Aikido in the MMA ring?

[ballen0351]

Those vary from person to person regardless of MA of choice. Not everyone practicing Aikido has the same goals, mindset, or motivation for example.

Except the founders teaching of Aikido set the goals, mindset, and motivation. It draws a certain type of person for example when the founder says things like this it doesn't really lend itself to competition or fighting in MMA.
"Aikido is not an art to fight with enemies and defeat them. It is a way to lead all human beings to live in harmony with each other as though everyone were one family. The secret of aikido is to make yourself become one with the universe and to go along with its natural movements. One who has attained this secret holds the universe in him/herself and can say, "I am the universe.""

 

[ballen0351]

ADCC is the Abu Dhabi Combat Club Submission Wrestling World Championship, funded by the Sheikh of UAE, it's a grappling tournament open to any style and has seen Wrestlers, BJJ, Judoka, Sambo, Shoot wrestlers, and various hybrids all compete. Its one of the crown jewels, if not THE crown jewel of competitive grappling.

ADCC Submission Wrestling World Championship - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

AHH ok I don't play grappling games so I've never heard of it

 

[Drew Ahn-Kim]

"I'm not in this world to live up to your expectations and you're not in this world to live up to mine."
Bruce Lee

Hanzou, I don't necessarily disagree with you, however I recognize that my mindset towards martial arts and combat are not universal. I was raised in the shadow of a legendary grandfather, and competition was intrinsically linked to my relationship with Taekwondo and later Boxing, Judo, Karate, Muay Thai and BJJ. This has been my path and its been what's best for me, but I would never attempt to suggest its the best for everyone. Martial Arts and its various disciplines have so many different facets, and people have different motivations for taking part in them. Ultimately I believe the most important thing in martial arts is the growth and evolution which they provide you as a human being, and that can take many forms.

There are plenty of students out there looking to learn about the most effective forms of MMA-relevant techniques, let them come to you and teach them what you know.

To Jenna (my sister's name by way), just focus on your own reasons for practicing Aikido, what your goals are, what you hope to achieve, and as long as its fufilling these aspects then you're five by five.

Happy New Year, and love to you all. Let's keep growing and building.

 

[RTKDCMB]

well his explanation of wrist locks shows a lack of knowledge on the topic

His claim that it is impossible to catch a punch doesn't lend him any more credibility either.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Nope he knows nothing about Aikido to pass judgment

It's a common misconception that being an expert in one discipline qualifies someone to pass judgment on another.

 

[Drew Ahn-Kim]

Sorry to go to the Ryan Hall well again, but I think this speaks to several aspects of this conversation, as he discusses the idea of having a singular or perfect approach to grappling.

 

[ballen0351]

His claim that it is impossible to catch a punch doesn't lend him any more credibility either.

True that's a better example to use

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I am undone by my lack of ability under my opponents guard or mount or inferior in strength and take a beating and am damaged sufficiently that I need to learn some lessons, yes? I am not certain exactly what lesson it is I have been taught or what action I ought to take??

I do not understand wtf they are doing there or trying to prove and what is the lesson to be taken from their actual asskicking or from my imagined one??

Hi Jenna!

I'm going to assume that Steve's reading is correct and your question is not anything to do with how Aikido might or might not work for you in an MMA fight, but rather what useful lessons you as an Aikido practitioner might learn from participating in (and losing) an MMA fight. If I'm incorrect in this, please let me know.

The answer to this really depends on your goals in your Aikido practice and what specific questions you might want to test in your MMA experiment.

If you are practicing Aikido as a vehicle for learning to live in harmony with others, then I don't think your MMA experience would hold any useful lessons.

If you are practicing Aikido for the sake of learning a traditional Japanese cultural art, then I don't think your MMA experience would hold any useful lessons.

If you are practicing Aikido because you think it will make you a bad-*** fighter who can defeat other trained fighters in a challenge match, then your defeat in MMA will teach you that either a) you need to train more, b) Aikido is not an effective art for this purpose, or c) you have certain specific techniques or tactics or attributes that you need to adjust or improve.

If you are practicing Aikido for its combative applications in self-defense, then you may or may not have any useful lessons to learn from an MMA fight. Speaking as a non-Aikidoka who likes to watch the art, I can see legitimate self-defense combative applications for the art, but I don't think they're really suited for squaring up in a challenge match against a trained opponent. If you agree with that assessment, then you might not have any useful lessons to learn from an MMA fight. On the other hand, if you think that your Aikido has applications which should be useful against common MMA attacks such as a trained jab, cross, clinch, takedown, etc, then you would have the opportunity to try those out. If they failed, you would know that either your techniques weren't appropriate for that context or else you were missing something in your ability to apply them.

 

[drop bear]

Well according to you the topic is if there is an expert in Aikido in MMA not if Aikido would work in MMA

Bas rutten is the best expert we have so far.

I mean at this stage i could suggest that playing the trombone will work in mma.

I

 

[drop bear]

His claim that it is impossible to catch a punch doesn't lend him any more credibility either.

It is pretty near impossible to catch a punch.

That is not the training. You just cant do it with any reliability.

 

[RTKDCMB]

It is pretty near impossible to catch a punch.

That is not the training. You just cant do it with any reliability.

If you don't routinely practice blocking skills then it would be pretty near impossible. For those of us that do it's not that hard.

 

[ballen0351]

It is pretty near impossible to catch a punch.

That is not the training. You just cant do it with any reliability.

Its also not Aikido you dont catch punches At least not like he was suggesting

 

[ballen0351]

Bas rutten is the best expert we have so far.

I mean at this stage i could suggest that playing the trombone will work in mma.

I

trombones are against the rules so no

 

[Hanzou]

Except the founders teaching of Aikido set the goals, mindset, and motivation. It draws a certain type of person for example when the founder says things like this it doesn't really lend itself to competition or fighting in MMA.
"Aikido is not an art to fight with enemies and defeat them. It is a way to lead all human beings to live in harmony with each other as though everyone were one family. The secret of aikido is to make yourself become one with the universe and to go along with its natural movements. One who has attained this secret holds the universe in him/herself and can say, "I am the universe.""

Then please explain Steven Seagal. That's an example of an Aikidoka who is all about fighting, except that he'll never put himself in the position to fight anyone.

Additionally, there ARE competitive versions of Aikido. Tomiki and Shodokan Aikido for example.

So again, that mindset varies from person to person, not style to style.

 

[ballen0351]

Then please explain Steven Seagal. That's an example of an Aikidoka who is all about fighting, except that he'll never put himself in the position to fight anyone.

so he's a fighter that doesn't fight so then no he's not a fighter.

Additionally, there ARE competitive versions of Aikido. Tomiki and Shodokan Aikido for example.

So again, that mindset varies from person to person, not style to style.

No your still wrong but thanks for playing.

 

[Hanzou]

so he's a fighter that doesn't fight so then no he's not a fighter.

No, he's a guy that frequently challenges people, beats women, has an ego the size of Texas, and bullies people smaller than himself. Yet he's also a respected Aikido practitioner and teacher.

In fact, I would argue that Seagal was a big part of the rise in Aikido's popularity. Why? Because his films showed him destroying people with Aikido, and he had an air of arrogance/confidence on and off the screen.

I don't think Ueshiba would be too thrilled about Seagal as a prominent representative of his art.

As for being wrong about competitive or sport Aikido:

Shodokan Aikido - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Jenna]

Thank you each and every for your comments, it is helpful to read various opinions I am grateful and glad conversation can happen on its own.. hope I do not spoil it by interjecting.. x

@Hanzou, you said “If we are to believe that Aikido is a martial art that can be used in a fight, why couldn't it be useful for MMA purposes? MMA bouts are nothing more than sanctioned fights after all”, yes this is a point I had wondered.. I watch the videos and see debate on other places and you can correct me here.. there seem to be an underlying implication that from my envisaged defeat in a MMA bout, that it is just another nail in Aikido coffin and Aikido in its purpose as a defensive fighting art is almost entirely invalidated, does this make sense what I am saying, and is this the appropriate conclusion??

~~~

@Tony Dismukes, @Steve, yes thank you both also for understanding me what I am asking and for your respective inputs which have now got me questioning my self more than I started haha.. TO draw on both of your points, can I pick up on this maybe..

If you are practicing Aikido for its combative applications in self-defense, then you may or may not have any useful lessons to learn from an MMA fight. Speaking as a non-Aikidoka who likes to watch the art, I can see legitimate self-defense combative applications for the art, but I don't think they're really suited for squaring up in a challenge match against a trained opponent. If you agree with that assessment, then you might not have any useful lessons to learn from an MMA fight. On the other hand, if you think that your Aikido has applications which should be useful against common MMA attacks such as a trained jab, cross, clinch, takedown, etc, then you would have the opportunity to try those out. If they failed, you would know that either your techniques weren't appropriate for that context or else you were missing something in your ability to apply them.

Yes I concede this for me at least that I would likely fare poorly in a ring against a trained mixed discipline opponent, then again I am not ever going in that ring so that is not a concern, the concern is can a similar situation ever exist in reality? I do not mean like a statistical possibility rather an actual likelihood? I mean I used my training only rarely in the absolute last resort where I have on more than plenty occasion reasoned, smarmed, charmed or cajoled my way through a threat or not been there for the perceived threat to happen.. like these are the realities for me, any way, fighting would not do in most situations I am in and but that is besides that point.. I mean I have never had to deal with any one proficient in MMA, or any other art in the course of my duties or responsibilities..

Like you know it is not yet proven at all to me –quite opposite- that I am deficient in matters of my own defence using my own wares, common sense, available tools, the help of others, and my Aikido as a failsafe, yet that very deficiency is the clear implication is it not of such an envisaged defeat in a MMA bout?? I am speaking through limited experience.. only having sparred ever against mixed discipline fighters for kicks and laughs and not for serious.. Do you follow what I am saying? I cannot match these two things up.. have I just been lucky not to have encountered the wrong person?? Thank you all so much Jxxx

~~~Oh I always liked Bas Rutten and but the whole Rutten / Steven Seagal mouthoff I recall from days of old I wonder does this perhaps render Bas' viewpoint more partisan than proven? x

 

[ballen0351]

No, he's a guy that frequently challenges people, beats women, has an ego the size of Texas, and bullies people smaller than himself. Yet he's also a respected Aikido practitioner and teacher.

In fact, I would argue that Seagal was a big part of the rise in Aikido's popularity. Why? Because his films showed him destroying people with Aikido, and he had an air of arrogance/confidence on and off the screen.

I don't think Ueshiba would be too thrilled about Seagal as a prominent representative of his art.

As for being wrong about competitive or sport Aikido:

Shodokan Aikido - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Steven wasn't that bad in real life I met him at a SWAT conference. But I don't disagree with most of,what you said. As for Shodokan Aikdio it's not the Founders Aikido. It is a system based off Aikido but still different.

 

[Hanzou]

@Hanzou, you said “If we are to believe that Aikido is a martial art that can be used in a fight, why couldn't it be useful for MMA purposes? MMA bouts are nothing more than sanctioned fights after all”, yes this is a point I had wondered.. I watch the videos and see debate on other places and you can correct me here.. there seem to be an underlying implication that from my envisaged defeat in a MMA bout, that it is just another nail in Aikido coffin and Aikido in its purpose as a defensive fighting art is almost entirely invalidated, does this make sense what I am saying, and is this the appropriate conclusion??

This is merely my opinion, but I place Aikido (as a whole) in the same group as Tai Chi, Yoga, and similar pursuits. I don't view it as a fighting art, but more as a spiritual pursuit. You see this within Aikido itself where many of the art's pioneers complain about how much the art has softened over the years, and how the Aikido you see today is nothing like the older version of the art, which was supposedly much harder.

You take Aikido to cultivate your spirit, learn some Japanese culture, and improve your attitude. You don't learn Aikido to learn how to stop kicks and punches from hitting you in the face.

Aikido certainly has some self defense attributes, but every physical activity has some self defense attributes.

Oh I always liked Bas Rutten and but the whole Rutten / Steven Seagal mouthoff I recall from days of old I wonder does this perhaps render Bas' viewpoint more partisan than proven? x

Seagal is a notorious trash talker, especially in Hollywood where he has a reputation as a weirdo and a bully. Bas isn't the only prominent MMA personality he's rubbed the wrong way. Especially after he popped up in Anderson Silva's corner dressed like a giant penguin and started talking about how awesome he was in MMA.

 

[Hanzou]

Steven wasn't that bad in real life I met him at a SWAT conference. But I don't disagree with most of,what you said. As for Shodokan Aikdio it's not the Founders Aikido. It is a system based off Aikido but still different.

LoL! So are you saying that Shodokan Aikido isn't "real" Aikido?