An interesting realistic read about M.A.

[Tez3]

Didn't see any specific argument, just a blanket statement.

The second definition applies.

argument
ˈɑːɡjʊm(ə)nt/
noun
noun: argument; plural noun: arguments

1. 1.
   an exchange of diverging or opposite views, typically a heated or angry one.
   
   
2. 2.
   a reason or set of reasons given in support of an idea, action or theory.
   "there is a strong argument for submitting a formal appeal"
   synonyms: reasoning, line of reasoning, logic, case; More
   defence, justification, vindication, apology, explanation, rationalization;
   evidence, reasons, grounds;
   argumentation, polemic;
   assertion, declaration, claim, plea, contention, expostulation, demonstration
   "his arguments for the existence of God"

 

[FriedRice]

The second definition applies.

argument
ˈɑːɡjʊm(ə)nt/
noun
noun: argument; plural noun: arguments

1. 1.
   an exchange of diverging or opposite views, typically a heated or angry one.
   
   
2. 2.
   a reason or set of reasons given in support of an idea, action or theory.
   "there is a strong argument for submitting a formal appeal"
   synonyms: reasoning, line of reasoning, logic, case; More
   defence, justification, vindication, apology, explanation, rationalization;
   evidence, reasons, grounds;
   argumentation, polemic;
   assertion, declaration, claim, plea, contention, expostulation, demonstration
   "his arguments for the existence of God"

You're confused between the definition of an argument and that of an argument itself.

 

[Tez3]

You're confused between the definition of an argument and that of an argument itself.

Sigh, if you say so ...because I don't have the crayons available to explain it all to you, you put forward the idea that UFC1 proved something, your argument ie your reasoning is unsound therefore your argument for UFC1 proven your point is unsound. Keep up.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You're confused between the definition of an argument and that of an argument itself.

No, I think not. Her usage is consistent with the definition. You presented what can be interpreted as an argument on one side of this debate.

 

[Steve]

Using the early UFCs which were 'biased' towards certain people winning (worked fights)probably isn't a compelling argument.

Whoa, this old thing again?

 

[drop bear]

Whoa, this old thing again?

Is this one of those things where the color of the mats favored grappling or something?

 

[Steve]

Is this one of those things where the color of the mats favored grappling or something?

Haha. Something like that. I think it's an idea that the rules favored Royce, or maybe that the competitors were hand picked to ensure he could beat them all.

I don't know. I just remember some tough judo, sambo and shooto guys, along with the oddballs you would expect. I have the first 11 on video and I don't think the fix was in.

 

[drop bear]

Haha. Something like that. I think it's an idea that the rules favored Royce, or maybe that the competitors were hand picked to ensure he could beat them all.

I don't know. I just remember some tough judo, sambo and shooto guys, along with the oddballs you would expect. I have the first 11 on video and I don't think the fix was in.

I looked back on Gracie/kimo. He lost that royce didn't win it.

Royce got swept out of mount for flips sake.

 

[CB Jones]

Haha. Something like that. I think it's an idea that the rules favored Royce, or maybe that the competitors were hand picked to ensure he could beat them all.

I don't know. I just remember some tough judo, sambo and shooto guys, along with the oddballs you would expect. I have the first 11 on video and I don't think the fix was in.

Mainly that in the beginning a lot of the competitors weren't professional fighters. Lot of body guards, stunt men, etc....for the most part it was your regular ensemble for a tough man competition... and the Gracies started it mainly for an infomercial for the GBJJ.

I mean they had a guy fight with one boxing glove on.....

 

[Paul_D]

Haha. Something like that. I think it's an idea that the rules favored Royce, or maybe that the competitors were hand picked to ensure he could beat them all.

I don't know. I just remember some tough judo, sambo and shooto guys, along with the oddballs you would expect. I have the first 11 on video and I don't think the fix was in.

Was it to do with there not being any round, so strikers didn't get the chance to get back to their feet?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Is this one of those things where the color of the mats favored grappling or something?

Wait, what??? Crap! I need to order new mats!

 

[Steve]

Mainly that in the beginning a lot of the competitors weren't professional fighters. Lot of body guards, stunt men, etc....for the most part it was your regular ensemble for a tough man competition... and the Gracies started it mainly for an infomercial for the GBJJ.

I mean they had a guy fight with one boxing glove on.....

Some, not all. Royce, at that time was also not a pro fighter. But many legit martial artists. Ken Shamrock was a legit guy. I'm on an iPad, which makes typing at length a pain. But there were several guys who were well trained and very capable. Sambo, judo, wrestling. The first 10 events were pretty wide open.

 

[CB Jones]

Some, not all. Royce, at that time was also not a pro fighter. But many legit martial artists. Ken Shamrock was a legit guy. I'm on an iPad, which makes typing at length a pain. But there were several guys who were well trained and very capable. Sambo, judo, wrestling. The first 10 events were pretty wide open.

Not arguing....just that is the argument from my understanding. It was a pretty motley crew of fighters

 

[FriedRice]

Sigh, if you say so ...because I don't have the crayons available to explain it all to you, you put forward the idea that UFC1 proved something, your argument ie your reasoning is unsound therefore your argument for UFC1 proven your point is unsound. Keep up.

Still no argument, just saltiness.

 

[FriedRice]

Is this one of those things where the color of the mats favored grappling or something?

Maybe he just likes that color of crayons, who knows.

 

[FriedRice]

Haha. Something like that. I think it's an idea that the rules favored Royce, or maybe that the competitors were hand picked to ensure he could beat them all.

I don't know. I just remember some tough judo, sambo and shooto guys, along with the oddballs you would expect. I have the first 11 on video and I don't think the fix was in.

I wonder which one they thought couldn't beat Royce? Shamrock probably did the best of them all, and he didn't last very long if I recall. Shamrock also moped the floor with all the other TMA's.

 

[FriedRice]

I looked back on Gracie/kimo. He lost that royce didn't win it.

Royce got swept out of mount for flips sake.

I personally thought Royce fought dirty by pulling on his ponytail. Ripped it right off. Served him right for being vain. And he ended up not saving it neither.

 

[FriedRice]

Mainly that in the beginning a lot of the competitors weren't professional fighters. Lot of body guards, stunt men, etc....for the most part it was your regular ensemble for a tough man competition... and the Gracies started it mainly for an infomercial for the GBJJ.

I mean they had a guy fight with one boxing glove on.....

The Boxer w/1 glove was Art Jimmerson. PRO BOXER. 33-18 w/17 by KO. Fought 5-6 title fights and held an IBC Title. Art Jimmerson - Wikipedia

There were quite a few Pros: Ken Shamrock, Patrick Smith, Johnny Something (the Black Kickboxer in UFC 2), Kevin Rosier, Gerard Gordeau (he was bigtime in KB), and a bunch of others.

Most of the others were high ranking Traditional Martial Artists, of whom, some held world titles in their perspective competitions. Who knows about them being bouncers or stuntmen, but isn't that what's usually on the horizon for many Martial Artists who want to apply their MA's in a job anyway? And what bouncer or stuntman, don't know any MA?

 

[Hanzou]

Was it to do with there not being any round, so strikers didn't get the chance to get back to their feet?

Why should strikers be allowed to get to their feet? If they get taken to the ground, they need to fight their way out of it.

There was no fix. The bottom line is that most MA styles had completely ignored grappling for decades and got run over by a grappling specialist.

 

[Tez3]

The bottom line is that most MA styles had completely ignored grappling for decades and got run over by a grappling specialist.

That was what was supposed to happen, it was designed that way to showcase the Gracies and provide a new entertainment which they hoped would make all their fortunes. It wasn't a genuine martial artist versus martial artists competition, it was fixed, they chose the fighters who would appear, fixed who fought who, all with an aim of making sure the fights turned out the way they wanted. It was never a genuine promotion. It never showcased fighters from different styles and some still buy into the story as you do, that it was all above board and genuine.