Aikido.. The reality?

[Steve]

And there you have it. Your belief.

I was making a joke. I believe you didn’t get it.

 

[JowGaWolf]

So sticking with your example of flying... nobody did this.

Are you sure? Someone didn't think it was cool. Lots of stories about flying things
The dream of flight
Source: https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/dreamofflight/dream-dream.html

 

[Steve]

What is the extreme that I'm trying to justify?

Oh my man. If you don’t see it , I won’t be able to explain it.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I was making a joke. I believe you didn’t get it.

ha ha ha. I got. But I also know that as soon, as I tell you that this statement is your belief. That you will create another belief without evidence. lol.

 

[drop bear]

Anyway men flew on kites in Ancient China.

Manned Flight in Ancient China

So it was possible well before the Wright brothers or even Divinchi.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Oh my man. If you don’t see it , I won’t be able to explain it.

That's fine. A claim you can't explain. I can live with that.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I believe you believe that it’s evidence based.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Anyway men flew on kites in Ancient China.

Manned Flight in Ancient China

So it was possible well before the Wright brothers or even Divinchi.

Yep. The idea of flying has been around for a long time. According to some sources Egyptians had success with it too, not on kites but gliders. I don't the full story of it's one of those things you hear on a history channel in passing. I listed just enough to say "hmmm interesting" and then turned the channel.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Are you describing Astronomy?

Definition of Astronomy
"the branch of science which deals with celestial objects, space, and the physical universe as a whole."

Astrology doesn't fit this definition.
It deals with celestial objects, but it doesn't say anything about space or the physical universe as a whole. When you keep track of the sun to tell time. Are you studying space or the physical universe as a whole? Or are you using the sun as a marker for the purpose of earthly events such as seasons, time, and in some cases religious events. Does a Sun Dial have any baring on space? Or is it only for earthly concepts and measurements of time?

 

[Oily Dragon]

When the entirety of the training is cooperative larping fantasy is exactly what it is.

Is that even a complete sentence in English?

Please, tell me, which cooperative larping fantasy touched you, and where.

 

[Oily Dragon]

So if crystal healing used bigger rocks then it would be scientifically valid?

I don't understand what you're trying to say.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The way that I'm using belief is correct.
"I hope that I will win the lottery when I play it, but I don't ever believe that I will."

Hope and belief are not the same thing. Hope is a desire or expectation that something will happen.
I hope I won't get sick. (if you get sick then you might say this.
is not the same as
I believe I won't get sick. (if you are rarely or never sick, then you might say this.)


Have you ever had an ambition in something that you don't believe?

Just because when something is already a fact in someone's mind doesn't mean that they don't feel the need to prove it.

Some people believe in climate change. In their minds, yet they still go out to prove it.

Some people believed that the earth is flat in their minds, yet they still go out to prove it.

Some people believed that witches are real and evil and they burned and drown people at the stake for that.

I believed that kung fu was an effective fighting system before I experienced it. I still believe kung fu is a good effective fighting system. I'm always saying that I want to be a good representation of Jow Ga to show that kung fu can be used. The reason I say belief because there is still some Jow Ga that I know know how to use. The only thing I have to go on is that someone told me it could be used, and on the hope that my understanding of Jow Ga is enough for me to figure it out.

The only things that I don't try to prove in my life are internal things. For example. I don't try to prove the reasoning of my spiritual beliefs. Why? Because my spiritual beliefs don't have anything to do with anyone else. I don't try to prove that I'm a nice guy. I'm not nice to please others. I'm nice because I see some personal benefit in being so. For example, being nice means that I'm less likely to be punched in the mouth.

The more internal something is the less I care about proving it. The more external something is the more important it becomes for me to show the proof. I teach kung fu, so it's not good enough for me to not care if what I believe is fact. Other people may depend on me being accurate about my knowledge and understanding of Kung Fu.

If I were to train you how to fight with Jow Ga Kung Fu. I would only teach you what I can use. I would never teach you what I believe could be use.

Going back to where you used flight as an example of belief before evidence, I think you're limiting what would have been evidence prior to powered human flight. First, there had been birds, bats, and squirrels flying and gliding all around them. Long before powered flight, gliding was a thing, which was preceded by gliding toys. There was evidence all around that flight was possible.

I don't have to be able to do something myself to have evidence it's possible I could.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Only when there was evidence.

Maybe you accept Icarus as evidence? Maybe angels? A lot of cultures have winged humans long before actual flight.

Yes, and no doubt at least some of them actually believed that with wings (as demonstrated by the evidence of bird flight all around them), humans would be able to fly.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Sure. Very easy. You can see for yourself.

Design something that has never existed on this planet before. Meaning that there is no evidence that it is possible there is no evidence that it isn't possible.

Start there. Once you are there. You let me know where your idea comes from in the absence of evidence.

At what point in human flight was something designed that wasn't supported by any prior evidence?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

If you take my challenge then you will be one of the many who have done it. The first thing that will come to your mind is the idea void of evidence, then the belief that it is something that you can make true.

There is an abundance of evidence that animals live in the deepest parts of the ocean. Name one human that lives there? Yet there is a lot of evidence that life is there.

I think you're confounding evidence and conclusion, now. Evidence is a starting point that leads to a conclusion. There is evidence that pressure in water is bad for humans beyond a point, and that building and maintaining structures to resist that pressure is expensive. Put that with the evidence that mammals can live deep in the ocean, and you end up with a conclusion that it's likely possible for people to live deep in the ocean, but that it's difficult and expensive.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Nope. I'm not missing it. I know it's there. But the idea and the belief comes before the work and sometimes it comes before the evidence.

Why would you put hard work into something that you don't believe was possible?

Sometimes, just to find out if it is. Some people are like that. But that's not really the point. Vanishingly few advancements jump past the evidence. Most big advancements are because someone finally figured out how to solve a problem that had been stumping others who'd also been trying to solve (like the Wright brothers recalculating lift).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Is that even a complete sentence in English?

Please, tell me, which cooperative larping fantasy touched you, and where.

It is a complete sentence - just missing a comma.

 

[dvcochran]

How do you think humans flew? Did they believe their way in to the sky

In a sense. Through trial and error, they believed certain methods after proof of concept. Take Daedalus for example.
While some were attempts to directly duplicate birds (gluing on feathers) others were very far removed from the flying wing of a bird (rotors, hot air balloons).

I get where you are going. You could argue SM was applied. I would argue a similar approach (in man's understanding) has been used in Christianity (I cannot speak for all religion) since the inception.

So go ahead and lay it on me.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Going back to where you used flight as an example of belief before evidence, I think you're limiting what would have been evidence prior to powered human flight.

I intentionally did this on purpose. Because when you speak of kites and human flight, you may have to introduce accidental discoveries. Things that are discovered to be true when evidence nor belief was needed.

For example, history doesn't show that kites were originally designed for human flight. The chances that discovering that a kite can lift a man in the air is something that a kite maker who was interested in seeing how big he can make a kite would have probably experienced. The bigger the kite the more likely this becomes a reality.

Eventually you'll have ask yourself. Was the kite originally designed for the intention of human flight. Or was it something that was discovered by accident when someone decided to make a big kite and fly it. You will also have to ask about the history of kites and how it came about. Was it something that was created by sailors? No one knows. Because of that lack of knowledge you'll end up with a bunch of people having theories and beliefs about how the first kite was created and how did it come about. So I picked a specific area about flying that would make it possible to research and actually find how it came about.

For marital artists we have the worst focus. The title of the thread is about Aikido and here we are talking about kites.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I don't have to be able to do something myself to have evidence it's possible I could.

Depends on where your knowledge exists. Are you creating something new that has never existed or are you seeing what others have already created and building off on that knowledge.