Aikido.. The reality?

[Steve]

Would you want him landing on you? I wouldn't....

Ha. Probably not, but to be serious for a moment, we're getting into something that I've been just hammered for in the past. Which is to take your train of thought just a little further to its logical conclusion.

If we're talking about activities that are tangentially helpful in a fight, then as you say, breakdancing could be a better martial art than some actual martial arts. We could also look at 'ninja warrior" training (aka, parkour, agility training), hell, I mean, gymnastics could be a better self defense system than some martial arts. I mean, with a little thought, I am pretty sure I could come up with several activities which would, if trained seriously, better prepare people for a fight than some martial arts styles.

Put gymnasts in a gi, call it gymkata... same stuff, but sexy dance fighting, and it's capoeria. Focus on the floor routine, and it's toad style kung fu or some such. Folks get understandably sensitive when you compare their martial arts style to break dancing, gymnastics, or parkour, but it's really all about the costume sometimes.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Umm... yes it does. That's the very definition of science.

Man believed humans could fly long before there was evidence of it. Belief before evidence.

Belief without evidence is religion.

Not true. What you believe has nothing to do with religion. Case in point. Use science to prove that your statement is true. Then tell me what religion your statement proves that you are in..

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I mean, the GOOP yoni egg is my go to. goop Wellness Jade Egg | Goop

Some folks really believe it's going to provide some medicinal benefit. GOOP got sued, and were required to stop making medical claims, but they do still sell it. And people do still believe it works.


Ladies and gentlemen, I submit to the group for your consideration toad style kung fu:

Edit: Does this count as fraud busting? I don't think we have any toad kung fu stylists on the board, so hopefully not. I am, in fact, hoping that toad style kung fu seems as ridiculous to everyone else as it does to me.

Where is the tongue lashing technique?

 

[Oily Dragon]

Ok. So imagine you see a small snippet of what Chuck Liddell does and then use that to rationalise what is the opposite of what actually works. And then I assume never ever test it against anyone good.

And incorporate that in to your training.

That would be a made up like astrology.

Astrology is a pseudoscience. Kung fu isn't a pseudoscience at all. I can't think of one Chinese style that is not, at its core, a taxing physical discipline (OK, Wing Chun is kind of easy).. If you want me to hook you up with a Taijiquan master who is stacked like Lou Ferrigno and measures his practice with a half a dozen medical instruments...I'm that dude. I live for it.

What Chuck is using is the same Gong Ji Bo/Ji Ng Ma found in like, two dozen Chinese styles, almost every Japanese style. Front toe, back heel, 70/30 split. Works every time. "Fake" according to people who have never been able to sit low in that stance for more than 60 seconds without crying from all the lactic acid. The enemy within. That's how Chuck Liddel came to tattoo 幸栄館 on his scalp.

It's been tested in a thousand matches, over and over again. Unless you believe Kung fu tournaments are make believe, which some do.

Granted, since we're talking Aikido, I know that the underlying philosophy is harder to grasp for some. It's not for me, I've lived through every martial pain, and I still dig Aikido for what it attempted (and failed) to do in Japan.

#sadface

 

[Oily Dragon]

Ha. Probably not, but to be serious for a moment, we're getting into something that I've been just hammered for in the past. Which is to take your train of thought just a little further to its logical conclusion.

If we're talking about activities that are tangentially helpful in a fight, then as you say, breakdancing could be a better martial art than some actual martial arts. We could also look at 'ninja warrior" training (aka, parkour, agility training), hell, I mean, gymnastics could be a better self defense system than some martial arts. I mean, with a little thought, I am pretty sure I could come up with several activities which would, if trained seriously, better prepare people for a fight than some martial arts styles.

Put gymnasts in a gi, call it gymkata... same stuff, but sexy dance fighting, and it's capoeria. Focus on the floor routine, and it's toad style kung fu or some such. Folks get understandably sensitive when you compare their martial arts style to break dancing, gymnastics, or parkour, but it's really all about the costume sometimes.

Well, you chose a famous and powerful style to make fun of. Could you move like that? It's an awful hubris to chitter away at real skill like that, especially when we were talking about "fake" things like astrology.

Not only is Toad style a legitimate Shaolin art (one of so many), you picked a video where a monk is literally doing standing jumps 4 feet in the air, and landing supine, over and over again. It's applicable to wrestling too, see that last video I posted.

Toad style is albeit a little narrowly focused. You won't find the usual choi style punches in Toad, but you will find (depending on the source):

Bone breaking kicks
leaping collisions
take-downs
throws
fast spear hand strikes
ripping, raking, stabbing grips with the hands.
reaps
sweeps that hook, pull, and capture.
swimming style blocks

Now THIS is what fake, movie-fu Toad looks like.

 

[JowGaWolf]

What do you mean by "those systems".

Chinese? Chinese systems have stood the test of thousands of years. If I named a hundred of them, which could you point to as "failed" in competition? One? Two? So name them.

Are there any other countries you mean? Or are you just after China.

ha ha ha ha. Warriors of Sugar you and I. but this is the first time I've seen this tone before lol Good thing I like CMA lol

 

[drop bear]

Astrology is a pseudoscience. Kung fu isn't a pseudoscience at all. I can't think of one Chinese style that is not, at its core, a taxing physical discipline (OK, Wing Chun is kind of easy).. If you want me to hook you up with a Taijiquan master who is stacked like Lou Ferrigno and measures his practice with a half a dozen medical instruments...I'm that dude. I live for it.

So if crystal healing used bigger rocks then it would be scientifically valid?

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

So if crystal healing used bigger rocks then it would be scientifically valid?

Uranium rocks, try that. Bigger the better. I hear they give off some vibrations that can rock your whole world. BELIEVE me. You can’t see it but I swear it’s real.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Man believed humans could fly long before there was evidence of it. Belief before evidence.


Not true. What you believe has nothing to do with religion. Case in point. Use science to prove that your statement is true. Then tell me what religion your statement proves that you are in..

I think the issue is you're using belief different than other people. I think a better word, depending on which specific "belief" you're discussing, is either hope, expectation, or ambition. Man had an ambition to be able to fly, so they set out to try and prove that they could. Belief (at least how it's commonly used), implies that you will take it as fact that x exists/is possible/is true, and when it's already fact in someone's mind, there's no real need to prove it.

Another example would be how maggots breed. Once upon a time, people thought they were born around garbage. If they believed that, in the common use of the word, they'd say okay, and that would be that. There'd be no reason to test something that you already believe to be true, because why waste the effort? But they expected that it's true, which leaves room for doubt. From there, they decided to test to see if they were correct or not, ran a test, and found out that no, they were not correct.

 

[drop bear]

Man believed humans could fly long before there was evidence of it. Belief before evidence.

How do you think humans flew? Did they believe their way in to the sky

 

[JowGaWolf]

Astrology has stood the test of a thousand years and it is straight up bunk.

Depends on what aspect you are looking at and in what context. The Mayans used it. Sailors used it to navigate. Cultures used it to forecast the beginning and end of seasons. They didn't care about the nature of the planets and stars themselves. They just cared about the relationship and effect that the stars and planets had on the planet, their villages, which ultimately affected their lives. Watching the moon would be an example but at a closer ranger that help people know when there would be a high tided and low tide. It's what we would do in the absence of technology. That is stuff is legit.

So I'm assuming that you are referring to the other department where it gets into horoscopes and fortune tellers who look at a calendar and not the actual stars.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Edit: Does this count as fraud busting? I don't think we have any toad kung fu stylists on the board, so hopefully not. I am, in fact, hoping that toad style kung fu seems as ridiculous to everyone else as it does to me.

Nah he's doing it wrong. That's why you don't understand it. This is the right way to do it.

 

[JowGaWolf]

How do you think humans flew? Did they believe their way in to the sky

Actually yes. Because for thousands of years there was no evidence or capability to fly. So it definitely wasn't evidence that man could fly that made them continue to try.

 

[JowGaWolf]

"Toad style is immensely strong...and immune to...."

Rule #1 of kung fu: if it takes practice to do, it's real.

I need to learn Toad style, it'd really step up my b-boy game, not to mention my wrestling prowess.

Makes sense now.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Astrology is a pseudoscience. Kung fu isn't a pseudoscience at all. I can't think of one Chinese style that is not, at its core, a taxing physical discipline (OK, Wing Chun is kind of easy).. If you want me to hook you up with a Taijiquan master who is stacked like Lou Ferrigno and measures his practice with a half a dozen medical instruments...I'm that dude. I live for it.

What Chuck is using is the same Gong Ji Bo/Ji Ng Ma found in like, two dozen Chinese styles, almost every Japanese style. Front toe, back heel, 70/30 split. Works every time. "Fake" according to people who have never been able to sit low in that stance for more than 60 seconds without crying from all the lactic acid. The enemy within. That's how Chuck Liddel came to tattoo 幸栄館 on his scalp.

It's been tested in a thousand matches, over and over again. Unless you believe Kung fu tournaments are make believe, which some do.

Granted, since we're talking Aikido, I know that the underlying philosophy is harder to grasp for some. It's not for me, I've lived through every martial pain, and I still dig Aikido for what it attempted (and failed) to do in Japan.

#sadface

Ive quite literally never heard anyone call that stance “fake”.

 

[Martial D]

I see now that you are not understanding my rudimentary use of language. You berated jow ga for his view point. You insulted all Chinese martial arts in a generalized and indefensible comment that shows how full of your own opinion you are. You refuse to acknowledge using the same type of argument that you referred to as unscientific and based on belief when it was used by others. You are attempting to bludgeon your way past having an erudite discussion in favor of displaying your intellect. I’m sorry sir, but you lost me when you lacked the ability to accept that you might be engaging in the very thing that apparently inflamed you in the first place. I take umbrage with your tone, your manner, and the lack of substance or fact in some of your statements. I could show you some proof of CMA working well in competition, but i doubt it would make a difference to your uninformed yet strong opinions. It’s clear you missed a very important part of CMA, it’s known as emptying your cup. Look it up, you may find it useful.

Wow. So sorry about your feelings, but your accusations are baseless and your ad hominem argument is dismissed. Try to focus on the topic.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Astrology is a pseudoscience.

Astrology has multiple perspectives. You have to be specific about which perspective you are talking about and not lump everything into Astrology.
For example:
Astrology is the name given to a series of diverse practices based in the idea that the stars, planets, and other celestial phenomena possess significance and meaning for events on Earth. - Source : Astrology in Ancient Greek and Roman Culture


Does the moon and the sun not possess significance and meaning for events on Earth? Today's calendars literally are examples of how a start, a planet, and a moon have significance and meaning for events on Earth. Seasons, Low tides, birthdays, eclipses, holidays, work days, deliveries and the sort all affected by celestial phenomena. Will crops grow without sun. Do some animals breed based on the position of the moon and how it affects the tides of the oceans?

Then you have that other type of Astrology that has more to do about fortune telling. Many of them probably couldn't look up in the sky and tell you if the tide would be high or low or when Salmon migrate. What they can tell you is if Jane should wear that read dress and hook up with Virgo. lol.

The biggest problem with Astrology is that too many people claim it, but not understand the original functions of it. Martial arts in general have that same issue.

 

[drop bear]

Actually yes. Because for thousands of years there was no evidence or capability to fly. So it definitely wasn't evidence that man could fly that made them continue to try.

So you don't think flight was an evidence based endever?

Sorry can you walk me through how you think flight happened? Without using the process of experimentation and evidence.

 

[drop bear]

Depends on what aspect you are looking at and in what context. The Mayans used it. Sailors used it to navigate. Cultures used it to forecast the beginning and end of seasons. They didn't care about the nature of the planets and stars themselves. They just cared about the relationship and effect that the stars and planets had on the planet, their villages, which ultimately affected their lives. Watching the moon would be an example but at a closer ranger that help people know when there would be a high tided and low tide. It's what we would do in the absence of technology. That is stuff is legit.

So I'm assuming that you are referring to the other department where it gets into horoscopes and fortune tellers who look at a calendar and not the actual stars.

Are you describing Astronomy?

 

[Martial D]

How can you compare hand to hand fighting styles with made up fantasy?

When the entirety of the training is cooperative larping fantasy is exactly what it is.