Aikido and Law Enforcement

[Tez3]

I am pretty sure this thread is about grabbing people. If you want to do a thread about not grabbing people. You are welcome to do so.

Otherwise I have asked for specific differences in police use of force and what I would use and did not receive an anser. So I will just assume their isn't one.

Really? I gave you an answer we don't 'grab' at people and Ballen has reiterated exactly what I said before about spray, baton etc.

 

[drop bear]

Really? I gave you an answer we don't 'grab' at people and Ballen has reiterated exactly what I said before about spray, baton etc.

What do you mean you don't grab at people. Are you saying you don't make physical arrests?

I have used baton handcuffs on the job as well. And I still grabbed at people.

So say to walk it through you are arresting someone and he said no I don't want to be arrested and if you try I will fight you.

What are your actions from there?

Say you are dealing with this guy.

 

[ballen0351]

A year of bjj, that's really cool. I hope you found a good school and are enjoying yourself. But, do you really think that you're learning very little that will be useful to you in your job? How often are you able to train?

I didnt say only a year I said a year exclusively a year. I train 2 to 3 days a week and I never said it wasnt useful I said it not the best choice. 1st we a limited by G.O. that I cant use any chokes, so it narrows down my options 2nd pulling off some techniques in a full uniform, duty belt, and vest can be complicated. 3rd going to the ground on purpose in some neighborhoods is not a good idea for my health. Any traing is better then no training but if I were to suggest to someone what stye to train in for police work choice #1 is cross train but if I could only pick 1 style Judo would be #1 in my opinion. Stand up art like Okinawian Karate #2

 

[ballen0351]

So say to walk it through you are arresting someone and he said no I don't want to be arrested and if you try I will fight you.

I ask 1st
I order 2nd
You want to fight I taze you 3rd

Say you are dealing with this guy.

He was passivly resisting they handled it just fine.

 

[drop bear]

I ask 1st
I order 2nd
You want to fight I taze you 3rd



He was passivly resisting they handled it just fine.

I think they handled it fine as well. But they also grabbed the guy. Which according to tez cops don't do or something.

Otherwise I still think hands on control is a vital skill. And again if you control the clinch You can even get to a weapon more easily.

 

[drop bear]

I didnt say only a year I said a year exclusively a year. I train 2 to 3 days a week and I never said it wasnt useful I said it not the best choice. 1st we a limited by G.O. that I cant use any chokes, so it narrows down my options 2nd pulling off some techniques in a full uniform, duty belt, and vest can be complicated. 3rd going to the ground on purpose in some neighborhoods is not a good idea for my health. Any traing is better then no training but if I were to suggest to someone what stye to train in for police work choice #1 is cross train but if I could only pick 1 style Judo would be #1 in my opinion. Stand up art like Okinawian Karate #2

Judo over wrestling?

Or just generic stand up grapple arts over ground ones?

 

[ballen0351]

I think they handled it fine as well. But they also grabbed the guy. Which according to tez cops don't do or something.

Otherwise I still think hands on control is a vital skill. And again if you control the clinch You can even get to a weapon more easily.

That wasnt a clinch and they were not "grabbing" him they were guiding him into the car. Grabbing in terms of use of force and police work means something far more agressive

 

[ballen0351]

Judo over wrestling?

Or just generic stand up grapple arts over ground ones?

Yes I dont want to wrestle with anyone. plus there are not alot of adult wrestling schools around here

 

[oftheherd1]

Complimentary is the key. You can't catch punches out of mid air and an arm won't isolate itself so you need a method to do this before you can really apply akido. I like clinch work and arm drags. Which give me time to get the wrist or amlock on.

You have stated that twice now. Have you ever seen a technique where you would move into a strike, blocking the arm, then grabbing the wrist, fist, or both?

I guess your art doesn't train that. Of course that doesn't mean your art is no good. I would guess it means your art emphasizes different techniques. Perhaps instead of moving toward a strike to begin your defense you step back and kick. Whatever doesn't matter. Different MA emphasize different techniques. If all techniques were in all arts there would only be one. Maybe that would be easier; we would only have to argue whose daddy could beat up somebody else's dad. But I wonder how many years it would take to advance past white belt?

What do you mean you don't grab at people. Are you saying you don't make physical arrests?

I have used baton handcuffs on the job as well. And I still grabbed at people.

So say to walk it through you are arresting someone and he said no I don't want to be arrested and if you try I will fight you.

What are your actions from there?

Say you are dealing with this guy.

...

I'm having difficulty figuring out which side of the argument you want to be on. I think the best thing I can do is direct you back to ballen0351's answer to your question. I agree with him.

 

[drop bear]

You have stated that twice now. Have you ever seen a technique where you would move into a strike, blocking the arm, then grabbing the wrist, fist, or both?

I guess your art doesn't train that. Of course that doesn't mean your art is no good. I would guess it means your art emphasizes different techniques. Perhaps instead of moving toward a strike to begin your defense you step back and kick. Whatever doesn't matter. Different MA emphasize different techniques. If all techniques were in all arts there would only be one. Maybe that would be easier; we would only have to argue whose daddy could beat up somebody else's dad. But I wonder how many years it would take to advance past white belt?

I have trained in arts that that block parry lock. Spent years training it.

I just don't rate your chances of blocking catching and doing anything to an arm before the other arm cracks you. And I am sorry about that because I would love that stuff to work.

 

[drop bear]

I'm having difficulty figuring out which side of the argument you want to be on. I think the best thing I can do is direct you back to ballen0351's answer to your question. I agree with him.

I am not on a side.

Why are there even sides? That is just dumb

 

[ballen0351]

I have trained in arts that that block parry lock. Spent years training it.

I just don't rate your chances of blocking catching and doing anything to an arm before the other arm cracks you. And I am sorry about that because I would love that stuff to work.

If you train at it then its one fluid seamless movement its not block, stop, catch, stop, do something

 

[drop bear]

That wasnt a clinch and they were not "grabbing" him they were guiding him into the car. Grabbing in terms of use of force and police work means something far more agressive

Lol. OK then I am guiding people. Guide them into the ground. Guide them out of the pub.

 

[drop bear]

If you train at it then its one fluid seamless movement its not block, stop, catch, stop, do something

punching is one fluid movement as well. That arm is gone by the time you can capitalise on it.

Then all you have done is give the other guy a free go in the hopes you might get that arm next time.

 

[ballen0351]

punching is one fluid movement as well. That arm is gone by the time you can capitalise on it.

Then all you have done is give the other guy a free go in the hopes you might get that arm next time.

We will just have to disagree I've seen it done had it done to me

 

[Spinedoc]

I have trained in arts that that block parry lock. Spent years training it.

I just don't rate your chances of blocking catching and doing anything to an arm before the other arm cracks you. And I am sorry about that because I would love that stuff to work.

Who said anything about grabbing it? The first tenet in Aikido is to blend and get into a safe position.... Tai Sabaki... Many, if not most of our techniques involve no grabbing at all. They only require contact, not grabbing. At higher levels, we practice them without grabbing at all, even the attacker (uke)......just making contact. Moving someone with energy only, no grab!

 

[drop bear]

Who said anything about grabbing it? The first tenet in Aikido is to blend and get into a safe position.... Tai Sabaki... Many, if not most of our techniques involve no grabbing at all. They only require contact, not grabbing. At higher levels, we practice them without grabbing at all, even the attacker (uke)......just making contact. Moving someone with energy only, no grab!

Well apparently guiding is the new grabbing now.

The idea is to be able to pull off a standing arm restraint basically. And that is a tough prospect.

 

[Steve]

I didnt say only a year I said a year exclusively a year. I train 2 to 3 days a week and I never said it wasnt useful I said it not the best choice. 1st we a limited by G.O. that I cant use any chokes, so it narrows down my options 2nd pulling off some techniques in a full uniform, duty belt, and vest can be complicated. 3rd going to the ground on purpose in some neighborhoods is not a good idea for my health. Any traing is better then no training but if I were to suggest to someone what stye to train in for police work choice #1 is cross train but if I could only pick 1 style Judo would be #1 in my opinion. Stand up art like Okinawian Karate #2

well, I'm glad you've joined the dark side. I hope you stick with it.

I would love to train some judo, and have seriously considered finding A good school somewhere around here. I can easily see how the emphasis on throws and grip fighting would be helpful.

 

[ballen0351]

well, I'm glad you've joined the dark side. I hope you stick with it.

I would love to train some judo, and have seriously considered finding A good school somewhere around here. I can easily see how the emphasis on throws and grip fighting would be helpful.

I like BJJ I just hate the BJJ attitude of "nothing else works"
When I was training Judo Some high anking Gracie Blackbelt from the midwest he owned like 4 or 5 schools in like Missouri or Nebraska (I feel bad I can't remember his name) moved out here to train with my Judo teacher for 3 months he trained daily with him. He said takedowns are severely lacking in BJJ.

 

[ballen0351]

Well apparently guiding is the new grabbing now.
.

Its not the new anything its just different