Americanized Martial Arts

[The Kai]

Here's a general question.
When the art of Kung-fu migrated to Okinwa it did'nt take long for the okinwans to make it thier own (Te)
When Te came to japan it did'nt take long to japanize it to Karate.

So after 60 years of Karate being on American Shores, why not american ize it?

Is there a distaste towards americanizing?
Todd

 

[Chronuss]

there is an American Martial Art...Ed Parker's American Kenpo.

 

[clfsean]

Here's a general question.
When the art of Kung-fu migrated to Okinwa it did'nt take long for the okinwans to make it thier own (Te)
When Te came to japan it did'nt take long to japanize it to Karate.

So after 60 years of Karate being on American Shores, why not american ize it?

Is there a distaste towards americanizing?
Todd

Pretty much anything with the word American in it has been "Americanized" to a degree. It seems there's more Americanized martial arts than you can shake a stick at nowadays.

 

[The Kai]

Pretty much anything with the word American in it has been "Americanized" to a degree. It seems there's more Americanized martial arts than you can shake a stick at nowadays.

True but how many even American styles do you have to count in japanaese or Korean? Learn Korean termnology?
Todd

 

[The Kai]

there is an American Martial Art...Ed Parker's American Kenpo.

I knewe someone would jump on that, True so lets look outside the kenpo arts

 

[Chronuss]

I knew someone would jump on that, True so lets look outside the kenpo arts

well...made in America...by an American...for Americans...everything in English, no foreign terms, phrases. everything based on logical principles and body mechanics rather than tradition, so there is a definate difference between American Kenpo and any other system of Kenpo.

 

[The Kai]

well...made in America...by an American...for Americans...everything in English, no foreign terms, phrases. everything based on logical principles and body mechanics rather than tradition, so there is a definate difference between American Kenpo and any other system of Kenpo.

Aye

 

[bignick]

the terminology in another language i feel is an important part of the process...ballet uses french terminology...music uses italian...why not use the language your art came from.

the nice thing about terminology is that when you go to a class you should be focusing on the class and forget about the outside world for a while...one of the great appeals of the martial arts to many...the foreign terminology helps with that...

 

[Sin]

Here's a general question.
When the art of Kung-fu migrated to Okinwa it did'nt take long for the okinwans to make it thier own (Te)
When Te came to japan it did'nt take long to japanize it to Karate.

So after 60 years of Karate being on American Shores, why not american ize it?

Is there a distaste towards americanizing?
Todd

If we where to americanize Karate...eventually someone will just pick up a gun and blow someone away...either that or some redneck boxing.....not all americans have the patence to do MA they would much rather pick up there 45.

 

[The Kai]

So we need to protect ourselves from becoming to american? We can only strive for "higher" aspects the further we get awy from being ourselves?
Todd

 

[Sin]

The fact is that there are a lot of redneck Americans...shoot the term redneck was founded here in America...Americans are all about getting it done faster and less effeciently and that is where our McDojos come from-AMERICA. Not all Americans are this way. Please do not get me wrong-some americans learn to slow down and take there time how to learn the ways of the true Martial Art...not some half baked Sport karate that wouldn't help anyone on the street. All in all MA in America is a great thing, but please rememmber its origins, and respect the people that created it. :asian:

 

[Enson]

well i'm all for "americanizing" a style. heck i study an american version of ninjutsu. its looked down on by some because it was developed here. i believe that even jkd is a american style.

but i might say that when you "americanize" a style you take its concepts and improve on it (according to your demographic). that is my opinion. like "taco bell"... it is a fast food concept, with mexican food concept, and its becomes its own chain. now we all know its no "mckey d's" and its no authentic mexican restaurant, but it does provide a meal for a good price! (does that make sense?)

try baseball, football, music, etc.

peace

 

[The Kai]

But you cann't or would'nt want to live on Taco Bell would you. Is there a way to Americanize the arts without losing to much?

Todd

 

[clfsean]

True but how many even American styles do you have to count in japanaese or Korean? Learn Korean termnology?
Todd

I've never studied an American style so my counting & other terminology so far has been in Japanese, Korean & Chinese (Mandarin & Cantonese)...

If we where to americanize Karate...eventually someone will just pick up a gun and blow someone away...either that or some redneck boxing.....not all americans have the patence to do MA they would much rather pick up there 45.

Well that's a possibility but Asia has used black powder weapons in combat a lot longer than we have. We just became more adept at it when it was introduced fully into warfare.

well i'm all for "americanizing" a style. heck i study an american version of ninjutsu. its looked down on by some because it was developed here. i believe that even jkd is a american style.

Not going there...

but i might say that when you "americanize" a style you take its concepts and improve on it (according to your demographic). that is my opinion.

How can you improve on something that has existed & survived longer than our country? It seems that a martial art that has been around for say ... 200 or 300 years has proved it's worth & effectiveness if it's still being practiced "UNAMERICANIZED" today...

Don't get me wrong, I'm far from anti American, but we need to stop with the "we can make it better because we're American" mentality on a lot of things. Most things (not all) are fine as they are. Otherwise rather than "Improving it", we would've "created it". Sure, we can add to it to fit our own individual needs, but in learning & passing it on, it needs to go as it came to us... Japanese, Korean, Okinawan, Chinese, etc...

 

[CMack11]

Americans are all about getting it done faster and less effeciently and that is where our McDojos come from-AMERICA. Not all Americans are this way. Please do not get me wrong-some americans learn to slow down and take there time how to learn the ways of the true Martial Art...not some half baked Sport karate that wouldn't help anyone on the street. All in all MA in America is a great thing, but please rememmber its origins, and respect the people that created it. :asian:

I'm OK with the fact that most Americans buy into the McDojo 'quicker and less efficient' philosophy. It puts the hardcore MA person into a unique minority. If everybody did MA, I probably wouldn't be nearly as interested in it. A small part of why I started was because I didn't know anybody who was an active MA'er.

 

[The Kai]

Why is it americanized = McDojo? Can we not make something american with depth, vaule and integrity?

 

[clfsean]

Why is it americanized = McDojo? Can we not make something american with depth, vaule and integrity?

Fast forward lifestyle?? Read the end of the book first?? Cliff notes as opposed to William Faulkner? Internet vs Webster's or World Book?

There are plenty of things we do with depth, value & integrity. I have yet to see it with MA.

In the MA people think that Black Belt is the "end all be all" when it's just the beginning. They hurry along to get it & then stay a little while. Then they either disagree with something or think they can do it better which will then cause them to leave school "A" & form style "XYZ", the greatest thing since squeeze bottle butter & proclaim themselves grandmaster. How much depth can you have there?

Or teacher "A" aligns with association "ABC" that proclaims him Head Poobah of the Universal style of Combat known as "Cheese". Where's the integrity there?

Or you go to school "WKRP" & sign up for $4400 to be a certified teacher in 2 year & *BLAM* in 2 years get your certificate & everything elese stating you're a certified teacher for "WKRP". Where's the value of that? That was a time share you just bought.

 

[Chronuss]

How can you improve on something that has existed & survived longer than our country? It seems that a martial art that has been around for say ... 200 or 300 years has proved it's worth & effectiveness if it's still being practiced "UNAMERICANIZED" today...

how are extremely low horse stances that were practiced on the bottom decks of ships going to be applied today in a practical situation, or kicks that were designed to take Koreans off miniature ponies...? ...knowledge is bound when one is compelled to tradition, knowledge is endless when tradition is bound.

 

[Enson]

how are extremely low horse stances that were practiced on the bottom decks of ships going to be applied today in a practical situation, or kicks that were designed to take Koreans off miniature ponies...? ...knowledge is bound when one is compelled to tradition, knowledge is endless when tradition is bound.

greatly said. there are things that are used in fighting that weren't used back in the old days and vice versa. one was taught in karate how to punch through armour, but no one wears armour nowadays. so to me this is silly. like i mentioned you have to adjust your style to what is happening or what could happen in today's society. if not you are just practicing a martial art, not martial art. get it?
peace

 

[clfsean]

how are extremely low horse stances that were practiced on the bottom decks of ships going to be applied today in a practical situation, or kicks that were designed to take Koreans off miniature ponies...? ...knowledge is bound when one is compelled to tradition, knowledge is endless when tradition is bound.

They weren't applied then like that. They were a training tool, just like they are now. It's great for stability & strength training, but realistically nobody fights like that now or then.

But to answer your question with a what if scenario... let's pretend somebody throws a punch at my head. I decide to duck & return the punch low to his abdomen or groin. Now let's pretend he's faster than I thought & throws another punch or kick. I've got two choices... one is stay & try to block the attack which will actually result in me eating the attack or move. I decide to move, but because my horse training sucks & I'm not used to being low on my feet & my legs are strained.... I can't. I get clocked.

BUT ... what happens if I have been practicing that "extremely low horse stances that were practiced on the bottom decks of ships" styled horse??? I move & do something different besides getting rocked...

This is not going to turn into a "Yeah well what if..." debate. This was just for a single explanation that can be easily digested.

As far as kicking people off ponies.... :mp5: