Americanized Martial Arts

[DavidCC]

What aobut "mixed martial arts"? I know the Gracies are Brazilian and started teh UFC, the premier showcase of MMA... but they started it to showcase GJJ, and we Americans evolved that into what is now known as MMA. So, is MMA an American martial art?
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"How can you improve on something that has existed & survived longer than our country?"

with imagination and hard work??

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"Can we not make something american with depth, vaule and integrity?"

how about EPAK, Kajukenbo, Karazenpo, etc... all American styles to some degree...

 

[Chronuss]

the reason the stances were low and deep was because they trained on the lower decks of ships cause when that's the only place you have to train, it's the only place you have to train...and tradition passed on...Koreans are a people of somewhat smaller stature, their kicks were developed to be able to remove people off small horses in battles, now TKD and TSD are known for high flashy kicks, wouldn't help too much in a phone booth...nice high 540 roundhouses look pretty and may earn a trophy here and there, practical in no way.

and with the punch...right four-knuckle rake to the radial nerve, right swordhand to the carotid, left claw to the face as the right hand rechambers, left foot to 4:30, right upper cut to floaters with a left sword hand to the carotid, right hammerfist to the base of the skull, right hook heel to the face.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

and with the punch...right four-knuckle rake to the radial nerve, right swordhand to the carotid, left claw to the face as the right hand rechambers, left foot to 4:30, right upper cut to floaters with a left sword hand to the carotid, right hammerfist to the base of the skull, right hook heel to the face.

sounds like a super-sized value meal

western people always want more.....not simple

like modifying a martial art to deal with the large tough street brawler. do u expect me to believe that the arts the okinawans made their own could not deal with this situation? because that untrained brawler is definitely way more dangerous than a highly skilled samurai wielding a razor sharp katana?
i think westerners to put it simply, like things their way, and that is fast and easy. learning any skill is never fast and easy, be it studying for a doctorate, or going through an apprenticeship to be a skilled tradesman. all things take time, and martial arts are one of them. i look at my study in the martial arts as valuable as any other schooling i have, and the process of learning those skills is just as, if not more, important as the skills themselves.

shawn

 

[Chronuss]

sounds like a super-sized value meal

what I described was an EPAK self-defense technique against a front right step-through punch...for an orange belt. simplicity compounded, easy to understand yet very effective. same SD could be applied for a lapel grab, round kick, roundhouse punch, hook punch, left or right sided. taking basics learned at the lowest level and simply conjoining them, not only that, but with concepts and principles of motion and how the body reacts to each strike making the body react in conjunction for the next strike. everything based on logic and understanding of the human body.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

with a true understanding of the human body, such an assault would be unneccesary

shawn

 

[Ippon Ken]

I'm OK with the fact that most Americans buy into the McDojo 'quicker and less efficient' philosophy. It puts the hardcore MA person into a unique minority. If everybody did MA, I probably wouldn't be nearly as interested in it. A small part of why I started was because I didn't know anybody who was an active MA'er.

Now that's what I'm chirpin'! No friggin' doubt. The average is everywhere. Understanding things beyond the depth of a rain puddle is the aim for those that are above average intelligence or higher. At least that's how it should be. You need the weak and wack to contrast with the good and strong. Ya' need a baseline in everything.

America is a place for people to do business. That doesn't mean you have to be a scheister or an adult with ADHD. You don't have to change everything you get your hands on, just to personalize it or make a quick penny off of it. Each of us from different countries with years here regardless of ethnicity, will become Americanized to some degree. I just hope we keep it all real and genuine if we adopt or borrow "it". Some things need fine-tuning, but not everything.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. You can't reinevent the wheel; all that. Peace.

 

[MichiganTKD]

First, I don't want this devolving into a "which style is better" argument. Kenpo does not have the monopoly on effective self defense or conditioning. And if it is truly American, why is it based on Chinese and Japanese fighting styles?
A very good point was raised: how can you Americanize something older than our nation? You will undoubtably have American influences (saluting the U.S. flag, English terminology/counting, different patches etc.), but you cannot truly Americanize something you didn't invent.
Unfortunately, when I think of Americanizing, I think of bringing out the worst aspects of a martial art to appease American appetites:
1. Red/blue/gold lame/multicolored uniforms-Americans love flash.
2. Contracts-so the Instructor can get rich
3. Complex forms and sequences reduced to watered down simplistic actions-so your average Joe student doesn't have to think too hard or break a sweat.
I'll admit-nobody will ever use horseback stance and big exaggerated actions outside. Those are designed to build up your body so you don't have to do them. But Americans are an impatient lot and don't have time for that. We want the 30-minute self defense course.

 

[The Kai]

But has not america invented and created a lot of the technology we see today??

If something is older then our country it is off limits?
The Amish still drive around in a Horse and Buggy cuz' there is no automobliles in the bible, are we in the same boat?

 

[bignick]

what do you think needs fixing in the traditional arts to amercanize them?

 

[MichiganTKD]

Very good point. What is wrong with practicing a traditional Korean martial art? Are we as Americans so xenophobic that we cannot practice an art invented by another culture? Why is it necessary to "Americanize" it in order to make it acceptable?
Personally, I find that traditional arts offer things that American society has perhaps lost in its drive for bigger, better, and faster.

 

[clfsean]

But has not america invented and created a lot of the technology we see today??

Yes... invented, not decided to "make better" or some of the notions that tend to go along with many of "American" Martial Arts.

If something is older then our country it is off limits?
The Amish still drive around in a Horse and Buggy cuz' there is no automobliles in the bible, are we in the same boat?

No, but the they don't use a psudeo-Aramaic/Jewish/Roman/Greek etc.... name to describe it. They call it a cart & buggy.

Tell me what's wrong with the following names:::
DISCLAIMER... I'M NOT PICKING OR TRY TO SINGLE OUT A GROUP OR STYLE... JUST GIVING EXAMPLES TO MY POINT

• American Karate
• American Kenpo
• U.S. Chuan Fa

These "American" arts all insist on using a "Asian" description with a notation to the US somehow in the name. Why is that?? If it's truly an American martial art... why cling to something that apparently wasn't worthy of standing on its own merits before they got their hands on it???

 

[MichiganTKD]

I completely agree. How can something be "American" when it is founded or based on something Korean, Japanese, or Chinese? The only way to have an "American" martial art is to develop something completely based in this country, instead of based on outside influences.
And since no Oriental martial art fits this description, since they all developed in Asia, there can be no American Karate, American Kung Fu, American TKD etc.

 

[OC Kid]

Every civilization had its MA starting with Alexander the Great. All subsequest civilizations tookthe basics changed it to meet their philosophies and so on. We do have American MA in the MMA and JKD, and other freestyle systems. I teach what I call American Karate.

I use traditional Japanese forms as part of rank promotions. Do they have to be perfect like the TMA..no they must know the moves and what their for.

I also mix in some kempo/ thai/ american boxing/ and kung fu. All systems have the same kicks/blocks/punches the body can only do something like 8 different kicks and 8 different punches. Systems can add variations such as jumps spins ect. But they are still the same 8 kicks and punches.

 

[8253]

Any thing that goes to another country will be Americanized, Okanawaized, Japanized, Chineseised etc. or however you say them fancy words.

 

[MisterMike]

Except pasta. Somehow I think that will always be associated with Italy.

OK, back on topic, lots of words have a base in some other language, like Latin. Doesn't mean we cannot use them. I don't see an issue with "American Kenpo" and the like. It tells you it's a different style.

 

[The Kai]

I completely agree. How can something be "American" when it is founded or based on something Korean, Japanese, or Chinese? The only way to have an "American" martial art is to develop something completely based in this country, instead of based on outside influences.
And since no Oriental martial art fits this description, since they all developed in Asia, there can be no American Karate, American Kung Fu, American TKD etc.

But if martial Artts come from China how do we get karate, TKD etc??

Is the american culture so shallow that deep experiences have to come from another culture?
Todd

 

[ppko]

But if martial Artts come from China how do we get karate, TKD etc??

Is the american culture so shallow that deep experiences have to come from another culture?
Todd

What would you change I guess is the question. Sure things always change in different arts, from teacher to teacher. But if you change to much than are you doing karate anymore (or TKD, or whatever). If you want your own katas and such make up your own style, but to me if you take away to much than you have already done that.

 

[The Kai]

American terminology

american history
Mind?body philosophy
As far as creating your own Kata'a, were'nt Okinwan Kata's a variation of White Crane Kung Fu Forms? How long do we have to do MA before we are mature enough?
Todd

 

[Sin]

Why Change something that works...

Change can be good and sometimes really bad. Adaptation is the solution. If the Majority of your MA class speeks English then instead of the traditional Japaniese/any other forgein language.

All in all i think you should keep MA traditional....it has worked over 2000 years why change it when it works.....adapt it to today's socity. :asian:

 

[The Kai]

Why Change something that works

All in all i think you should keep MA traditional....it has worked over 2000 years why change it when it works.....adapt it to today's socity. :asian:

Do you really think Martial artts were praciticed the same way today as 2000 yrs ago??
Do you think the maertial arts have changed in the last 40 yrs?
Todd