A teenager walks in to your school...

[grydth]

In the neighborhood my school is located, we have lots of criminal and gang activity. More often then not, if someone walks in looking for a fight, its a good bet that they belong to some sort of gang. I'm not going to take the chance of letting gang members hone or test their fighting skills at my school.

Imagine what would happen if word got around that I accepted challenges in that kind of environment?

It's not worth the risk. It goes against the philosophy that I teach. It sets a bad precedent.

If challenge matches are part of what you do, thats fine. It just can't work for me.

Genuine kudos to you for taking this position. I wonder how many of the pseudo Sokes who have darkened these cyber shores would take the business.... maybe pump up their 'street creds' a little, who cares about the resulting increased mayhem in the neighborhood?

When dojos stop teaching "the philosophy", they degenerate into simple training grounds for better bullies and more capable thugs.

And if just a few of your younger guys see this stance, and realize you don't have to take every challenge, one corner of our country will be a little better.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Challenges? and Revenge? "usuallly go hand in hand". Once you let them know you are willing to fight? You will get others looking to challenge you." Best is to say NO, and ask them to go elsewhere....


Challenges today is a childish thing....some people never grows up! Like an old western gun fight? Quick draw.

Remember any challenge (between black belts) will always be to the death....because both of you know how to kill...and you do not know what the other guy is going to do to you! He may even take out your eyes? or break your neck?

There is very little rules in a challenge (if you make rules? how will you know this stranger will keep them if he is losing?)

Best is to walk away! ............Aloha

 

[Cirdan]

At our Wado club he would be told that we don`t do that kind of thing and politely asked to leave. We would also have a little laugh at his expense, just as with the other kid who wanted to join the "secret underground karate championship" :lol:

At the Ju Jutsu club the reply would be more like "You are free to join the class and we always do some randori towards the end. It is none too serious tho so leave your ego outside."

 

[morph4me]

I would just tell him "You win" and get on with the class. I don't feel the need to prove myself or to be used as a tool so others can prove themselves, so if he needs to test himself I'll give him the satisfaction of surrendering, he can claim he beat me, or that I was afraid to fight him, or whatever else he wants, I'm OK with it.

 

[tshadowchaser]

As has been discussed in a different thread many things in the world of Martial Arts have changed in the last 30 years.
When I was younger and less gray my instructor had more than a few challengers walk into his school. They where met with respect and we let them try to prove themselves on the floor. i fought many of these challengers and so did a few others as well as my instructor. My instructor also put me in a few situations where I fought because he wanted to see if another instructor was truly what he claimed to be. BUT that was then and this is now and such practices are now frowned upon by most.
I do recall one young man who came in to prove his worth and was defeated , a year later he came back and tried again. This went on for 4 years with a different student defeating the young man but not seriously hurting him. After the 4th time my instructor told the man that if he came back again he would have to pay $100 to step out on the floor because my instructor was tired of giving him free lessons each year.
In today’s world with all the laws protecting youth and everyone being sue happy it is almost foolish for a person to accept a challenge. Still little things like challenges keep us on our toes both mentally and physically and we must ever be aware that such things happen.

Now for those that have read this thread I am going to take it off track a little.
The young man asked if he could teach the class and show them what he had learned. ( He has no idea what i teach or what I have taught)
Would you let this young man walk to the head of your class and demonstrate his knowledge. If so what would you do after he demonstrated??? I ask this in all seriousness.

 

[Adept]

The teen talks to you clearly, calmly, and quietly. He doesn't raise his voice, and speaks very confidently and in a matter-of-fact fashion.

What do you do from there?

Lay out mutually agreeable rules, find a ring and appropriate safety gear, and have at it.

Obviously extenuating circumstances, such as upnorthkyosa's situation, will affect whether or not you agree.

But a challenge match doesn't have to be about ego, or one-up-manship. And fights can (and usually are) be conducted safely and with a minimum of fuss. If the kid wants to fight, and you believe everyone involved will be as safe as possible, then why not?

 

[jks9199]

Now for those that have read this thread I am going to take it off track a little.
The young man asked if he could teach the class and show them what he had learned. ( He has no idea what i teach or what I have taught)
Would you let this young man walk to the head of your class and demonstrate his knowledge. If so what would you do after he demonstrated??? I ask this in all seriousness.

No. If I know the person or their background, and believe that what they can demonstrate might be of use or interest to my students, I'm happy to have guest instructors or demonstrators. But some guy walking off the street? Nope. I'll be happy to talk with him, maybe work a little privately to see if what he has to share would be valuable... but that's it.

 

[morph4me]

No. If I know the person or their background, and believe that what they can demonstrate might be of use or interest to my students, I'm happy to have guest instructors or demonstrators. But some guy walking off the street? Nope. I'll be happy to talk with him, maybe work a little privately to see if what he has to share would be valuable... but that's it.

Agreed, why waste everybody time. Unless I know that he has something of value to offer I wouldn't let hime teach my students.

 

[Grenadier]

If someone comes into the dojo, and starts issuing challenges, I'll simply state, that if he wants to fight our people, then he has to join the dojo, and work his way up the ranks to the point where we allow for free sparring.

If he's willing to go through all of that, then I'll certainly welcome him into the dojo, as long as he behaves well, since he would be like any other member.

Otherwise, if he insists on fighting right here, right now, I'll tell him that's not the way we do things, and ask him to leave. If he doesn't leave, I'll call the police.

Maybe challenges were more acceptable in the days of John Timothy Keehan, but that's not the way we do things in this day and age, and if he wants to fight with other people, then he's certainly free to enter various sanctioned full contact competitions.

If anything, if he really wants to throw down with a group of full contact fighters, I would encourage him to enroll in Oyama Shihan's school (Kyokushin Kai), where he would get what he wants. I have full faith in Oyama's people, that they would politely give him what he was seeking, and that they would do so in an honorable manner.

One way or the other, I would find out which school he was training at (shouldn't be too difficult in my area, since I can probably pinpoint the style to a specific school around here), and contact his sensei / sahbum / sifu.

 

[bmcgonag]

If I practice fighting so that I do not have to fight, then to accept this challenge would defeat my whole purpose. If he is only asking, and not demanding then I would have to say no thank you, offer to let him sign the waivers, and stay for practice as long as he maintains a proper attitude.

If he is demanding, then it is not really a challenge, and now I defend myself. In most cases I would say walk away, or run if need be, but if it is your dojang, then you may have to take the approach of calling police or having someone else call while you keep him occupied.

Just because it is a place of learning to fight does not mean that assault charges cannot be pressed, especially by a non-student.

Good thinker, hard to know until you face it for real though.

Best,

Brian

 

[CuongNhuka]

Yep lol! Worse..my other half is an ex Rock! But I have a fondness for Bootnecks :boing2:

Would you mind explaining what these terms are to those of us who aren't part of what ever group this is from?

 

[grydth]

Now for those that have read this thread I am going to take it off track a little.
The young man asked if he could teach the class and show them what he had learned. ( He has no idea what i teach or what I have taught)
Would you let this young man walk to the head of your class and demonstrate his knowledge. If so what would you do after he demonstrated??? I ask this in all seriousness.

Those of you who have your own dojos have complete control over who teaches...so I can't imagine any of you turning over a class to a stranger who you've never seen perform. That's because anyone standing up there has your seal of approval - and you could suffer if the man is a fake, a nut, an imposter or 'heretic'.

If a traveller appeared to offer worthwhile skills, I'd guess most would opt for a private screening of sorts, instructors only. If the guy was for real, you could arrange a seminar or something more lasting.

 

[Tez3]

Would you mind explaining what these terms are to those of us who aren't part of what ever group this is from?

Sorry we were being rude! Crab is a dreadful insult used by the army about us very nice RAF people lol! A rock is a rockape otherwise someone who is a member of the RAF Regiment. A Bootneck is a member of the finest fighting force in the world, they ride to battle tied to apache helicopters.True. The Royal Marine Commandos!


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6269613.stm


Back to the thread.
Absolutely yes we'd let him take over the class! We have a Forces sense of humour I'm afraid and while it wouldn't be very noble of us it would however be very funny! Can you imagine someone coming in and taking over a fight team's training lol!

We do train to fight, our self defence classes are different, I'm afraid if someone came into one of them he'd end up as Uke lol!

 

[CuongNhuka]

Sorry we were being rude! Crab is a dreadful insult used by the army about us very nice RAF people lol! A rock is a rockape otherwise someone who is a member of the RAF Regiment. A Bootneck is a member of the finest fighting force in the world, they ride to battle tied to apache helicopters.True. The Royal Marine Commandos!

Crab = RAF? Explain this logic to me. RAF stands for "Royal Air Force", right? How are you a crab?

 

[Andy Moynihan]

"Bootneck" I'm gonna take a Scientific Wild Ass Guess and say it might refer to a leather collar on , or having historically once been on their uniform as in the case of our US Marines whose nickname of "Leatherneck" referred to the stiff leather collar on their uniforms from 1775 to 1875 which served not only to enforce correct posture but offered a small amount of protection to the neck from bladed weapons in a time when ship-to-ship combat and the tactic of boarding parties was still a common practice in warfare.

My guess is Americans having borrowed or adapted many British military customs may be similar to the Royal Marines in this regard.


Then again I could be way off base.

Tez will tell us, Tez knows everything

 

[Drac]

Way back when I first started hanging around dojo, dojangs, etc...etc..If you were stupid enough to walk into a strange school and challenge the teacher, Sensei, Sifu, Sabum etc..etc.. you got WHATEVER he or she decide to give you..Like I said that was WAY "back in the day" when people didn't haul you into court because you looked them crosseyed...

 

[Gordon Nore]

Now for those that have read this thread I am going to take it off track a little.
The young man asked if he could teach the class and show them what he had learned. ( He has no idea what i teach or what I have taught)
Would you let this young man walk to the head of your class and demonstrate his knowledge. If so what would you do after he demonstrated??? I ask this in all seriousness.

tshadowchaser,

I get the distinction you're making. I still have a fairly narrow of this: My teacher would not accept that, nor would I. People are invited to teach -- they don't invite themselves. We've had guests in who teach and train in arts quite different from our own, but, generally, my teacher -- or one of his seniors -- saw them teach or train elsewhere, and then invited them.

The decision is obviously up to the instructor. Again, I don't think teacher would be too happy me if were to invite myself to teach other schools.

Like I say, I seem to be narrow of mind on this topic.

 

[kidswarrior]

In today’s world with all the laws protecting youth and everyone being sue happy it is almost foolish for a person to accept a challenge. Still little things like challenges keep us on our toes both mentally and physically and we must ever be aware that such things happen.

I agree this applies for current students. I allow a little leeway when they've been with me for awhile, and we both know the power of the art to do harm.

Now for those that have read this thread I am going to take it off track a little.

The young man asked if he could teach the class and show them what he had learned. ( He has no idea what i teach or what I have taught)
Would you let this young man walk to the head of your class and demonstrate his knowledge. If so what would you do after he demonstrated??? I ask this in all seriousness.

No. In fact, when this happens to me (and it has--they are obviously there to try to embarrass me/show off for friends), I've taken to just telling them I'm not accepting new students (even if I am ) This subtly lets them know I consider them a student while I'm the chief instructor.

If they continue or escalate it to seriously challenging me to fight, (and I have had this happen, but not in a MA class), I just say something like, Start whenever you want. Their unfailing reply of 'But you don't have your hands up', or, 'We need gloves', or some such shows me they have a duel in mind. A simple reply of this is my fighting stance (hands on hips), or, I don't use gloves, tells them the gravity of the situation. One of the strengths I gained from San Soo was hearing the masters say We don't spar, we do 'workouts' (although this slow-mo partner practice can bruise and even break things ). As Doc said on another thread, quoting Ed Parker if I'm not mistaken, there's a difference between sparring and fighting, and a challenge from one of these youngsters is a good time to make it clear. Have never had one who didn't back down--thank God!!

 

[brianlkennedy]

I have lived in Taiwan for the past 14 years so I have no idea what goes on in American training halls. But a martial arts friend and I were talking about this exact topic awhile back.

I expect I will end up teaching back in California someday. I am already 49 so I suspect I will be in my mid 50s before I ever teach my first American student. Lets say the kid does calmly challenge me or one of my younger but senior in rank students.

I tell the kid I do not take challenges, kid insists, maybe with a laugh saying I will not hurt you old man, just want to cross hands like in the old days. Kid will not leave. I call the cops, cops escort the kid out (this I realize may not be a very realistic situation, the kid most likely will bolt out the door when I start dialing the cops).

Okay, the evenings potential disaster is averted. But------what do my students think? Do they still have confidence in me, my teachings? Or, in the back of their minds are they thinking, "ummmm, Teacher Brian may not be the real deal, if he was he should have duked it out with that guy last night. He backed down, whimped out and called the cops on the dude, I think I will take my martial arts money elsewhere to spend".

Now I realize the answer to that question maybe it depends on how mature your students are and how exactly you are presenting yourself and your art. (i.e. if I am hyping my program just for health or Chinese culture I am less expected to duke it out than if I am claiming to teach self defense or hard core fighting).

Comments?
Take care,
Brian (the maybe future teacher)
p.s. I have not talked about Taiwan because the whole situation is quite different here about challenges, culture and the position of teachers.

 

[Odin]

A teenager walks in to your school....and calmly asks to challenge you.

You ask why?

He says he's self-taught, and he's recently challenged masters in a nearby town. He doesn't say the name of the school, but he says the style, and the town. He says he's held his own.

You gaze at his build, and notice that he is athletic. You ask how old he is, he says he is 15.

The teen talks to you clearly, calmly, and quietly. He doesn't raise his voice, and speaks very confidently and in a matter-of-fact fashion.

What do you do from there?

I would ask if he was related to the Gracies by any chance