Anger

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by Michael Billings
I agree in a rational logical way with Mr. Buonfiglio. But there can be times when that calm or "mind like the moon" or "mind like water" as the Japanese refer to it, is not obtainable.

I think there is a hightened state of awareness in which you can channel your energy into what I call "Positive Aggression". I have heard lots of stories from lots of people, including SGM Parker, calmness never seemed to be a state they were in when they got in a real fight, outside of the tournament setting.

In re-reading Marcus's post, maybe the "... combat mindset which in of itself triggers the fight or flight response and allows the mind unrestricted and unfiltered response to the stimuli of combat"; is similar to my concept of positive aggression. I agree that the control of emotions is the ideal to strive and train for (unless you are a Taoist of course), but best not be unfamiliar with emotions which may arise in actual combat ... but you never felt in your school, tournaments, or any other setting.

Just something else to think about.

-Michael

Or would this be what Bruce Lee was talking about when he spoke of, "Controlled Violence"?

--Dave

:asian:

 

[theletch1]

Given what everyone else has posted here I have the following question that seems to go hand in hand with the original... Is there the possibility that, in controlling your anger or other emotions, you can reach a point of emotional detachment that causes you to underestimate/disregard the danger that you are in during an altercation? Is anger or fear actually a necessary thing to force your body to do those things that are needed in a survival situation? How much of the speed, strength and tenacity that you have during a fight come from the adrenaline dump caused by anger or fear?

Just a thought. :asian:

 

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by theletch1
Given what everyone else has posted here I have the following question that seems to go hand in hand with the original... Is there the possibility that, in controlling your anger or other emotions, you can reach a point of emotional detachment that causes you to underestimate/disregard the danger that you are in during an altercation? Is anger or fear actually a necessary thing to force your body to do those things that are needed in a survival situation? How much of the speed, strength and tenacity that you have during a fight come from the adrenaline dump caused by anger or fear?

Just a thought. :asian:

Fear causes anger.
Anger causes Adrenalin dump.
Adrenal Dump causes Adrenal Stress
Adrenal stress causes Loss

Tenacity should come from individual determination, not from anger. Adrenal stress causes all sorts of s**t to happen within our bodies, that pretty much set us up for an *** whoopin' if our opponent is more in control than we are.

If we control our fear, we get no anger.If we get no anger, we can focus on the job at hand. That is, finish the altercation efficiently and effectively, and go home to our families.

--Dave

:asian:

 

[Mark L]

Originally posted by D.Cobb
Adrenal stress causes all sorts of s**t to happen within our bodies, that pretty much set us up for an *** whoopin' if our opponent is more in control than we are.

:asian:

Perhaps it only sets you up for an *** whoopin' if you're unfamiliar with your mind and bodies reaction.

There are a few drills that my instructor uses that have gotten me goin' pretty good. I'm not sure if that was his intent or not, but the first few times it was mostly me losing my head and getting thumped. But I'm getting used to it. Well, maybe not used to it, rather I'm just recognizing it when it comes and not letting it take over. Its like a switch is thrown and I'm instantly enraged, instead of completely losing it I try to focus the energy to resolve the situation. It amazes me how quickly this all happens. Mostly it gets me very agressive (I have to be real careful with control when this happens), but still with a bit of situational awareness.

I wonder if the adrenal response is binary? Or are there degrees of it? Does the body dump it all in every time? I'm wondering whether what I feel in the dojo approximates what I'd feel on the street.

 

[Marcus Buonfiglio]

Originally posted by theletch1
Given what everyone else has posted here I have the following question that seems to go hand in hand with the original... Is there the possibility that, in controlling your anger or other emotions, you can reach a point of emotional detachment that causes you to underestimate/disregard the danger that you are in during an altercation? Is anger or fear actually a necessary thing to force your body to do those things that are needed in a survival situation? How much of the speed, strength and tenacity that you have during a fight come from the adrenaline dump caused by anger or fear?

A good question. It is my opinion that a state of emotional detachment is what you should strive for. Although I admit it is easier said than done. Some people have conditioned themselves to channel other emotions (fear, embarressment, emotional hurt, etc.) into anger as a self defense mechanism which does trigger the fight or flight response. As we have all experienced at on time or another, that channeling has gotten us into trouble that we haden't anticipated.
When a situation presents itself that meets the criteria for which I will fight, my experience has been that anger is an emotion that doesnt surface. The FFR kicks in with all the chemical and physical changes that take place as a result of the percieved threat but I feel calm and clear headed. A state of emotional detachment provedes a clear channel fo stimuli and response. Dealing with the threat now becomes mechanical in it's application. It isn't untill after the situation is resolved that I get the shakes and feelings that I have to deal with as a result if it's aftermath. That is when the feelings of anger or remorse or embarressment at what I was forced to do have to be delt with. It is why I said in an earlier post that you fully have to explore why you will fight and why you will kill. The emotional and spiritual aftermath can be overwhelming if you are not clear on this issue. Understand that I am speaking from and about personal expierence during street confrontations. In speaking with those that have experienced military combat, their perception, although similar in some ways, are drastically different in others.

 

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by Mark L
Perhaps it only sets you up for an *** whoopin' if you're unfamiliar with your mind and bodies reaction.

That's why I said, "If our opponent is more in control than we are."

There are a few drills that my instructor uses that have gotten me goin' pretty good. I'm not sure if that was his intent or not, but the first few times it was mostly me losing my head and getting thumped. But I'm getting used to it. Well, maybe not used to it, rather I'm just recognizing it when it comes and not letting it take over. Its like a switch is thrown and I'm instantly enraged, instead of completely losing it I try to focus the energy to resolve the situation. It amazes me how quickly this all happens. Mostly it gets me very agressive (I have to be real careful with control when this happens), but still with a bit of situational awareness.

That is entirely the point of drills. It allows us to create a muscle memory, for when our cognitive process' shut down. As you say here, you don't lose it, you focus your energy. But if you have time to think about anything, then the situation is either not realistic(dojo), or you have time to walk away(street).

I wonder if the adrenal response is binary? Or are there degrees of it?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by binary, so I can't comment.

Does the body dump it all in every time? I'm wondering whether what I feel in the dojo approximates what I'd feel on the street.

If you haven't trained realistically to handle these kinds of situations, then the effects of the dump are more noticable. You know cognative processing is gone. The hips lock up. The knees go stiff and straight. Your depth perception is suspect to say the least. Your breathing goes shallow, etc. When you have trained for it, you are more able to controll the effects of the dump. You know, you keep your head and focus more with intent. You still need to move too fast for conscious thought process, to be of any use, but you can maintain your breathing and posture toward ensuring a favourable outcome.
And yes, from my experiences when I was a security officer, the real situations do hit you in much the same way as the dojo scenarios.

Just my $0.02 worth.

--Dave

:asian:

 

[Elfan]

To me fighting is all about choosing, and anger does not help but hinders that.
-----
Ph34r |34d5 70 4n93r... 4n93r |34d5 70 h473... h473 |34d5 70 5uph3r1n9

 

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by Elfan
To me fighting is all about choosing, and anger does not help but hinders that.

Yep, amen to that!

--Dave
:asian:

 

[Mark L]

Originally posted by D.Cobb



I'm not exactly sure what you mean by binary, so I can't comment.

:asian:

By binary I mean there are only two states: No adrenaline, or all of it. In the dojo my body reacts to the adrenaline dump in a certain way. The question (which I think you answered, Dave) is if a real situation would result in the same adrenal reaction, or if it might be more or less intense. Thanks for your reply.

 

[Michael Billings]

In computerese, (that esoteric language used by programmers), 1's or 0's were the only 2 digits used by computers in processing. Of course tens of thousands of these "Yes" or "No" (On or Off) "decisions" went into any type of calculation. And students from long ago had to know how to feed this to the computer to get the calculation they needed.

So when referring to Adrenaline, or a heightened state of readiness, physically, mentally or emotionally, there is ON or OFF.

There are lots of grey areas where the arousal level is not at full "ON". But I think, he is referring to a life or death situation in which a total adrenal dump ocurred.

Oss,
-Michael

-Michael

 

[satans.barber]

If you're bored enough...

http://www.satansbarber.co.uk/computing/binary.htm



Ian.

 

[stacks]

fighting in an angered state I feel is very dangerous. you must control your anger or you will get tunnel vision and not be prepared for what may come. in your mind you must go slow (much like a race car driver, things around him are very fast, but in his mind it is like a chess game one thing will lead to another if properly planned, most people who drive angry get in accidents)
try to defuse any situation first, remeber our skills are to be used as a last resort

Stacks :asian: