If he is 'high', make him jump 'up' with your hips (and hands). If he is well 'centred'... No very easy way, I guess. Try push hard left (and usually isn't enough), then 'explosively' change and push right (and help with hips this time; your hand is already there before...). He should fall to the side easily.

Isn't easy to explain more than that by worlds. Basically, as in Aikido (I'm right??) you should be moving, and to know where to go. But I will not control you with Aikido techniques, even if you give me the best tricks.

There is one very easy way that I love to show (because it's VERY easy at it seems that no one no (and use) it! Sadly I don't find the video (I don't know the technique name). That is a body choke with legs on the floating ribs. (Not clear, I guess.) He just can't be much bigger than you. If I want to 'win' this is my first choice. 0,5 secondes, no risk. Plan B if it doesn't work for some reason...

Or... try it:

(joke)

 

[Steve]

I think we're talking about defense from under mount, not guard. In mount, your opponent's hips are in front of yours, meaning your legs are not in a position to squeeze the ribs.

This is a tough one, and I've avoided chiming in, not because I don't know counters/escapes from under mount. Really, it's just that it's never, ever easy. The defense Tony shared is BJJ 101 and it's solid. There are others where you can regain guard, which would then give you a lot more options for engaging or disengaging. But the truth is, under mount is just a crappy place to be, and the only good way to learn to deal with it is to be there often and just practice.

Rather than share a specific technique, I'll just share some general guidelines that I find helpful.

In general, the further your elbows are from your body, the less strength you have in your arm. I try to think about using what I call T-Rex arms when defending. You are stronger against a heavier/stronger opponent when you build a strong frame with your arms rather than trying to push your opponent away. This is also true when executing techniques like Tony described. When you trap your opponent's arm with your own, think about pinching your elbow in tight to your side. It's going to make your control over his arm much tighter and you will be much stronger.

In general, it's easier to move yourself than to move your opponent. Often, the guy on top has all the leverage and gravity to help them. If you need your arm to over or underhook his, move yourself to where you can do that, rather than trying to drag his arm to where you need him. If your hips should be under his, (such as on a sweep or reversal), rather than off to one side, do what you need to do to move your hips to where they need to be, rather than trying to drag him where you want him. This sounds straightforward, but when grappling, you would be amazed at how many techniques fail because the person is trying to move the other guy rather than simply move himself.

In general, look for or create a dead angle on a reverse. Basically, just look for the flat side. In the technique Tony outlined, you're creating an opportunity to reverse the position by controlling the top guy's arm and leg on the same side so he can't "base out." he's flat on that side. Someone sitting in seiza is pretty stable, sitting back on the heels with the knees out forming a stable triangle on the mat. If you were to try and push him to either side or straight back, he would easily resist. But if you push him to a 45 degree angle, he'd fall over pretty easily. This simple concept of dead angles is at the root of most sweeps or reversals.

Don't forget to breathe.

Don't forget that on the ground you have arms and legs and a head. That's five tools that can help you create and control space, including the space you'll need to disengage.

Hopefully this helps. As I said before, this is such a tough situation, and truthfully, the technique Tony shared is solid, but I would not expect that a 120 lbs female would be able to successfully execute this against a 200 lbs male without some training.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I mean, if you think a bite will get him to release the lock, go for it. At that point your pretty screwed either way.

If you don't bite at that moment, your opponent will still break your arm any way. If you know that you will be killed, you want to at least take some of your opponent's fresh and blood with you.

Either Shuai Chiao (SC) or Judo are requirement course for the 4 years Central Police University in Taiwan. Before those police officers can graduate , they will need to compete a wrestling tournament to prove their skill and obtain black belt. Since the SC class didn't teach ground skill but the Judo class did, some SC students used biting in their ground game. When that happen, the chief Judo referee and the chief SC referee had a big argument. They finally went to the head of the university.

- The SC chief referee (my teacher) asked, "Are we teaching our police officer how to survival in the street?"
- The chancellor said, "Yes."
- My teacher then asked, "When a criminal got an arm bar on our police officer, if our police officer just tapped, will that criminal let our police officer go free?"

My teacher won that argument. In that university, the biting was then part of the ground game since then.

Here is an old picture to prove that "biting" was taught to the students. That's exactly the "arm bar" position.

 

[marques]

@Steve, Good observation / correction. Thanks. Too much fluidit in my brain...
Well, at least the other suggestions are (actually) from the correct position.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

There is one very easy way that I love to show (because it's VERY easy at it seems that no one no (and use) it! Sadly I don't find the video (I don't know the technique name). That is a body choke with legs on the floating ribs. (Not clear, I guess.) He just can't be much bigger than you. If I want to 'win' this is my first choice. 0,5 secondes, no risk.

It sounds like you are talking about Do-jime, which is banned in Judo for some reason.

It's not likely to get great results against anyone who has a strong core or is bigger than you.

 

[Hanzou]

If you don't bite at that moment, your opponent will still break your arm any way. If you know that you will be killed, you want to at least take some of your opponent's fresh and blood with you.

Either Shuai Chiao (SC) or Judo are requirement course for the 4 years Central Police University in Taiwan. Before those police officers can graduate , they will need to compete a wrestling tournament to prove their skill and obtain black belt. Since the SC class didn't teach ground skill but the Judo class did, some SC students used biting in their ground game. When that happen, the chief Judo referee and the chief SC referee had a big argument. They finally went to the head of the university.

- The SC chief referee (my teacher) asked, "Are we teaching our police officer how to survival in the street?"
- The chancellor said, "Yes."
- My teacher then asked, "When a criminal got an arm bar on our police officer, if our police officer just tapped, will that criminal let our police officer go free?"

My teacher won that argument. In that university, the biting was then part of the ground game since then.

Here is an old picture to prove that "biting" was taught to the students. That's exactly the "arm bar" position.

Yeah, I have no doubt it was taught, I just have a real issue substituting technical skill with biting. You're simply not going to be able to bite your way out of a bad situation. Better to learn to avoid getting in that position in the first place.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Yeah, I have no doubt it was taught, I just have a real issue substituting technical skill with biting. You're simply not going to be able to bite your way out of a bad situation. Better to learn to avoid getting in that position in the first place.

Not "substitute" but "addition". The ground skill and biting doesn't have to be mutually exclusive.

biting + ground skill > ground skill
biting + nothing > nothing

When a Judo guy trains "single leg", he will not try to substitute his Judo by "single leg".

single leg + Judo > judo