dvcochran
Grandmaster
I forget, what post number did I say that in regards to?
acidemic testing vs martial school testing
- Thread starter tshadowchaser
- Start date
Post #59
I am going to refresh this thread by reposting much of what I said in post #47.
In post #47 I mentioned how it was it was pointed out, on this forum, that a main difference between an A and a belt in the martial arts such as black belt, aside from the A being applied to academics and the black belt being used martial arts, is that an A is a one time performance, its a mark of performance on a test a student takes. Lets say a student takes a math test and gets an A, that A is just for that one test and so it only measures the student's performance in that one test. A belt of rank such as a black belt, on the other hand, is a result of accumulated knowledge and skill over years of hard training, it is not based on a student's performance in one test the way an A is.
Therefore comparing a belt to a grade a student gets on one test is probably not the best comparison and a better comparison would be to compare a belt to the grade a student gets for an entire class. In academic school, at the end of the year you get a grade for each class based on your average performance in the class. All the tests and grades you got are averaged out for your overall grade. So instead of comparing a belt to an A that a student gets on a math test it would be better to compare it to the grade the student gets in his math class at the end of the year. A student who gets an A in a math class as an end of the year grade that measures their overall performance in the class would work better as an academic equivalent to a black belt than an A in just one test. So that's how they're similar.
In post #47 I mentioned how it was it was pointed out, on this forum, that a main difference between an A and a belt in the martial arts such as black belt, aside from the A being applied to academics and the black belt being used martial arts, is that an A is a one time performance, its a mark of performance on a test a student takes. Lets say a student takes a math test and gets an A, that A is just for that one test and so it only measures the student's performance in that one test. A belt of rank such as a black belt, on the other hand, is a result of accumulated knowledge and skill over years of hard training, it is not based on a student's performance in one test the way an A is.
Therefore comparing a belt to a grade a student gets on one test is probably not the best comparison and a better comparison would be to compare a belt to the grade a student gets for an entire class. In academic school, at the end of the year you get a grade for each class based on your average performance in the class. All the tests and grades you got are averaged out for your overall grade. So instead of comparing a belt to an A that a student gets on a math test it would be better to compare it to the grade the student gets in his math class at the end of the year. A student who gets an A in a math class as an end of the year grade that measures their overall performance in the class would work better as an academic equivalent to a black belt than an A in just one test. So that's how they're similar.
Bujingodai
Black Belt
I find it ironic that a thread about academic was spelled wrong in the title.
Not intending on reading any of it.
Not intending on reading any of it.
Haruhiko
Purple Belt
So this has been covered pretty extensively in educational research literature. There are three main types of assessment:
Assessment of learning, assessment for learning, and assessment as learning.
There are also case-by-case approaches depending on the student.
I've noticed in TMA, most of the assessment is either FOR or AS learning; assessment for informing the teacher and student of the progress, and assessment as learning occurs, like corrections during a class, respectively. I believe this has naturally been the case because TMAs are usually appreciated as lifelong endeavours, where assessment OF learning primarily happens by the student in times of reflection.
Because martial arts aren't exactly as standardised as national academic departments or institutions, and for good reason, assessments are much harder to quantify. But good teachers follow one of the three regardless. To what extent, how and appropriately, is another discussion entirely.
What is the distinction between “for learning” and “as learning”?
Haruhiko
Purple Belt
"For learning" (formative assessment) uses evidence from what students know to inform teaching.
"As learning" is usually student-driven, with peer reviews, self reflections, and lessons designed to allow the students insight into their own thinking.
I think I grok that. I'll need to chew on it a bit to put it into context for my brain.
Im not particularly looking for responses from the OP, Im just looking for feedback from people in general, doesn't matter whether they're the OP or not.
So now that the thread has been reopened and people have responded to it, I have this to say regarding academic grades and belts and rank in the martial arts.
Its been said on this forum that some people who take of the martial arts don't care what belt or rank they've got, they just want to go to the dojo because they want to learn the martial art that's taught at the dojo but they don't care about belts or rank. I can see where they're coming from but I would like to apply that same point of view to academic schooling.
Let's say there's somebody in school who doesn't care about what grades they get. They don't care about getting As or whatever, they just want to be in school because they want to learn math and English and all the stuff that's taught in school but they don't care what grades they get. Would that be any different than the student in the martial arts who doesn't care what belt or rank they've got? Is it OK to apply such an attitude to the martial arts but not to academic schooling or vice versa? Why or why not?
Its been said on this forum that some people who take of the martial arts don't care what belt or rank they've got, they just want to go to the dojo because they want to learn the martial art that's taught at the dojo but they don't care about belts or rank. I can see where they're coming from but I would like to apply that same point of view to academic schooling.
Let's say there's somebody in school who doesn't care about what grades they get. They don't care about getting As or whatever, they just want to be in school because they want to learn math and English and all the stuff that's taught in school but they don't care what grades they get. Would that be any different than the student in the martial arts who doesn't care what belt or rank they've got? Is it OK to apply such an attitude to the martial arts but not to academic schooling or vice versa? Why or why not?
I had that same attitude in school; at least in high school. I actively wanted to learn, but didn't actually care what grades I got. My teachers loved me for my attitude.
In college it was different, but that's specifically because the gpa that I got would impact me getting into a masters program and that would impact the job that I eventually got.
Now I audit classes, or do self-study online. Since there's no impact on my livelihood, I can do that without worrying about grades or diploma, instead just making sure I get the knowledge/skills I'm there to get.
If a student isn’t getting at least decent grades in school, they are not learning. Unless there’s a learning disability which is a different matter.
Attaching that to students/Martial Arts in my dojos, it’s why students had to bring their report cards to me before returning them to their school. At least through being a senior in high school.
Parents, by the way, loved it. And knew the dojo’s policy going into it.
So what you're saying is that a student's grades are an indication of how well and how much they've learned the material.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
You really didn't need to respond to my post, it was a general statement to anyone who posts..... but, sadly, you will not be hearing from the OP...
