Aikido.. The reality?

[Shatteredzen]

I’m pretty sure those guys call what they do “combat sports”.

Lol, I actually blinked and paused for a minute before laughing. I assume you are serious which makes it super funny.

 

[drop bear]

Ok, because we all know we need ground fighting, that means BJJ must go in the swiss army knife. No, BJJ has zero strikes and no standing techniques in it, there may be gyms that train those, but then we come back to the fact that I learned Aikido alongside BJJ and Judo among other stuff and am not advocating for it to be trained alone with the aim of becoming well rounded. So why does it bother you so badly that someone might want to train Aikido to add it to their tool kit? Pretty much every law enforcement or military agency has at least a few things from Aikido, like the first two wristlocks in MCMAP, because they work, because they have saved lives or filled a hole or niche that those systems wanted to teach.

On top of just the techniques, you have methods of movement, footwork and dealing with an attacker which you don't get from other systems or you would have to develop by cherry picking things out of multiple other systems. You are applying an unfair standard that can't be met and that the system was never intended for. Ueshiba's pre war students were competent fighters when they came to him. I'm a freaking instructor myself and I'm saying that its not the only thing that you should train, that is different than casting the aspersion that the system is worthless.

Which then is becomes your job to make the case that the parts you say work in Aikido work.

Rather than hanging off the coat tails of bjj wrist locks or Wrestling throws or boxing strikes.

All of which have plenty of evidence that they work.

Bjj wrist locks

Bjj stand up.

Bjj slap jitsu.

 

[Shatteredzen]

Ok I gotta go pickup my kid for the weekend so don't expect any responses from me for a bit. Someone please make sure Hanzou doesn't try to bully anyone else into his wierd kinda culty underground Kumite club, the candy is a lie and it's hard to get back out of the van they pick you up in which kinda scares me. I sincerely hope everyone has a great weekend. Even Martial D who I'm worried has a stroke with that weird one word response earlier. Drop bear, please drink a bundy for me, we can't get it here in CA just the root beer

 

[Hanzou]

Lol, I actually blinked and paused for a minute before laughing. I assume you are serious which makes it super funny.

Combat sport - Wikipedia

 

[Flying Crane]

Sorry no refunds on that one. lol

Pretty much. He wasn't like this until he discovered he couldn't use Aikido. Misery love company I guess.

Yay know, he hits subjects that are fair game for discussion and are done ad nauseum here in the forums. The general topic of how one trains with the intention of developing genuinely useable skills. Sure, it’s a valid topic.

It’s this nonsense of, I don’t believe these systems work [systems that he himself hasn’t even trained] and I want you all to prove it to me if you disagree with me. What kind of self-entitled mentality does it take to make a demand like that? I don’t understand why anyone would give any oxygen to that. It is just mystifying, seeing people get sucked into that kind of open debate. The guy isn’t even a member of the forum here to take part in an actual discussion. And yet here it is, getting debated. Why give him any of that?

how about: no. How about: I don’t give a rat’s *** what he believes or does not believe. How about: grow up.

 

[Shatteredzen]

Yay know, he hits subjects that are fair game for discussion and are done ad nauseum here in the forums. The general topic of how one trains with the intention of developing genuinely useable skills. Sure, it’s a valid topic.

It’s this nonsense of, I don’t believe these systems work [systems that he himself hasn’t even trained] and I want you all to prove it to me if you disagree with me. What kind of self-entitled mentality does it take to make a demand like that? I don’t understand why anyone would give any oxygen to that. It is just mystifying, seeing people get sucked into that kind of open debate. The guy isn’t even a member of the forum here to take part in an actual discussion. And yet here it is, getting debated. Why give him any of that?

how about: no. How about: I don’t give a rat’s *** what he believes or does not believe. How about: grow up.

I do agree its entirely disrespectful to see people trying to denigrate other systems, but its a new world and these kids nowadays hold nothing sacred. When it get's to be too much I will quit, since at the end of the day, this is an internet martial arts talk, which some people seem to have forgotten. I'm hoping for the rare nuggets of people asking real questions and practicing my verbal uke/nage against the trolls.

 

[Shatteredzen]

Combat sport - Wikipedia

lol, ok I'm really leaving, have a nice weekend everyone...

 

[Martial D]

Is this a statement or question?

I thought you left...

No, I'm done taking you seriously. That was me correcting you for the rest of the readership.

 

[Flying Crane]

I do agree its entirely disrespectful to see people trying to denigrate other systems, but its a new world and these kids nowadays hold nothing sacred. When it get's to be too much I will quit, since at the end of the day, this is an internet martial arts talk, which some people seem to have forgotten. I'm hoping for the rare nuggets of people asking real questions and practicing my verbal uke/nage against the trolls.

I think folks need to sometimes remind themselves that just because someone says something stupid on the internet, doesn’t mean they need to jump in with both feet and try to “correct” their perception. There are all kinds of know-nothings all over the internet, spouting all kinds of uninformed and uneducated idiocy. Don’t take the bait. Seriously, it doesn’t matter what most of these fellows think. The rest of the world does not look to them as the final authority in this matter, and most of the general public is savvy enough to recognize when someone has an axe to grind.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Ok, I would absolutely grab a couple classes and some Bundys in a can during a trip, I'm not saying it doesn't look nice. It just aint Marlboro country. You can get very fit doing P90X, it will not make you a Navy Seal.

They don't smoke enough there? I'm confused what your complaint about their program is.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

So we are moving in to weasel words again?

Well, you have effectively said that words don't mean anything if they can be interpreted differently by different people.

 

[geezer]

Ok, I watched the two videos and I want my 13 minutes back ...seriously, I don’t get why anyone responds to this garbage.

Oh c'mon Crane, were all friends here. Don't hold back ...tell us how you really feel!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

No no, the Aikido wristlocks that you swear don't work. There's no stand up techniques in BJJ, those are Judo that are taught/included with the system so that you don't have to ask the opponent to start the fight like you would in rolling practice. Here's the problem with evaluating one system as a swiss army knife, none of them are.

Um, Judo was the original base of BJJ. They didn't need to add any to it. Essentially, the original BJJ stuff was mostly a subset of Judo.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

That peach is still up?

Pretty sure it is. I haven't driven past Gaffney in a few years (we live off I-26 now, but we used to live off I-85). I'd be surprised if they ever get rid of it.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Lol, I actually blinked and paused for a minute before laughing. I assume you are serious which makes it super funny.

It's a commonly used term.

 

[Hanzou]

Um, Judo was the original base of BJJ. They didn't need to add any to it. Essentially, the original BJJ stuff was mostly a subset of Judo.

I would also like to point out that there are stand up techniques in Bjj, and thanks to decades of cross pollination and street fighting, they’re closer to wrestling than they are to Judo.

 

[JowGaWolf]

It gets weaseled around. So you get told you can fight but then told you shouldn't want to.

yeah I can see that , I've heard similar within some kung fu circles and it's an instant irritant for me. I rather here that they don't train fighting application but focus on form training and historical context..

Yay know, he hits subjects that are fair game for discussion and are done ad nauseum here in the forums. The general topic of how one trains with the intention of developing genuinely useable skills. Sure, it’s a valid topic.

It’s this nonsense of, I don’t believe these systems work [systems that he himself hasn’t even trained] and I want you all to prove it to me if you disagree with me. What kind of self-entitled mentality does it take to make a demand like that? I don’t understand why anyone would give any oxygen to that. It is just mystifying, seeing people get sucked into that kind of open debate. The guy isn’t even a member of the forum here to take part in an actual discussion. And yet here it is, getting debated. Why give him any of that?

how about: no. How about: I don’t give a rat’s *** what he believes or does not believe. How about: grow up.

It gets oxygen because people believe what he says and they use his "experience and logic" as an example or provide proof that some other logic is correct,. Then it like it is now turns into a conversation were people will then point out why he had such a bad experience why his training was lacking. It's a cycle

 

[Flying Crane]

yeah I can see that , I've heard similar within some kung fu circles and it's an instant irritant for me. I rather here that they don't train fighting application but focus on form training and historical context..

It gets oxygen because people believe what he says and they use his "experience and logic" as an example or provide proof that some other logic is correct,. Then it like it is now turns into a conversation were people will then point out why he had such a bad experience why his training was lacking. It's a cycle

Sure, he had experience in something [aikido, apparently] but then he transforms it into “wing Chun and Krav Maga are no good, you need to prove otherwise to me.”

nobody needs to prove anything to him. If he had a negative experience with aikido, then he ought to talk about that and figure out where he went wrong or where his training was lacking or where he failed to step up in the training, or that he needs to recognize that aikido was a bad choice for him and he just doesn’t connect with the methodology properly and he ought to do something else instead.

but his vilifying other systems and petulantly demanding that these other systems be justified to him, is idiotic.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The issue of Aikido is still the training method.

Do Aikido guys train how to

1. apply a wrist lock?
2. counter a wrist lock?
3. counter the counter of a wrist lock?

I'm sure they do 1, but not sure if they do 2, and 3.

If we apply this requirement on other MA systems, we may find some MA systems are also lacking this kind of training.

 

[Hanzou]

The issue of Aikido is still the training method.

Do Aikido guys train how to

1. apply a wrist lock?
2. counter a wrist lock?
3. counter the counter of a wrist lock?

I'm sure they do 1, but not sure if they do 2, and 3.

If we apply this requirement on other MA systems, we may find some MA systems are also lacking this kind of training.

I can buy that. You develop that from free sparring though, which they seemingly don’t do.