Am I Dealing With a Reduced Dating Pool?

[Bruno@MT]

The blindness exercise only works so far. I can hear if her voice is part of the ethnicity I refuse to date, I can feel the fat on her body if I touch her in any way and discover if she is overweight.

Look I can sort of understand the fact that you want an attractive partner. I simply chose the one that I fell truly and deeply in love with, and I happened to find her good looking. I did not start to look for goodlooking women and then chose someone. Let your heart do the selection process.

Anyway, what I don't get: why does the ethnicity thing bother you?
If you were blind and you couldn't even see your wife, what would the color of her skin matter? It can't be the looks, since you're not seeing them.
Skin color imo is the one trait that is completely irrelevant if you are blind.

Actually, I think it is irrelevant even with eyesight.

 

[LoneRider]

Why does ethnicity matter? Well first I'm not a fan of Filipino women. They remind me too much of my relatives to be desireable (this was actually the only serious fight me and my father have had in my 26 years of living is my refusal to date Filipino women.) He used to press me to date 'a good Filipina' when I was a teenager and I couldn't stand it. To date a Filipina woman now would be yielding my will to his!

 

[Bruno@MT]

To date a Filipina woman now would be yielding my will to his!

Personally I think pride and spite are wrong motivators to base life's decisions on. If you are looking for a partner with your mind and based on criteria, then be prepared never to find love. Love is a matter of the heart, not of the mind or the ego.

 

[celtic_crippler]

Women are great...all of 'em!!

 

[blindsage]

Are you looking for love and a long term relationship or are you looking for a movie cliche?

There's nothing wrong with being with a woman you find particularly attractive, what more experienced people are telling you is to stop worrying about it. If you only talk to women that are particularly attractive to you physically at first then you are putting a priority on physical attractiveness, that's just a fact. You seem to be ok with this, and that's great, but if you are looking for a long term, healthy, sustainable relationship that's the ***-backwards way to find it. If you want that kind of relationship then the priority has to be on finding someone who has the relationship skills to pull it off and a personality that works with yours, anything else is the really hard route. This is what the more experienced people are trying to relay to you. This doesn't mean you can't, or won't, or shouldn't be with a woman you are physically attracted to, it means you need to shift your focus and priority.

As for you and the white woman/filipino women/your dad issue, you seriously just need to get over it. It's not 'yielding' your will to his if you do it because you want to. If my friend offers me a Coke and I say I don't want one and he insists over and over again I keep saying I'm not in the mood, but 3 hours later I really feel like a Coke, am I a dumbass for drinking one because I might appear to be 'yielding my will to his', or am I a dumbass for not drinking one when I really want to? And the whole reminding you of family is ridiculous, I've know a lot of filipina's over the years and I find it stupid and offensive that you would imply that they're basically all the same. Maybe I shouldn't have married my wife because she's white and I'm white and well darn it she's just like all the other white women in the world and I don't want a white women because that's like marrying family. Patently ridiculous.

 

[Jenny_in_Chico]

It looks as if I'm the first woman to post a reply in here. Very exciting.

First of all, I can't fault the OP for not finding overweight women attractive. In my younger years I spent a lot of unhappy moments wondering why men were so shallow. Then I realized that attraction cannot be forced, and that everyone has a particular suite of characteristics that they use for mate choice. Those characteristics can be based on looks, personality, or a combination of both. Once I admitted to myself that I found only certain types of men attractive, I could no longer judge men for not finding ME attractive. I am attracted to assertive, confident, alpha-male types, and I made the mistake of marrying a submissive male because I thought he was a good man who would never leave me. I tried to force attraction that wasn't there, and it was a miserable failure.

So the OP doesn't like fat chicks...BFD. Doesn't make him shallow, it just makes him like ALMOST EVERY OTHER MAN. He doesn't want to date Filipinas because they elicit his incest reaction...I really can't fault him there. There exists a huge scientific literature on human mate choice, and it is pretty clear that men and women want to mate with people that are similar, but not identical, to their relatives. In the OP's case, his mental pool of "relatives" seems to include all Filipinas...they all trigger that "keep away" reaction. Doesn't mean he's racist, doesn't mean he secretly hates himself or his family.

To the OP: I think the most useful advice has been offered already...keep an open mind, be confident, and eventually a woman will spark your interest. To your surprise, that woman may be plumper than you envisioned, or have blonde or red hair, but she may possess a personality trait that over-rides your other preferences. Some preferences can't be over-ridden (such as my preference for alpha males), but others can (I prefer bald/shaved heads, but will date a man with hair). Whether the issue is mate choice or some other, it is the wise person who knows what is negotiable and what isn't.

Jenny

 

[Bruno@MT]

To the OP: I think the most useful advice has been offered already...keep an open mind, be confident, and eventually a woman will spark your interest. To your surprise, that woman may be plumper than you envisioned, or have blonde or red hair, but she may possess a personality trait that over-rides your other preferences.

So true. I am a sucker for natural redheads with green eyes, freckles, and sporty. Yet I fell like a brick for my wife, who is dark eyed with black hair.

Some preferences can't be over-ridden (such as my preference for alpha males), but others can (I prefer bald/shaved heads, but will date a man with hair). Whether the issue is mate choice or some other, it is the wise person who knows what is negotiable and what isn't.
Jenny

Aye. Once you have found someone who you think you love, that is when you determine if there are irreconcilable differences or not.

 

[LoneRider]

So the OP doesn't like fat chicks...BFD. Doesn't make him shallow, it just makes him like ALMOST EVERY OTHER MAN. He doesn't want to date Filipinas because they elicit his incest reaction...I really can't fault him there. There exists a huge scientific literature on human mate choice, and it is pretty clear that men and women want to mate with people that are similar, but not identical, to their relatives. In the OP's case, his mental pool of "relatives" seems to include all Filipinas...they all trigger that "keep away" reaction. Doesn't mean he's racist, doesn't mean he secretly hates himself or his family.

Thanks for that Jenny. I'm glad someone sees nothing wrong with the fact that I don't like Filipinas as potential dates or girlfriends.

To your surprise, that woman may be plumper than you envisioned, or have blonde or red hair, but she may possess a personality trait that over-rides your other preferences.

Personality traits can work to overcome almost any other physical trait but plumpness is a HUGE turnoff. I have tried to compromise on this but I do not find fat to be attractive. A woman can have all the personality in the world and be very smart but if she's fat I shall not approach her.

 

[Sukerkin]

That aversion too may change, my friend.

Again I speak from experience - my missus is fat and has been for as long as I've known her (which is knocking on for 15 years).

For pretty much all that time I have thought she was one of the best natured women I'd ever met, regardless of her 'size'. But she was involved with a friend of mine, so I didn't really have to address her weight as a relationship factor - I do recall mind you having a conversation with another friend on whether it mattered or not (I said "no", he said "yes"). When the chap she was with dumped her (ironically enough , for a small Asian lass) I thought he was daft - but his loss was my gain (after a couple of years) .

Nothing is ever fixed in this game. The parameters always change. So I went from relationships with tall, busty, trim, brunettes to a short, plump, blond. I didn't 'settle' for her, I chose her. Life is full of surprises .

In the end, we can advise and espouse our experiences but none of us are you. Only you can pick your path. May it lead where you wish and not leave too many cracks in your heart along the way.

 

[Tez3]

alright, now you are coming a cross as a guy looking for sex first thing my wife said, and that is what women see, so what are you looking for a woman or sex? you can be honest with us because i think there are all guys in this thread and if not you have probably blown it with any woman who reads this thread.
so what is it, sex or relationship?

Crow, you are priceless!

and for the record I'm female lol (sorry you weren't the first Jenny)

 

[zDom]

Why is the shallow end of the pool labeled 'shallow'? Because it's not the deep end. So let's say that the term 'shallow' is a descriptor, it does not have to have a rude or insulting meaning. It just is what it is.

Now, as to why a person is shallow if they place physical attractiveness higher on the list of 'must haves' in a mate than personality, intelligence, or other properties such as a similar sense of humor, political or religious values, etc; it is because of all of these, physical appearance is absolutely going to change in time. It is transitory, even for those who 'age well' and are 'well-preserved'. Eventually, it is gone.

If I am buying a tomato, I am very interested in what it tastes like today, but not so much in what it tastes like a year from now. Appearance makes a big difference, and it makes sense to use it to make a judgment. If I am buying a car, a shiny paint job might be nice, but it has nothing to do with how well the car runs. It's a poor indicator of how good the car is. Relationships are (supposedly) for the long-term. Appearance is a poor indicator of how well people are suited for each other.

Does that make sense?

I suggest you take a reading comprehension course so you can respond to what is written, not what you THINK was written.

Slow down and take a deep breath before making another attempt: obviously this is an emotionally charged subject for you, Bill.

Shallow is clearly pejorative when used in this context. I find your patronizing definition and "explanation" considerably more insulting than being called "shallow," however

I have never claimed that they were mutually exclusive. There are many people with deep and wonderful character who are also quite attractive, no doubt about it.

What I said was that placing physical attractiveness as the first criteria on a list of attributes one seeks in a mate is shallow. If that offends you, then it offends you; I won't retract it.

First of all, I was addressing the OP, although I can see how you responded as you are clearly one of those feel justified in declaring someone shallow based solely on an aversion to obesity.

What I said, exactly, was (bolds added to assist you)

"A preference for a well-toned body in a mate and a depth of character are not mutually exclusive and I resent those who claim they are."

There are plenty of people who like hot bodies who also, believe it or not, and LIKE it or not, have considerable depth of character. I fancy myself to be among them.

I've never heard of two people who dislike each other staying together because they each think the other is hot. Have you?

Er ... yes, actually I HAVE. But I would agree that it isn't healthy

And let's revisit a point I made earlier. If you marry because you find a person attractive, is it OK to divorce if they stop being attractive? What if they find you no longer attractive, should they kick you to the curb? Let's say you grow a paunch in your middle age, or start to lose your hair, or get in an accident (God forbid) and are not as 'attractive' as you once were? OK for your mate to toss your stuff out in the street because you're ugly now?

Imagine someday being asked by your kids "Daddy, why did you and mommy get divorced?" And you reply, "Well, you see, son, mommy was no longer a MILF, so I had to toss her out. Sorry you grew up without a mommy in your life, but if she ain't hot, I'm not going to have her in my house."

I reiterate - physical beauty is a poor basis for forming a relationship, and people who do so are not only shallow, they're doomed to have very poor relationships, IMHO.

Just because something is on the list, doesn't mean it necessarily is higher on the list — as the OP has clarified.

But if someone is hardwired to find obesity unattractive, that has nothing to do with the content of their character any more than a preference for blue eyes or dark skin. And those who maintain it does: are shallow

I won't go point by point through the rest of your rant, but in closing: beauty IS in the eye of the beholder. If someone is attractive to me now, they will continue to be even as we age. Wrinkles don't change that.

And you keep interchanging beauty and weight as if they are one and the same to those who prefer people who are not obese. I have seen beautiful women that I believe would be even more attractive if they would get in shape and women who are in great shape who are still not attractive to me,

 

[Cryozombie]

Crow, you are priceless!

and for the record I'm female lol

Yeah, but we dont think of you that way Tez.

Hehe.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I suggest you take a reading comprehension course so you can respond to what is written, not what you THINK was written.

Thanks, have done. Probably a lot more than most.

Slow down and take a deep breath before making another attempt: obviously this is an emotionally charged subject for you, Bill.

Not really. The OP asked questions, which he has mainly answered himself. I stated that the reason he was facing a reduced dating pool was due to his own choices, which he has agreed with and now states as his own original ideas. Now he whines that everyone thinks he's a bad person, when no one has called him that. I stated his choices make him shallow, and they do.

Shallow is clearly pejorative when used in this context. I find your patronizing definition and "explanation" considerably more insulting than being called "shallow," however

And I need reading comprehension courses?

First of all, I was addressing the OP, although I can see how you responded as you are clearly one of those feel justified in declaring someone shallow based solely on an aversion to obesity.

Oh, I do feel so justified. If someone has an aversion to obesity, that is a personal choice, and entirely their own to make. It doesn't make them a bad person, but it does make them shallow.

What I said, exactly, was (bolds added to assist you)

"A preference for a well-toned body in a mate and a depth of character are not mutually exclusive and I resent those who claim they are."

And as I stated, I never said that they did. Again, reading skills come into play here. I've never said any such thing, nor has anyone in this thread. What I have said is now well-documented. You can twist my words as you wish, but it doesn't change what I've said.

There are plenty of people who like hot bodies who also, believe it or not, and LIKE it or not, have considerable depth of character. I fancy myself to be among them.

You twist words again. There is a distinct difference between liking a 'hot body' and making that property a top criteria for dating. You fancy incorrectly.

Er ... yes, actually I HAVE. But I would agree that it isn't healthy

Good to see that we can agree on something.

Just because something is on the list, doesn't mean it necessarily is higher on the list — as the OP has clarified.

He has stated he will not date an obese person or one he feels is unattractive. That's a clear and unambiguous statement. I said it makes him shallow. It does. End of story.

But if someone is hardwired to find obesity unattractive, that has nothing to do with the content of their character any more than a preference for blue eyes or dark skin. And those who maintain it does: are shallow

You can redefine terms as you wish, but you'd be incorrect. Shallow is another term for superficial. People who are superficial are attracted to properties that have nothing to do with character, personality, intelligence, wit, or a variety of other attributes people possess that makes them a good (or bad) match for others.

And no one is 'hardwired' to prefer any given size. It is learned behavior, and purely cultural. At various times in our own history, voluptuous women and men of girth have been considered attractive and even desirous. That they are not now is simply due to the current zeitgeist.

I will posit that if we lived in times when women of size were considered 'hot', choosing to date only heavy women (for their hotness) would be as shallow as rejecting them is now.

I won't go point by point through the rest of your rant, but in closing: beauty IS in the eye of the beholder. If someone is attractive to me now, they will continue to be even as we age. Wrinkles don't change that.

I have no way of knowing what you or anyone else will consider attractive in the future. I do believe that as people age, they knock off the cheap crap and some begin to use their brains where their testicles used to roam freely.

And you keep interchanging beauty and weight as if they are one and the same to those who prefer people who are not obese. I have seen beautiful women that I believe would be even more attractive if they would get in shape and women who are in great shape who are still not attractive to me,

I have answered both statements by the OP with regard to size and attractiveness. I have not stated that they are one and the same. Again with the word-twisting.

In any case, I'm not ranting. I have a great capacity to rant if the cause be just, but this isn't. I'm mildly amused.

 

[Sukerkin]

An important point in the above is that societal norms for what is 'attractive' (TM) change greatly over time. Thus, we are all judging something from a scale that moves almost as we speak .

Media has a lot to answer for in terms of what is judged attractive or desireable - usually driving things in the way of skinny-clothes-rail in the past couple of decades. Not a great shape for a woman in my opinion but who am I to say?

 

[Ken Morgan]

Yeah, but we dont think of you that way Tez.

Hehe.

I thought TEZ was a guy for the longest time! Often its really hard to tell by the written word on a forum...

Lonerider, date whom ever you want to date. No one else has to live your life but you, so to Hell with everyone else’s opinions. To enjoy life, you need to simply do what you want to do.

 

[Carol]

Its no concern of us who he dates. But given in two previous posts he stated that he had no luck so far with ladies and consumed with a fear that he'd meet an untimely fate in the service without having ever known love - I think all folks here are trying to say is that if that fear really is as deep and as consuming as he is emoting it to be - then perhaps it would be wise to rethink the restrictions one is putting on oneself.

Ultimately it is LoneRider that has to take action (or not), and then live with the consequences/results of his (in)actions, whether that result is more alone time, the girl of his dreams, or something in between.

 

[Tez3]

I'm now trying to decide if I've been insulted or not here ROFLMAO.

It comes from working with men almost exclusively I think since I was 18, thing is though at work I always wear a skirt and shows instead of trousers (I know that word makes Americans laugh lol) and boots, I even wear black stockings (they come in handy if you want to strangle someone or you need a fan belt in the car). I get less aggression that way.
and on that note I'm off to work. See you in 12 hours!

 

[Bruno@MT]

Lonerider, date whom ever you want to date. No one else has to live your life but you, so to Hell with everyone else’s opinions. To enjoy life, you need to simply do what you want to do.

That is true, but if he didn't want to know our opinions, he shouldn't have asked for them.

 

[Bruno@MT]

An important point in the above is that societal norms for what is 'attractive' (TM) change greatly over time. Thus, we are all judging something from a scale that moves almost as we speak .

An interesting thing is that physical attraction can be triggered by non physical things.

Take these 2 examples:

Apart from the obvious (to me ) fact that these women look drop dead gorgeous in black, what attracts me to them is that in their respective roles, they play mentally strong women with an independent streak who can take care of themselves.

If I'd confuse that attraction for just the physical one, I could end up thinking that I had to find a woman who -looks- like them, and possibly never find true love. Instead, I know that their (movie) traits are what I desire for long term commitment.

My wife does not look like these 2 ladies, but she has those character traits, which means that we can live together for the long term (married 7 years now). I believe in a marriage between equals, so I expect her to be able to take care of herself and not be a damsel in distress as soon as anything happens. And the looks fade anyway. If Kate Beckinsale had 2 pregnancies and worked long days in a responsible desk job, she wouldn't look like pic 1 anymore.

 

[Ken Morgan]

That is true, but if he didn't want to know our opinions, he shouldn't have asked for them.

Agreed and I don't know why he did it in the first place.