American

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by Cliarlaoch
Rich, I don't think the UN CAN censure the US. Doing so would cause even bigger problems for that organization. That said...

You raise a good point. I disagree with war, no matter what the cause. Somebody bloody well has to. That said, again, there does come a point where you need to stand up and fight. I just don't think the US ever managed to convince me, the world, or even a large number of its own citizens (Fox pundits aside) that there was just cause. There are some here who obviously disagree with me on that point, and that's fine. However, if you're gonna fight a war, you better be sure that it's for a good and justifiable cause, or else all the war'll do is breed more hatred, and more terrorists. That's a part of my concern, as well. Maybe Iraq wasn't a threat before the war, and maybe it was. If this war turns out to be a big mistake, though, it WILL be a threat AFTER the war.

Anyway, 'nuff said. I've spouted long enough. Respectfully stepping OFF the soapbox now and asking "Can't we all just get along."

(Resounding answer from the crowd... "NO!!!!")

The UN can NEVER censor the US because as one of the 5 permanent members, the US can just VETO the censor!

What a joke, huh? That is the UN to you. lol


As for the citizen of the US, over 65% approved the US President and IN SUPPORT of the war. ANd this is NOT from FOX, mind you.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Some interesting points in there....

I want to interject 1 comment....politics (like religion) gets hot n heavy...

Lets not let disagreement on some of these issues turn into a huge flame fest...

Keep it cool, k?

Much apreciated.

:asian:

 

[Cliarlaoch]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
The UN can NEVER censor the US because as one of the 5 permanent members, the US can just VETO the censor!

What a joke, huh? That is the UN to you. lol


As for the citizen of the US, over 65% approved the US President and IN SUPPORT of the war. ANd this is NOT from FOX, mind you.

Yeah, even I have to admit that the UN can't do much... sadly. It COULD do a lot more. But to do that, you need to amend the Charter of the UN, and for that you need US approval, and to make the US approve of the UN, you probably need to get the UN to do more. Catch-22 all over again.

As for the polls... I stand corrected. The rest of the world still disagrees, but Americans apparantly back the war. Fair enough. Error on my part.


Heh. Funny, this whole thread started as a commentary on flag-burning. It's gotten into all sorts of random tangents. Welcome to the "Magical MartialTalk Mystery Tour," folks. Never know quite where it'll wind up!

 

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by Cliarlaoch



Heh. Funny, this whole thread started as a commentary on flag-burning. It's gotten into all sorts of random tangents. Welcome to the "Magical MartialTalk Mystery Tour," folks. Never know quite where it'll wind up!

Couldnt have said it better myself.......:asian:

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
On the contrary, we are pissed b/c you folks are taking a free ride on our national defence. Because you know very well that if anything happen to you ie, any nation dumb enough to attack you, WE will be there to save your bacon, while you can sit on your *** and watch us defend you.

We have our own mandate to follow. We believe in the UN. You don't have to like it. Mostly because it's our country and not yours to do what we want.

If we're attacked and you feel that need to do what you're going to do then do it. if we want help we'll ask for it. if you feel the need to help then so be it.

Otherwise we're quite happy to do our own thing. Keep believing that you're our savior if you need to and it makes you feel good.
:idunno:

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
1. Carter put no economic policy inplace that benefited the nation. During Reagan's administration, the Fed chief Paul Vaulker (sp) broke the back of inflation by forcing a recession. That and Reagan's tax cut, worked together to create an economic boom , which brought the nation out of the malaise that Carter has doomed the nation in (by his all well-meaning by lack of vision, leadership. Carter is a good man; but a lousy president.) Reagan also rekindled the American CAN-DO spirit. Reagan won the Cold War and defeated communism for the free world.

AS a result, today you don't hear about inflation or the Soviet bear threat anymore. The younger generation does not even know what these are.

JN,

Good Points, that I knew of and agree with. Which is why I listed both sides.

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm

2. Japan is like a beached whale. Its banking system is still saddled with bad real estate/property loans and worthless stocks. They have no courage to reform the system. To reform the system would mean putting banks through bankruptcy, forcing corporate restructuring that causes unemployment. This will upset their much cherished social harmony. A violation of the social contract between the rulling class and the populace. So the rulling class does nothing. It is rotting from the inside out. You don't hear about the Japanese buying up or taking over anything in the western corporate world anymore. They are broke.

Yes, I understand your point, I also know that there world is in for a hurt as soon as more women go to work and as a culture they discover divorce. Just My Opinion.

That Said, I still do not think they are out of the fight. I happen to know Japanese companies doing more business here in the states. Yet this could be limited to my field.

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm

3. AS for KSA, once we have Iraq, the second largest proven reserve, who needs the KSA anymore? Their leverage as a energy supplier is going up in smoke. As a military base provider? Nah, we have Qatar, Kuwait etc. They and the Turks, manage to prove to us that we don't their stinking support any more. How intelligent of them, huh?

Besides, by controlling Iraq, the American suddenly has the key control on oil price ! Now, we can cripple Russia economically AT WILL. Russia is totally dependent on oil revenue. So is OPEC. Now, the American is the master of their fate.

As mentioned before, Iraq is a key piece of the puzzle in the greater scheme of the Empire's global strategy. Bush II essentially kills 2 birds with one stone. Defanging Saddam and Al Qaeda, and put America in the driver seat to continued world domination.

Originally, the US companies controlled most if not all of the oil fields in the Mid East, yet the Governments Nationalized them. Even if the US goes in and takes over, eventually they will be granted the right to elect their own citizens to power and their government will do what most others have done in history. National The greatest resources, and then wipe clean all debts owed to foriegn countries and businesses, and then start over.

I do not see the US becoming the GREAT NEW EMPIRE, you seem to be preaching here. The US would fall aprt from within before that would happen. Just my opinion.
:asian:

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Cliarlaoch
Rich, I don't think the UN CAN censure the US. Doing so would cause even bigger problems for that organization. That said...

Cliarlaoch,

Yes if the UN was to Censure the US then, in general it would be forcing the US to walk away from teh UN. This would then have the US (* and maybe some allies *) against the world. First, I do nto think the UN wishes this to happen as it would destroy their own power and organization. Second the US would not do well against the rest of the world, in my opinion, since we import so much, unless we get the empire attitude. Which I do not see happening. Third, If the US goes it with out the UN and then decides to create a New World Order or some such thing, then teh US would be dictating who would be members, and who has rights, etc. , ... , . Once again lengthy and politcal issues with in and without the US and also very costly monetarily.

So, I think we agree here.

Just my Opinion

:asian:

 

[GouRonin]

Canadian ships are over in the region on the previous mission of working in the war on terrorism.

We can't get involved offically until the UN says so but of course if the troops in the war on Iraq need supplies or help it wouldn't be neighbourly of us to deny them help and supplies now would it?


Afghanastan won't be rolling down the backside of the US troops as they work.

 

[sweeper]

When you folks in the U.S. get to see the footage of the American P.O.W's being displayed in front of the cameras, you might get behind your people on the front line a bit more.

well perhaps I have mis stated my position a bit.. I don't agree with the war, I didn't think there was a good reason for it before it started, so how could I think there is a good reason for it now?

At the same time I'm not saying we should up and leave iraq, I'm not for stopping the war, now that we are there we might as well finish it, and I am deffinatly in support of our troops, I don't see an inherant contradiction between being against a military action and supporting the soldiers in that given military action..

 

[GouRonin]

Grrr... C'mon UN...get it together. Some of us are chomping at the bit.

 

[Cliarlaoch]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons

So, I think we agree here.

Just my Opinion

:asian:

So do I, actually. No worries. I don't think I was trying to say we didn't... could be wrong. Probably an error on my part. As usual.



Meanwhile, if anyone knows any way wherein an eager Canadian (Gou) can enlist to kill things, that'd be good, 'cuz it looks like he's getting antsy for some more Chinatown. All we've got up here are overactive gophers and other assorted fauna... and they're protected by environmental laws. And they can't fight back. The cowards.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by GouRonin
Canadian ships are over in the region on the previous mission of working in the war on terrorism.

We can't get involved offically until the UN says so but of course if the troops in the war on Iraq need supplies or help it wouldn't be neighbourly of us to deny them help and supplies now would it?


Afghanastan won't be rolling down the backside of the US troops as they work.

I believe that two full divison of Canadian Troops went to Afghanastam to relieve US Troops for the Iraq Theater.

For that I say thank you to the Canadians. :asian:

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Cliarlaoch
Meanwhile, if anyone knows any way wherein an eager Canadian (Gou) can enlist to kill things, that'd be good, 'cuz it looks like he's getting antsy for some more Chinatown.

I've never killed anything that didn't need killin'.

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by GouRonin
.... Mostly because it's our country and not yours to do what we want.....

LMAO.... Yeah that has never stopped you Canadians and just about every Dick, and Harry from Europe and the rest of the world from telling the US how WE should use OUR tax dollars to help out some worthless free loading slobs.

Just remember that line when you feel like telling US what we should do with OUR money. lol

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

THere is nothing wrong with the Canadian folks. But the left wing government they have over there, has committed treason but letting their national defense rot away. Other than the elite Task Force and the Sniper teams, the Canadian regular forces are totally wrecked. The budgeted increase in defense spending has been stolen to buy choppers for the useless politicians. What a disgrace. Really sorry for the Canadians.

 

[GouRonin]

A crying shame we spend our money how we want.

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

Originally posted by sweeper
well perhaps I have mis stated my position a bit.. I don't agree with the war, I didn't think there was a good reason for it before it started, so how could I think there is a good reason for it now?

At the same time I'm not saying we should up and leave iraq, I'm not for stopping the war, now that we are there we might as well finish it, and I am deffinatly in support of our troops, I don't see an inherant contradiction between being against a military action and supporting the soldiers in that given military action..

I oppose the war too. I just think that we should just fly high in the stratosphere and simply keep bombing every one of Saddam's palaces and bunkers, day and night for however long it takes until we fry his ***.

 

[Cliarlaoch]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
THere is nothing wrong with the Canadian folks. But the left wing government they have over there, has committed treason but letting their national defense rot away. Other than the elite Task Force and the Sniper teams, the Canadian regular forces are totally wrecked. The budgeted increase in defense spending has been stolen to buy choppers for the useless politicians. What a disgrace. Really sorry for the Canadians.

Ironically, the majority of the policies the current "Liberal" government of Canada has implemented have been anything BUT left-wing. Fence-sitting would be more appropriate. Then again, since Ontario has all the votes, and Ontario likes the Liberal party's economic policies... not much chance of getting them out of power for a while. The Friendly Dictatorship. Sadly, it's no joke.

On the other hand, I happen to like public health care and education. Nice thing to have. It breeds its own problems, of course (like dependency on welfare, and problems with the quality of service in some areas that can't get as much funding). Then again, when my father has to shell out 25,000 dollars, US, to get brain surgery on a tumour in the US, I can't complain when my own medical is covered here for free. I'm grateful for what I've got, although, I do think we can always strive to do better!

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

Definitely not all Canadian public policies are wrong, and neither all American policies (domestic or foreign) are right. The US has far more than its share of harebrain policies. For example, we spend $150 billion US dollar a year, stationing troops in Europe. What a monumental waste! Just who the heck are we defending them from anymore? There is no more communist threat anymore. Even the Russian wants to join NATO and the EU!

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
Definitely not all Canadian public policies are wrong, and neither all American policies (domestic or foreign) are right.

I'd agree with that. It'll be a cold day in hell before anyone anywhere agrees on most anything.

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
I just think that we should just fly high in the stratosphere and simply keep bombing every one of Saddam's palaces and bunkers, day and night for however long it takes until we fry his ***.

I can't say I disagree with that. In fact, I don't know of anyone who likes this guy. When you kill your own people what kind of ruler does that make you? A ruler of no one.

As much as I try to believe in the UN they should have followed through with the consequences of his actions. Right or wrong for troops to be there this early you will NOT hear me bad mouth them for being there. I won't cut off anyone's legs when they're trying to win a race for the good of everyone.

You will definately have at least this Canuck cheering for my Southourn neighbours!