Anti-grappling.

[K-man]

The most ironic thing about this is that if you actually understood grappling, you would end up back on your feet a lot faster on your own terms.

The less you know about grappling, the longer you're going to be where you don't want to be.

OMG! Something I can agree with. You're not really trying.

An anecdote that doesn't disprove my statement in the slightest.

An anecdote that links in to the real world. Sometimes you will end up on the ground. I'm sure I remember you stating the 'fact' that most fights end up on the ground. The only difference is that you want to stay on the ground.

I don't think there's such a thing as a "typical" SD situation.

I'm feeling faint. That's two in a day.

 

[drop bear]

I don't think anyone is trying to change what happened, or say that Ryan's actions weren't mostly appropriate, but I thought it was important to acknowledge those factors that made it appropriate.

Which comes down again to this basic idea that sometimes going to the ground is OK and sometimes it is ill advised. But that is not a the street situation but a case by case basis.

It is not really an argument you can just point at grappling.

 

[drop bear]

I'm with mostly with drop bear here. If I'm being taken to the ground I want my primary opponent with me so I can still have control. If I am knocked down without the ability to control my opponent it gets more difficult as I am more vulnerable to attack while regaining my feet, which of course is why we train specific ways to regain your feet.
:asian:

And I think for most people it will happen instinctively anyway as they fall they are grabbing for something.

 

[drop bear]

Not swapping sides here but avoiding a clinch is not all that easy unless you do a lot of training to avoid it. Then you get an unexpected attack and you have a clinch anyway. I would modify the statement to "try to avoid the clinch". (Geoff Thompson has some very good 'fence' material if anyone is interested in that aspect of training.)

Second part I would say is almost impossible. If someone has you in a clinch it would not be easy to get a joint lock on them as in a clinch everything is locked in tight.

Third part, I agree totally but again it takes a lot of training to get to that level. We call it 'maintaining your centre'.

Fourth part, again not always an easy option especially if your opponent has some grappling experience. Counter throw certainly, but be prepared to be taken down at the same time. Rather than struggle to maintain your feet I would prefer to go to the ground with a knee or elbow to the neck etc. then regain my feet ASAP.

When you say "avoid clinch" as the priority I'm in agreement on one hand and struggling on the other. In a SD situation I firstly want to get away, therefore avoid clinch. If I am committed to fight, my training is to clinch, on my terms, to gain control.
:asian:

I don't think a fence is all that good against the collar tie by the way. But I am going to play with it.


Head control and hand fighting would be wrestling's anti grapple.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys9tmw3TIEU

 

[K-man]

And I think for most people it will happen instinctively anyway as they fall they are grabbing for something.

You are spot on with this. As they fall they will grab for support. Coming from Aikido, I train, and teach, to totally relax as they try to grab. When they find no support they generally let go to use their hands/arms to cushion their fall. Normally they will try to grab your arms and most times they will let go. The times they are more likely to pull you down are if they can grab your clothing or neck.
:asian:

 

[K-man]

I don't think a fence is all that good against the collar tie by the way. But I am going to play with it.


Head control and hand fighting would be wrestling's anti grapple.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys9tmw3TIEU

The collar tie is the bread and butter of Krav. Once you have that there is no way the 'fence' will protect you. But it's interesting. In your video the yellow guy is alternating between the fence and a collar tie. The fence protects you against someone attacking you when you don't really want to engage. The collar tie is a great alternate way of controlling your opponent when he attacks you and you want to fight.
:asian:

 

[drop bear]

The collar tie is the bread and butter of Krav. Once you have that there is no way the 'fence' will protect you. But it's interesting. In your video the yellow guy is alternating between the fence and a collar tie. The fence protects you against someone attacking you when you don't really want to engage. The collar tie is a great alternate way of controlling your opponent when he attacks you and you want to fight.
:asian:

Yeah the fence resembles that basic wrestling stance. It just depends how far you want to go into the game side of head control and hand fighting.

For me the more I investigate it the more benefit I get.

 

[K-man]

Yeah the fence resembles that basic wrestling stance. It just depends how far you want to go into the game side of head control and hand fighting.

For me the more I investigate it the more benefit I get.

From my point of view having that collar tie protects you from a head butt while you still have the head butt as an option, but from that position we are normally driving the knee in to groin, abdomen, chest etc. to bend him over. Once he is bent over to protect from the knee we are smashing the back of the neck with the forearm. For me it is a really high value technique.
:asian:

 

[drop bear]

From my point of view having that collar tie protects you from a head butt while you still have the head butt as an option, but from that position we are normally driving the knee in to groin, abdomen, chest etc. to bend him over. Once he is bent over to protect from the knee we are smashing the back of the neck with the forearm. For me it is a really high value technique.
:asian:

Well ditto pretty much. Apart from a few semantic differences.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

From my point of view having that collar tie protects you from a head butt while you still have the head butt as an option, but from that position we are normally driving the knee in to groin, abdomen, chest etc. to bend him over. Once he is bent over to protect from the knee we are smashing the back of the neck with the forearm. For me it is a really high value technique.
:asian:

I like to use one arm to control my opponent's head and use another arm to control one of his arms. I don't like double neck tie and use both of my arms to control my opponent's head. If my opponent wraps his arms around my double neck tie, I'll be in trouble.

Also if I have single neck tie with arm wrap, I want to take down my opponent right at that moment. My knee strike may give him a chance to get hold of my leg. I don't like to take that chance.

 

[K-man]

I like to use one arm to control my opponent's head and use another arm to control one of his arms. I don't like double neck tie and use both of my arms to control my opponent's head. If my opponent wraps his arms around my double neck tie, I'll be in trouble.

Also if I have single neck tie with arm wrap, I want to take down my opponent right at that moment. My knee strike may give him a chance to get hold of my leg. I don't like to take that chance.

We do a little with the double neck tie in karate because it is part if the bunkai. In Krav the single neck tie is on the other side of the neck from your picture. In other words the right arm would be where the left arm is in this picture. That ties him up, puts you off his line and protects you from the head butt. Done like that he has no chance to grab the leg and if he does reach down you just go for the neck. Even with your leg he can't lift it as he would be trying to lift both of us.
:asian:

 

[drop bear]

We do a little with the double neck tie in karate because it is part if the bunkai. In Krav the single neck tie is on the other side of the neck from your picture. In other words the right arm would be where the left arm is in this picture. That ties him up, puts you off his line and protects you from the head butt. Done like that he has no chance to grab the leg and if he does reach down you just go for the neck. Even with your leg he can't lift it as he would be trying to lift both of us.
:asian:

You would need the over hook.

So over hook same head control as the Thai clinch. Get your forehead into their temple and grind it. It is increadably painfull.

You can use it as a restraint and control if you want.

 

[K-man]

You would need the over hook.

So over hook same head control as the Thai clinch. Get your forehead into their temple and grind it. It is increadably painfull.

You can use it as a restraint and control if you want.

Is this what you mean? The bit I am describing is about 0:50 on this clip.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=brYgHlH6h0s

 

[RTKDCMB]

I'm with mostly with drop bear here. If I'm being taken to the ground I want my primary opponent with me so I can still have control. If I am knocked down without the ability to control my opponent it gets more difficult as I am more vulnerable to attack while regaining my feet, which of course is why we train specific ways to regain your feet.
:asian:

On both occasions I did not have much of a choice either way. The first time I was caught by surprise with a front kick and two punches and I fired out a kick to the knee and then stood up and he seemed to disappear into thin air. The second time we were into the wrestling (so to speak) phase of the fight and I ended up on my back and he tried to get on top of me and I used 3 front thrust kicks (up kicks) to prevent him getting on top and got to one knee before he got close again. Then I did 2 uppercuts from the half kneeling position and then a knee to the ribs as I stood up.

 

[drop bear]

Is this what you mean? The bit I am describing is about 0:50 on this clip.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=brYgHlH6h0s

No my one is a bit nastier.keep the standard tie on the head. It is just a tweek we use.

 

[Steve]

OMG! Something I can agree with. You're not really trying.
I'm feeling faint. That's two in a day.

I think you're finally starting to understand. That's good to see, K-man.

 

[K-man]

I think you're finally starting to understand. That's good to see, K-man.

Mate, as you have been quick to pick up, I am a slow learner.

 

[Hanzou]

A group of Kung Fu practitioners discuss how to stop the takedown, with mixed results;

 

[drop bear]

A group of Kung Fu practitioners discuss how to stop the takedown, with mixed results;

Lol. Sprawl cross face over hook.

Ftw.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

It is always good to see people addressing how to defend against a takedown. That is very important.
This video could have been so much better if they had a practitioner on their who actually was a grappler
and could show them how someone who knows what they are doing sets up their takedown. This comes back
to what several have pointed out please work with someone who has extensive grappling experience so that
they can show you nuances to pick up for your grappling defense.

The half sprawl can work but it needs to be applied with in a heavier manner. Otherwise an experienced grappler
will really drive through it and take you down or switch mid stream to a double leg with a leg wrap and yet again
you are taken down.

As everyone who does grapple here has mentioned time and again having the sprawl in your arsenal of defense
against a double, single leg takedown is essential. Really getting those legs back far, pushing your pelvis down and
getting your biceps on their shoulder on the inside is very, very important. Otherwise an experienced takedown
artist will just drive through and you will be on your back!