Do you believe Martial Arts should be taught in the public school system?

[Buka]

In some public schools, in affluent towns here in Massachusetts, they have created a no flunk program (my words, not theirs). They will not, under any circumstances, keep back a student, nor send him to summer school. They have found that doing so "might bruise their psyche". (their words, not mine).
If a student doesn't do any homework, I'm talking NONE at all, and fails every single test and quizz, and gets straight F's on report cards from grade one through senior year in high school, they still get promoted.

Enter several young boys who have learned the school's stand on this issue. They laugh, with the attitude, "hey, they're going to promote me anyway!" So they do nothing - but keep getting promoted. (I have spoken to some of these kids)

So, I wonder what would happen if these schools had a Martial Arts program as part of their curriculum? I envision belt tests.
"Johnny, you're being tested for your green belt." Do you know your Katas?
Johnny, "No."
Have you done your pushups?
Johnny, "No. I don't like pushups."
Okay, no problem, here's your green belt.

I also wonder what would happen if schools did implement Martial Arts. Think there would be any shenanigans behind closed doors as to what style was taught, or what local MA instructor would be teaching? Oh, that would be a hoot. At least around here.

 

[geezer]

In some public schools, in affluent towns here in Massachusetts, they have created a no flunk program (my words, not theirs). They will not, under any circumstances, keep back a student, nor send him to summer school. They have found that doing so "might bruise their psyche". (their words, not mine).

To a less extreme degree that's the policy in many school districts all around the country. You've heard of "social promotion", right? The reasons go well beyond considerations of the poor child's "bruised psyche" or self esteem. There are practical issues, such as what to do if a kid keeps flunking. You can't have a sexually active 14 or 15 year-old delinquent repeating the 6th grade indefinitely and hanging out with 11 and 12 year-old girls. But the law says he has to be in school, and there's no money for special programs to segregate such kids from the general population. And, if you enforce very rigid promotion requirements, certain groups within our population will fail at a higher rate. The political fallout is something no school administrator or local politician is prepared to handle. Parents are part of the equation too. It's a lot easier to pass the buck and blame the schools rather than to value education at home, demand that their kids do their homework and attend school regularly.

Besides, the solution to such problems is obvious. Just blame the teacher. Cut their salaries, increase their hours, overcrowd their classes, double their paperwork load, and make what meager wages they still receive dependent on their students grades and test scores ...even if the students themselves don't care.

BTW I'm not making this up. It's my life!

 

[SavageMan]

WOW! Never expected this post to stir up such a buzz. Can't say I'm not pleased by it though. Just to hit on a few things mentioned. I'm a little surprised by a lot of the negative responses from some of the Seniors here on this one. Especially to say that keeping a kid out of MA because he has anger issues. What? I thought the discipline of MA helped to solve that one. I've even seen it help some of the younger guys in the MMA scene. By the way one of my twin boys is severely ADHD & has a form of Asperger's syndrome, he has problems adjusting to social circumstance and can become explosive. Guess what his Doctor recommended. Put him in Martial Arts! Imagine that. Take a kid who has trouble with focus, behavior, & anger issues and teach him an art that gives him focus, self control, and confidence. What a novel idea. As for those of you who say that if the kid wants to learn they could go to the local gym and pay for it. Shame on you. If I could have gotten half of the young men I dealt with in the Juvenile system into a class 2 to 3 years prior to their first offense, who knows how many I wouldn't have had in the first place. A Lot of the kids in the American public school system are getting their lunches paid for by the state, what makes you think their parents could afford or even care enough to send them to a gym. Those are the kids that need it the most, and the kids we will continue to fail. Especially with those kinds of attitudes. We as martial artist can't sit and complain of the negative attitudes from the general public towards MA, then think we can pick and chose students and judge others on merit without a chance to prove otherwise. I wonder if that would have been the attitude of the Masters who brought are respective arts out of the east to the west if we would be having this debate? Again thank you to all that responded to the post it is my pleasure to be among such a versatile group.

 

[Steve]

In some public schools, in affluent towns here in Massachusetts, they have created a no flunk program (my words, not theirs). They will not, under any circumstances, keep back a student, nor send him to summer school. They have found that doing so "might bruise their psyche". (their words, not mine).
If a student doesn't do any homework, I'm talking NONE at all, and fails every single test and quizz, and gets straight F's on report cards from grade one through senior year in high school, they still get promoted.

Enter several young boys who have learned the school's stand on this issue. They laugh, with the attitude, "hey, they're going to promote me anyway!" So they do nothing - but keep getting promoted. (I have spoken to some of these kids)

So, I wonder what would happen if these schools had a Martial Arts program as part of their curriculum? I envision belt tests.
"Johnny, you're being tested for your green belt." Do you know your Katas?
Johnny, "No."
Have you done your pushups?
Johnny, "No. I don't like pushups."
Okay, no problem, here's your green belt.

I also wonder what would happen if schools did implement Martial Arts. Think there would be any shenanigans behind closed doors as to what style was taught, or what local MA instructor would be teaching? Oh, that would be a hoot. At least around here.

Can you post a link to that school district website? This is ridiculous enough hat I need to see it to believe it.

Also, and being serious, how is that any different than most "traditional ma" kids programs? Provided the check clears, of course.


Sent using Tapatalk. Please ignore typos.

 

[tshadowchaser]

My son and I have been trying for over year to get a program in the schools in my area. So far all we have hit is excuses why we can not do this.
Personaly i feel that martial arts would help many of todays youths with a little respect, concentration, and personal value. I see nothing wrong with youths learning how to defend themsleves and maybe even getting into better shape

 

[Toast_in_the_Machine]

Especially to say that keeping a kid out of MA because he has anger issues. What? I thought the discipline of MA helped to solve that one. I've even seen it help some of the younger guys in the MMA scene.
(snip)
Take a kid who has trouble with focus, behavior, & anger issues and teach him an art that gives him focus, self control, and confidence. What a novel idea.

(snip)
Those are the kids that need it the most, and the kids we will continue to fail.

(Sorry for the editing, still not used to this board).

The problem with MA in schools is that the discipline needed is not backed up by a desire to be there, by a willingness to participate, or by a parental pressure. The power of discipline in schools is the power of the state. It isn’t the problem of what do you do with “at risk” kids, for whom the power of the state is the greatest force in their life. The problem is with those kids whose parents have means and power that rivals what the child would see from the state. How does the MA instructor discipline the kid whose parents makes $250,000 a year, leave the kid to be raised by his peers, and all the kid respects is money? Making MA a requirement means making it a requirement for all, not just those that need it, but those that reject the core values of MA and have the means to do so.

Yes, we should make MA more available to people with less means and with the implicit knowledge that those are people who are more likely to need MA, but the public schools in the US is not the place to do so.

 

[puunui]

Judo is taught in the hawaii public school system, in at least some high schools. Judo is also a high school letter sport.

 

[onthechin]

I reckon judo would be a great assett to ANY school. If kids are gonna bully other kids they will, regardless of any MA tuition. Take a look at those 2 korean kids recently...sentenced to 3 and 3.5 years for bullying a kid who committed suicide. I wouldnt advocate teaching a striking art but judo...why not? I did judo as a kid and the first use I had was when riding one handed at night on a bike I hit a bump and whoooah...break fall saved me from really hurting myself..As for VC's, and how many were awarded to etonians...yes, an impressive figure BUT...you need to remember that any medal required an officer to witness the act..take a look at any guy who got a medal...chances are he was an officer and the NCO or private got 'mentioned in dispatches'...Back in those days the UK was (and still is to a much greater degree than countries like canada, the US or australia) a class based society.

 

[Jason Striker II]

I suspect it would have benefits, but I sincerely doubt it would happen in public schools in the USA. Those days are long gone.

When I was a lad, there was a 22 caliber rifle range in the basement of my grade school, where marksmanship was taught. It was no longer used, and that was in the 1960s. I don't know when it had been last used; the school was built in the early 1900s.

We have gotten to the point where competitive sports are no longer seen as acceptable for in-school physical education (not talking about extracurricular activities such as organized sports). Martial arts training inherently teaches ways to not just defend oneself, but to inflict pain and perhaps injury on others. It would only take one bully applying what he had been taught on a smaller child, and that would be the end of that. Likewise, martial arts training often involves routine injuries; parents in general are intolerant of their child being injured in any way shape or form.

Frankly, we've become a nation of wussies. We do not want our children exposed to competition, being told they are not winners, or risk of injury of any sort. We're a pack of crybaby anti-competitive navel-gazers, destroying our children with nonsensical arguments like 'everybody is a winner' and 'competition is bad' and 'self-defense is not allowed, call the police instead'. We've lost our spirit and lost our way.

I agree with all of the above.

The idea of MA in the public school curriculum has been discussed for decades (Peter Urban, in "The Karate Dojo", 1967, remarks that it would be a good thing). However the entire social climate has gone in the wrong direction. Today any such program would be doomed on several levels.

 

[pgsmith]

Today any such program would be doomed on several levels.

From the Kick Start Kids web site that was cited earlier in the thread ...

" Today, our program operates in over 40 middle schools in the Houston, Dallas, Galveston, Austin/Pflugerville, Navasota, Bryan/College Station and Alvin areas of Texas. We currently serve over 6,500 of today's youth, making a positive impact in their lives. "

 

[puunui]

I reckon judo would be a great assett to ANY school. If kids are gonna bully other kids they will, regardless of any MA tuition.

I believe that the judo taught in PE classes at some hawaii high schools is focused more on competition than for self defense. There is a lot of cross training between wrestling and judo here at the high school sport level. In fact, many judo high school age black belts have gone on to become state and national high school wrestling champions, not to mention an olympic medal as well.

 

[Jason Striker II]

From the Kick Start Kids web site that was cited earlier in the thread ...

" Today, our program operates in over 40 middle schools in the Houston, Dallas, Galveston, Austin/Pflugerville, Navasota, Bryan/College Station and Alvin areas of Texas. We currently serve over 6,500 of today's youth, making a positive impact in their lives. "

If it's working, I mean to say - actually turning out quality MA instruction for kids at the PS level - I think it's great. But to be utterly frank, I can't believe it.

I'm sitting here thinking this over - no, I just can't believe that quality technique and "mature values" are managing to be taught in a PS system today.

If I'm wrong on this, however, I'd be damn glad about it!

 

[pgsmith]

If it's working, I mean to say - actually turning out quality MA instruction for kids at the PS level - I think it's great. But to be utterly frank, I can't believe it.

That depends on what you consider quality martial arts instruction. My youngest (now 24) was in that program when he was at middle school. You had to either be placed, or apply for the program, and did it instead of the standard PE class. After achieving a certain level sparring was required, but the main emphasis was on intangibles. My son learned better coordination, how to think on his feet, and how to roll when he fell down, but he didn't learn a whole lot of "self defense". It ended up getting dropped in our school district due to budgetary reasons. I thought the program was great myself, as a number of problem kids were assigned to that class and they learned discipline and respect that they weren't learning in other places.

The key, I think, was that it wasn't required. That kept the problem parents from objecting because their precious darlings didn't have to be in it. They had a demo team that performed at school functions so it lent a certain prestige to those that were willing to do it.

 

[Jason Striker II]

Pgsmith, thanks for the info. You make some very good points (The key, I think, was that it wasn't required. That kept the problem parents from objecting because their precious darlings didn't have to be in it.)

However, I am not surprised it was dropped due to "budgetary reasons" - sign of the times.

 

[chinto]

unfortunately with the liberal types who do believe in things like promotions to the next grade. They insist on such things regardless of their actual ability to preform to that grades level in any way. They then scream when with a High School Diploma little Jane and little Johny cant read or write or add or subtract, is not their falt!!!

So you know the cry of " oh NO that is VIOLENCE being taught!!!" will be long and loud and the schools will just say NO and it will not happen.

IF it did , the only way it would be a really good thing is if it was taught primarily for self defense!

 

[Buka]

Can you post a link to that school district website? This is ridiculous enough hat I need to see it to believe it.

Also, and being serious, how is that any different than most "traditional ma" kids programs? Provided the check clears, of course.


Sent using Tapatalk. Please ignore typos.

http://www.sharon.k12.ma.us/pages/Sharon_Public_Schools

Good point about the ma kids program, too.

 

[Cyriacus]

I reckon judo would be a great assett to ANY school. If kids are gonna bully other kids they will, regardless of any MA tuition. Take a look at those 2 korean kids recently...sentenced to 3 and 3.5 years for bullying a kid who committed suicide. I wouldnt advocate teaching a striking art but judo...why not? I did judo as a kid and the first use I had was when riding one handed at night on a bike I hit a bump and whoooah...break fall saved me from really hurting myself..As for VC's, and how many were awarded to etonians...yes, an impressive figure BUT...you need to remember that any medal required an officer to witness the act..take a look at any guy who got a medal...chances are he was an officer and the NCO or private got 'mentioned in dispatches'...Back in those days the UK was (and still is to a much greater degree than countries like canada, the US or australia) a class based society.

Because then, if the wrong person learnt how to, say, slam someone onto their back then choke them out, itll be alot more dangerous than some degenerate swinging their hands 1-3 times then gloating over the blood and leaving.

 

[pgsmith]

IF it did , the only way it would be a really good thing is if it was taught primarily for self defense!

Why in the world would you say that? Self defense is something that the vast majority of people will never need, unless they are actually in a law enforcement or security profession. Of the hundreds of martial artists that I know personally, I could count on one hand the number that have actually had to defend themselves from a violent attacker.

 

[puunui]

Why in the world would you say that? Self defense is something that the vast majority of people will never need, unless they are actually in a law enforcement or security profession. Of the hundreds of martial artists that I know personally, I could count on one hand the number that have actually had to defend themselves from a violent attacker.

Some really believe that the be all and end all of martial arts is practical self defense application, that if you aren't going for that, then you are not a "true martial artist", or something along those lines.