An Aikidoka's controversial journey into MMA: Is it helpful?

[now disabled]

Scientology

where the heck you getting that from lol?

 

[Steve]

where the heck you getting that from lol?

They have a similar business model . give us x dollars, and y amount of time and you will reach stage two. You won't actually learn anything useful at that point but stick with it. After stage 2 is 3, stage 4, then 5, and so on. Money, time, all get frittered away and you never actually get to the point where you can actually do anything .

Practical aikido seems to be like the jackelope. Its something everyone claims to have seen but no one can prove .

 

[now disabled]

I think you said it in this thread but I will admit I just read through 5 pages of back and forth and ciuld be mistaken . I think it was brought up around page 3. It wad the exceptional aikido to face a competetwnt BJJ, wrestler, or boxer exchange.

I said the tools are there to deal with that .... I said facing a fully trained pro may pose probs but not everyone is a fully trained pro


that a bit diff is it not ?


Or are you saying that absoutely everyone is a trained pro boxer ?


or are you referring to where I said I know guys here who have never trained and if they hit a trained boxer they would go down

 

[now disabled]

They have a similar business model . give us x dollars, and y amount of time and you will reach stage two. You won't actually learn anything useful at that point but stick with it. After stage 2 is 3, stage 4, then 5, and so on. Money, time, all get frittered away and you never actually get to the point where you can actually do anything .

Practical aikido seems to be like the jackelope. Its something everyone claims to have seen but no one can prove .

In your opinion and some others but hey ok what I been doing for 30 plus years was all just a waste of time lol .......time to chuck my toys out the pram and run off to MMA lol ..................... I think not lol but thanks for your wisdom and insight

 

[Steve]

In your opinion and some others but hey ok what I been doing for 30 plus years was all just a waste of time lol .......time to chuck my toys out the pram and run off to MMA lol ..................... I think not lol but thanks for your wisdom and insight

Maybe not a waste of time . I'm not putting any kind of value judgement on it like that. You are. There are lots of great reasons to train. But with your 30 years, are you confident you could defend yourself against someone with 10 years of wrestling, boxing, judo, sambo, muay Thai, or mma?

 

[now disabled]

Maybe not a waste of time . I'm not putting any kind of value judgement on it like that. You are. There are lots of great reasons to train. But with your 30 years, are you confident you could defend yourself against someone with 10 years of wrestling, boxing, judo, sambo, muay Thai, or mma?[/QUOT

If I was fit yes why wouldI not if the occasion arose ...but in a comp ring no but on the street yup and bro I have faced people that have wanted to kill me more than once and not just with guns

 

[now disabled]

Maybe not a waste of time . I'm not putting any kind of value judgement on it like that. You are. There are lots of great reasons to train. But with your 30 years, are you confident you could defend yourself against someone with 10 years of wrestling, boxing, judo, sambo, muay Thai, or mma?

And that ws in a little place out of the way called NI and if you say that wasn't real then oh dear that will kinda make me laugh lol

 

[Steve]

Okay. I'll just say that I think Aikido is pretty cool. I just don't think it teaches people to do things very well.

First, I believe it's pretty well established that Aikidoka cannot fight. This is systemic. We see the evidence whenever we see an Aikidoka fighting someone. We hear the analysis whenever Aikidoka reflect on their experiences fighting someone. We hear from active Aikidoka that fighting is anathema to the art. Simply put, Aikidoka do not train to fight. And that's fine. Nothing wrong with this... until an Aikidoka insists that it is self defense or that you CAN fight with Aikido. Then we have to go round and round arguing the points above, until someone throws the Aikidoka a life line by saying something along the lines of, "it only works if you already know how to fight." It's like the BASF commercials. The motto for Aikido should be, "We don't teach you to fight. We teach you to fight better."

Contrast this with all of the other arts mentioned in this thread. Take BJJ, I am confident that anyone else who has trained BJJ will agree. An average, out of shape, unremarkable person can learn to apply BJJ against people who don't want them to in 6 months to 1 year. The learning curve is very predictable, and the results can be virtually guaranteed. If you train 3 to 4 times per week for 90 minutes in a typical (not exceptional) BJJ school, you will be able to perform. Your results will be even better if you compete.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

That may be the most salient comment on this page of the thread.

 

[Steve]

And that ws in a little place out of the way called NI and if you say that wasn't real then oh dear that will kinda make me laugh lol

You're speaking in code now. I don't know what you mean.

For what it's worth, I faced some people that seemed like they wanted to kill me, and I survived even before I had any martial arts training at all. Sometimes, good self defense has nothing to do with martial skill. So, I mean, if we're telling war stories, I could tell you a few. I don't think they have a lot to do with whether a martial art teaches practical skills or not, but they are fun stories to tell.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

My opinion is that there are a few different things at work in this situation ...

First is the fact that the fellow in question, based on his movements, should not have had his own dojo and been teaching aikido. He just didn't seem to have enough basic understanding and ability for that.

Second, I think the fellow has a strong need to be noticed. He was obviously not good enough to be noticed for his abilities, so he had to come up with another angle to get people to notice him. Seems like that was very successful.

Third, based on my experiences in Aikido, and in Japanese martial arts in general, I believe that too many people (including most aikidoka) no longer view aikido in the manner in which it was originally meant to be used. The way I see it, aikido was created as a way to teach a particular set of movements and way of moving, to experienced martial artists. I don't see it as being originally intended to be a stand-alone system. That would be like taking my own Japanese sword training and thinking it would allow me to fight barehanded in the UFC. Not what it was meant for, so the results would be "sub-optimal". A great many people complain that aikido is not good for fighting, but that's not what it was for. The fluid movements and ability to blend with your opponent's energy (aiki) that are taught in aikido can be very useful, the same way that many professional athletes will attend ballet and modern dance training to enhance the way they move.

Just my thoughts on another old argument.

That's what I've been trying to say - and haven't done as concise a job (hey, I gotta keep my post count up somehow). When people try to use what's in Aikido as I commonly see it (just the aiki-focused material, none of the support techniques), they're trying to make it fit more circumstances than it's meant for - like trying to use your sword movement to fill empty-hand needs, too. If you're good enough, it might even work, but it's going to require a much higher level of skill than simply having the right tools for those situations and adding the Aikido on top.

 

[Martial D]

The Aikido guy has always said there are no vids showing some Aikidoka pummeling some one why should there be ?

and Yo quoted previous threads at me and when and I asked about your friend who you let throw you about as you have to co-operate for that to happen lol and you stated he a newly promoted shodan and I said ok not prob the best to ask then ...where did you take it then /////oh he being doing it for 10 years maybe after 20 it will work ...............................well ummm why can you not accept that at shodan he will not know enough and depnding on his style what he does actually know.


Is it so hard to grasp that Aikido is not your go study for 6 months and then bang your a fighter and what part of the concepts are you not getting lol

What is hard to grasp is the idea that out of millions of aikidoka, not one of them has decided to compete or been able to show in any form they can win fights with aikido.

There are two possible conclusions that can be made -

1) aikido isn't very effective for fighting

2) it's like you say and aikido is good for fighting, but there is an international multilevel conspiracy to make it appear otherwise.

Sure not everyone is interested in demonstrating their skills, but there will always be some that will, and those people would be very invested in leaving some evidence of that. In fact there are countless examples of aikidoka doing just that, but they never beat anybody.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Aikidoka being able to hold their own against other martial artists. Again, the general belief that I've seen expressed by Aikidoka is that Aikido is designed to deal with untrained attackers, not trained opponents. Frankly I think that's baloney and rather sad commentary.

If what PGSmith and I have said is true (Aikido is meant to make a martial artist better), then the more realistic expectation would be that a skilled martial artist who added Aikido would be better than one who didn't. There aren't enough of those to get anything like a reasonable conclusion, I think.

 

[now disabled]

You're speaking in code now. I don't know what you mean.

For what it's worth, I faced some people that seemed like they wanted to kill me, and I survived even before I had any martial arts training at all. Sometimes, good self defense has nothing to do with martial skill. So, I mean, if we're telling war stories, I could tell you a few. I don't think they have a lot to do with whether a martial art teaches practical skills or not, but they are fun stories to tell.

I ain't telling war stories lol just pointing out that I did use what I knew in real life

And I am def not getting into the who has the most gongs and who been in the biggest hell holes sorry that I am not doing


Ok how about I turn it back and say ok you go find a vid of a well respected shihan (not one in his 80's although that if you want go for it lol) watch it and do a full crit of what you think is fake and what you see is all wrong then I will come back with my take ok ???


And getting back to the original OP and the guy in the vid ...he was offering a deshi prog and ummm well how was he going to grade them and he definitely could not rank them and you said he has faced Aikidoka ....ok who ?

I am not going to shoot the guys Aikido down in public but he is no fighter and as I said he had lost that fight before the bell went ding ...He beat himself and really if that guy had yelled at himI think he might have had an accident as he looked petrified facing him

 

[now disabled]

What is hard to grasp is the idea that out of millions of aikidoka, not one of them has decided to compete or been able to show in any form they can win fights with aikido.

There are two possible conclusions that can be made -

1) aikido isn't very effective for fighting

2) it's like you say and aikido is good for fighting, but there is an international multilevel conspiracy to make it appear otherwise.

Sure not everyone is interested in demonstrating their skills, but there will always be some that will, and those people would be very invested in leaving some evidence of that. In fact there are countless examples of aikidoka doing just that, but they never beat anybody.

go find a vid then of a respected Aikidoka do a full crit of what YOU see is wrong and doesn't work ok then post it and I'l be more than happy to come back to you ok???

 

[Gerry Seymour]

.

They are and I'm gonna say this and if you get offended sorry

You just do not get that Aikido is not walk in after 6 months you know it all and boom your a fighter


and how come when I ask you questions etc you do a body swerve and jump on the old band wagon lol


I ain't looking for support in what I say I will stand as I see and have experienced



I get questioned about my rank but do I ask others about theirs lol....nope


another question for you that website you posted are you believing them that there are no different styles of Aikido ?

No art or system is a 6-month fix, ND. Aikido is a slower path because the core aiki skills simply take a lot of time to learn, and as commonly taught (and probably as intended) works best as a sort of "finishing school" for skilled fighters.

 

[now disabled]

If what PGSmith and I have said is true (Aikido is meant to make a martial artist better), then the more realistic expectation would be that a skilled martial artist who added Aikido would be better than one who didn't. There aren't enough of those to get anything like a reasonable conclusion, I think.

And there prob will never be as well Aikidoka tend not to want to compete and then there the big chestnut of ..............where do you do that kind of thing as so much rivalry out there etc

 

[now disabled]

.

No art or system is a 6-month fix, ND. Aikido is a slower path because the core aiki skills simply take a lot of time to learn, and as commonly taught (and probably as intended) works best as a sort of "finishing school" for skilled fighters.

Bro I know that I was saying that in response to why Aikido is long term not short term


and that book I scanned a copy if I can get it in an email do you want it?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I think you said it in this thread but I will admit I just read through 5 pages of back and forth and ciuld be mistaken . I think it was brought up around page 3. It wad the exceptional aikido to face a competetwnt BJJ, wrestler, or boxer exchange.

If it was that exchange, it was me, though that's a misinterpretation of my point.

 

[Martial D]

go find a vid then of a respected Aikidoka do a full crit of what YOU see is wrong and doesn't work ok then post it and I'l be more than happy to come back to you ok???

Are there any people you consider respected aikidoka that actually fight against resisting opponents? All I can ever find are videos of cooperative drills involving completely unrealistic attacks, and students throwing themselves around, sometimes without even being touched(as was the case in a video of a respected master of aikido you posted in the other aikido thread.)

If I could find even one single vid of ANYONE successfully doing aikido techniques in a fight,(master or no master) just one, we wouldn't be having this discussion.