Do you believe Martial Arts should be taught in the public school system?

[Steve]

Absolutely NOT. The number of People who would learn it to misuse it would be extremely detrimental.
Besides - Nothings stopping them from just going to a Normal MA Outlet.

Hahaha.... Because public school karate would be more dangerous than the wrestling, boxing, judo and marksman clubs/teams that already exist. Let's be real.


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[clfsean]

One of my students is a teacher in a local school system & teaches an after school "martial arts club" at the direction of the school principal. Aside from my training, he's a 2nd degree in TKD & an instructor at his teacher's school. The program is for "at risk youths" that in addition to this club, they have a regular study hall period & other classes to help focus these kids attention away from the shenanigans that they ordinarily would gravitate towards. The kids have no choice about attending the after school program (funded by the state) but they do get to choose what to do after the study hall period. His MA club is one of the bigger ones & remarkably enough, his kids are not fighting & fussing as much as they did prior to it.

Problem is... it's one school & a sponsored program, not a curriculum course.

 

[harlan]

To the original post: no.

It would just be more state sanctioned 'programming'; feel-good, gutted, artsy and empty. There are already plenty of schools that teach 'schoolboy karate', 'head-chest-down' nonsense.

 

[Steve]

In answer to the OP, speaking just for the USA, I think that the way we have it now works just fine. The kids have PE credits that they have to take, whether it be swimming or something more traditional. And many schools (I'd say most in the USA) have wrestling teams. No kids are turned away and everyone benefits, even if you're on the JV squad. There are other competitive teams, as well. My kids' high school has a marksman team which competes as a part of the JROTC program.

Many schools have additional teams or clubs, which are sponsored by the school and have faculty advisors. There are Judo clubs all over our area, which are great. There are boxing clubs, and some schools even have MMA clubs.

Personally, to make it a class is unnecessary and would be the worst kind of instruction. I see it devolving into cursory martial arts instruction with a lot of LARPing. Bottom line, don't try to fix what's not broken.

 

[Carol]

There is a high school MMA program in Winchester, MA. I wish more New England schools -- scratch, I wish more American schools -- were doing this. Its popular with young people, many kids love doing it and this gives them exposure through a proper coach, instead of messing around on their own.

 

[ATACX GYM]

This is a discussion I had on my way to training the other night with my twelve year old daughter and her friend. They were going to sit in on grappling night & watch the old man try to hold his own. They had both seen the new Karate Kid movie and had said just how cool it would be if American schools had martial arts instead of gym class like China, Japan, and Korea. This is really a question for the Western countries given that many of the Asian countries require a martial art as part of their daily schedule. So for all those European friends, Aussies, Canadian buddies and Yanks out there let me know what you think. If you do think it should be in the schools which one, or how many, and why that one. And for anyone out there who has taken a martial art as part of their school curriculum please tell us how it went.

Not only do I think that martial arts should be taught in the public school systems, I brought that idea up and have taught classes drawn from the populace of nearby schools. As long as the standards for quality is high and there isn't a moratorium on sparring? I absolutely believe that martial arts would be a massive help to our school systems in every way.

 

[decepticon]

No, I do not think MA should be taught in American public schools.

First, as has been addressed in various other threads and a bit here, not every person is temperamentally suited to handle the type of knowledge MA training imparts. So if a kid with anger management and impulse control issues showed up for class, the instructor would have great difficulty in finding a way to exclude him from training, regardless of whether he knew he would be creating a monster. Unfortunately American schools have been forced via lawsuits to now take equal treatment to a fault, the sad result of which is that some kids don't get as much as they need while other kids get way more than is good for them. Students can't be singled out for separate treatment.

Secondly, I can only imagine the outcry from religious families who would be horrified that their child was being indoctrinated with evil Eastern pagan thoughts. Probably only topped by those pacifist families who were furious that their children were being forced to become cold-blooded killers. Seriously though, I do know some people who truly hold pacifist beliefs and who would keep their children out of school rather than have them exposed to MA training or to children who had taken such. (They don't hang around us much any more since we do martial arts and my daughter has become a competitive archer and shooter in rifle, pistol, and shotgun.)

Third, I expect such classes would become the new meat and potatoes for greedy lawyers and suit-happy parents. As we all know, bumps and bruises are part and parcel of MA training - even if they come from improperly contacting a pad - and that would be the focus of numerous lawsuits over lack of supervision, inadequate training, child endangerment, etc. I doubt many schools would be willing to open themselves up to this type of legal risk.

And finally, I agree with others who have posted here that MA by committee seems to excel at taking the teeth out of any system. Can't do this, it offends member A. Can't do that, it bothers member B. This other thing seems inappropriate to member C's sense of historical accuracy, etc.

I have read something about the fact that in some California schools, self defense classes are being taught. Not sure whether they are mandatory. However the last thing I read mentioned that the school bullies had already come up with a way to counter the SD moves taught, so I'm not sure what value the program has.

 

[Tez3]

Top boys school in Great Britain, y'mean, dontcha? :lol:

Actually no I didn't lol, it really is the best school in the world, there's not one to touch it anywhere. It's produced more leaders of countries than anywhere else, also the most influential people, artists, soldiers,scientists, economists, politicians, kings, writers etc etc. There is no country in the world that hasn't been affected by old Etonians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famous_Old_Etonians_born_before_the_18th_century
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famous_Old_Etonians_born_in_the_18th_century
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_notable_Old_Etonians_born_in_the_19th_century
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_notable_Old_Etonians_born_in_the_20th_century

 

[geezer]

Actually no I didn't lol, it really is the best school in the world, there's not one to touch it anywhere. It's produced more leaders of countries than anywhere else, also the most influential people, artists, soldiers,scientists, economists, politicians, kings, writers etc etc. There is no country in the world that hasn't been affected by old Etonians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famous_Old_Etonians_born_before_the_18th_century
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famous_Old_Etonians_born_in_the_18th_century
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_notable_Old_Etonians_born_in_the_19th_century
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_notable_Old_Etonians_born_in_the_20th_century

Impressive list to be sure. But is this the result of the education imparted alone or the combination of education, ambition, money, class, and connections that come to play? Although we, on this side of the pond like to think of ourselves as more meritocratic and less influenced by class, look at the number of our leaders who hail from elite prep schools and Ivy League colleges. For example, both George Bushes and Al Gore were Yalies, and members of Skull and Bones too, if I remember correctly. My father and older brother went to Ivy League colleges. I did not, but I was still fortunate enough to have had a "priviledged" private education (attending fifth and sixth forms at an elite boys boarding school and then attending a prestigious private four year college). But whereas my brother finished his education as a Keasbey Fellow at University College, Oxford, I simply got my graduate degrees at the local state university, paid for it myself, and I've spent my life since earning a fairly meager income teaching in a large public (in the American sense) school serving a poor neighborhood. I will say that the contrast in educational philosophy and opportunity is extreme. Yet the state-funded "public" system does produce some incredible talents. Or perhaps, incredible talent will emerge regardless!


Now to the OP. I can't see Martial Arts being offered widely in our public schools, even as an extracurricular "club" activity. The liability factor is too great. I do have a friend, a history teacher, who sponsors our (Western historical) "Sword-fighting Club". His request to start the club was approved with the clear understanding that if "anything happened" he would have zero support from administration and it would probably mean his job.

 

[Steve]

Are you guys who are against MA even as clubs just missing that many schools already have them, and they're working just fine?

And this talk about temperament is just laughable. Like they'd be learning dim mak. Come on.


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[pgsmith]

Chuck Norris started something along those lines a number of years ago. My youngest son (24 now) was in the class when he was in seventh grade. He didn't learn a whole lot martial wise, but he was (and still is!) lousy at the traditional sports oriented PE classes, and this gave him something constructive to do with his PE time. He loved the program and all of the kids that were in it (mostly, but not all problem kids) learned a great deal from the instructor about discipline and control of themselves. I thought it was a great program myself, but it became too controversial for suburbia and they discontinued the program after a couple of years.
http://kickstartkids.org/program.html

 

[Tez3]

Impressive list to be sure. But is this the result of the education imparted alone or the combination of education, ambition, money, class, and connections that come to play? Although we, on this side of the pond like to think of ourselves as more meritocratic and less influenced by class, look at the number of our leaders who hail from elite prep schools and Ivy League colleges. For example, both George Bushes and Al Gore were Yalies, and members of Skull and Bones too, if I remember correctly. My father and older brother went to Ivy League colleges. I did not, but I was still fortunate enough to have had a "priviledged" private education (attending fifth and sixth forms at an elite boys boarding school and then attending a prestigious private four year college). But whereas my brother finished his education as a Keasbey Fellow at University College, Oxford, I simply got my graduate degrees at the local state university, paid for it myself, and I've spent my life since earning a fairly meager income teaching in a large public (in the American sense) school serving a poor neighborhood. I will say that the contrast in educational philosophy and opportunity is extreme. Yet the state-funded "public" system does produce some incredible talents. Or perhaps, incredible talent will emerge regardless!


Now to the OP. I can't see Martial Arts being offered widely in our public schools, even as an extracurricular "club" activity. The liability factor is too great. I do have a friend, a history teacher, who sponsors our (Western historical) "Sword-fighting Club". His request to start the club was approved with the clear understanding that if "anything happened" he would have zero support from administration and it would probably mean his job.

It's education at this school, not everyone has to have money to go there. Many accuse them of teaching arrogance but it's self confidence, the ability to lead, the ability to think and the ability to know that one can do anything that is taught there. They leave there as 'leaders' of the world, what they are taught while there rules everything they do subsequently one way or another, they teach a supreme self belief. I have several friends who went there and and it's something more than the old boy network, family and money, you can get that from any minor public school but it is something they teach there that's different. They've been at it since 1440 so had plenty of time to get it right.


However the fact they allow Capoiera to be taught probably means it's not as useless as some here think lol!

 

[puunui]

I don't know if it is taught for credit, but here in hawaii judo is a high school letter sport. So in that sense, it is taught in the public schools, through practices for matches.

 

[elder999]

It's education at this school, not everyone has to have money to go there. Many accuse them of teaching arrogance but it's self confidence, the ability to lead, the ability to think and the ability to know that one can do anything that is taught there. They leave there as 'leaders' of the world, what they are taught while there rules everything they do subsequently one way or another, they teach a supreme self belief. I have several friends who went there and and it's something more than the old boy network, family and money, you can get that from any minor public school but it is something they teach there that's different. They've been at it since 1440 so had plenty of time to get it right.

According to this list, compiled in the UK, it's only the third best boys boarding in the UK.

Internationally, off the top of my head, I'd personally consider Aiglon College in Switzerland a better school, as well as Westminster Academy in England. I'm also pretty partial to the Hotchkiss School ( :lol: )and Choate here in the States.

 

[Tez3]

According to this list, compiled in the UK, it's only the third best boys boarding in the UK.

Internationally, off the top of my head, I'd personally consider Aiglon College in Switzerland a better school, as well as Westminster Academy in England. I'm also pretty partial to the Hotchkiss School ( :lol: )and Choate here in the States.

That's a private company comparing GCSE results. Eton is as much about character building as academic results, any school that can boast 35 Victoria Crosses for it's ex pupils has to be somewhat above the rest. William Pitt went there, as did John Maynard Keynes as well as a lot of others who helped shape many countries and many peoples future's since the 15th century. Eton is about more than just passing exams it's about shaping the world and you'd be surprised how much many countries owe old Etonians for that whether for the good or the bad. You can say it's money and background but neither of them help when on the battlefield or as in Captain Oates case giving your life for others even if it was in vain. Eton is a state of mind as much as a place to learn to read and write.

 

[elder999]

That's a private company comparing GCSE results. Eton is as much about character building as academic results, any school that can boast 35 Victoria Crosses for it's ex pupils has to be somewhat above the rest. William Pitt went there, as did John Maynard Keynes as well as a lot of others who helped shape many countries and many peoples future's since the 15th century. Eton is about more than just passing exams it's about shaping the world and you'd be surprised how much many countries owe old Etonians for that whether for the good or the bad. You can say it's money and background but neither of them help when on the battlefield or as in Captain Oates case giving your life for others even if it was in vain. Eton is a state of mind as much as a place to learn to read and write.

You can find a long list of distinguished alumni from most of these institutions-the older they are, the longer and more distinguished the list. While the gravitas of all that history and tradition might have some bearing towards "a state of mind"-as it does with all of them it has nothing whatsoever the "best school, least of all "in the world."

Which, in the end, is only your opinion, after all.

 

[Tez3]

You can find a long list of distinguished alumni from most of these institutions-the older they are, the longer and more distinguished the list. While the gravitas of all that history and tradition might have some bearing towards "a state of mind"-as it does with all of them it has nothing whatsoever the "best school, least of all "in the world."

Which, in the end, is only your opinion, after all.

And that of Old Etonians such as our Prime Minister lol.

 

[Black Belt Jedi]

As long as there are great Karate teachers in the Western world to have the ability to teach children in elementary schools and teens in high school, I would say that it would be a great idea. That can hopefully lower the statistics of children being bullied at school throughout the world. For a start there are some Universities in parts of the Western world that has Karate clubs and other Martial Art clubs. It can accomodate College student who want to continue their Martial Art training while doing their studies or College students who want to give this stuff a try.

 

[OwlMatt]

I work at a school for special needs students that is chartered through the public school system. We teach taekwondo to our elementary and middle school students in place of traditional PE. I think the structure added by TKD helps a lot of our autistic kids, and a few students who never would have considered trying to be competitive athletes are getting involved in tournaments.

In high school, where credits matter, we have to follow district and state PE standards, though some high schoolers still participate in extracurricular TKD.

All in all, I'd say TKD has been a big success here, but I'm not sure how it would work in a bigger school with larger classes.

 

[oftheherd1]

...

Secondly, I can only imagine the outcry from religious families who would be horrified that their child was being indoctrinated with evil Eastern pagan thoughts. Probably only topped by those pacifist families who were furious that their children were being forced to become cold-blooded killers.

You may not believe it, but some consider martial arts as cults. They equate such practices as bowing to be manifestations of ancester worship. You might make an argument for that in such systems that require bowing to a deceased founder ... or not. Bowing to your instructor or to the flags, to me is simply a sign of respect to the instructor, in place of a handshake or a hand salute. To each his own I guess.

...

Third, I expect such classes would become the new meat and potatoes for greedy lawyers and suit-happy parents. As we all know, bumps and bruises are part and parcel of MA training - even if they come from improperly contacting a pad - and that would be the focus of numerous lawsuits over lack of supervision, inadequate training, child endangerment, etc. I doubt many schools would be willing to open themselves up to this type of legal risk.

Sadly, I think you may be right. It should not be since football and even basketball can provide plenty of injuries. However, they have long since at least been accepted culturally, and even something esteemed as a thing to be excelled at.

...

In Korea, my GM taught classes to high school students. It was a replacement for other sports. That was no doubt more acceptable there than it might be in the US. It and the schools were also under the auspices of the military. When he came to the US, I tried to get something going at the local high schools, as an extra-curricular activity or club. Even with inside help it soon got mired down in red tape and legal protections. It never got off the ground.

As to bullies, I think the instructor must be given complete control over who and how he teaches, just as he would in a private dojang. He has to be able to enforce discipline. Those things allow the instructor to weed out or change bullies. My GM pretty much did that by force of personality, but he also had the enforcement of the grades he handed out. It was part of the curiculam and the students received academic grades.

But I just think it would be hard to get off the gound in the USA in most places. Obviously Hawaii is an exception. That is great.