So, a brown belt walks in to your school...

[Gordon Nore]

Fakes don't hang around very long when the orange belts are over in the corner arguing about who gets to take the brown belt first when its sparring night. And it they do, they will learn.

warn him that if he spars wearing it, that your browns will fight him at brown belt level.

This covers my thoughts on the initial question, and the secondary question that he might be some kind of faker. I've never met a video trained student, but I imagine that s/he would stick out like a sore thumb.

 

[SA_BJJ]

So what happens if he walks in a brown belt but is at your black belt level. Do you promote him right away? My guess is probably not. If not then why the double standard?

 

[Flying Crane]

I don't understand why there would be any assumption that he is somehow a "fake", just because he might not be at the same level as your own students. Every school has different standards, this one might just be higher than most, at least higher than the one from where this student came.

Remember, just as you look at other people and think they suck, someone else out there thinks that you suck.

That doesn't mean anyone is "faking" anything. It just means different standards.

If this guy has been honest, told you about his training background, why would you suspect any differently? Why would you assume he watched some videos and then put on a brown belt and lied about his training and ranking?

He came to you to learn. If he has been respectful about it, teach him and don't worry about anything else.

 

[SA_BJJ]

I don't understand why there would be any assumption that he is somehow a "fake", just because he might not be at the same level as your own students. Every school has different standards, this one might just be higher than most, at least higher than the one from where this student came.

Remember, just as you look at other people and think they suck, someone else out there thinks that you suck.

That doesn't mean anyone is "faking" anything. It just means different standards.

If this guy has been honest, told you about his training background, why would you suspect any differently? Why would you assume he watched some videos and then put on a brown belt and lied about his training and ranking?

He came to you to learn. If he has been respectful about it, teach him and don't worry about anything else.

Well said sir!

 

[Gordon Nore]

So what happens if he walks in a brown belt but is at your black belt level. Do you promote him right away? My guess is probably not. If not then why the double standard?

No, he should wait. Black belt gradings are not a reward for the gifted -- they are earned by putting in time and sweat.

 

[SA_BJJ]

No, he should wait. Black belt gradings are not a reward for the gifted -- they are earned by putting in time and sweat.

So he puts in alot of time and sweat at his previous gym...his parents move or he/she moves because of work. Now they should wait another two yrs or however long in order to test for what theyve earned? Just a question.

 

[Blindside]

If any of you have had to teach a student like this...have you found it to be more difficult than usual to keep them motivated?

Yup, if they were mentally willing to start over they generally put on a white belt, and because of the brown belt they don't want to come up through the beginner ranks again. It is pretty daunting to know that you probably have a couple years of work to do if you have gotten belts rather easily in the past.

 

[SA_BJJ]

I am somewhat taken back by the fact that everyone chiming in is stuck on this "new" student sucking. For some odd reason you think that your school has to be better than the one they are coming from. Strange...

 

[Blindside]

So he puts in alot of time and sweat at his previous gym...his parents move or he/she moves because of work. Now they should wait another two yrs or however long in order to test for what theyve earned? Just a question.

Kenpo curricullums tend to be fairly particular to a school or lineage, you don't get the transferability that you might get in judo or BJJ. Certain kata, lots of fixed "techniques," certain drills. Black belts in my kenpo lineage are instructors, and you need to know the material to be an instructor, and you have to learn how to teach as well. If you don't want to teach you won't get a black under me, that is the way I was brought up. Anywho, that badass brown won't take too long to catch up, there is no skill building to do, just memorization and showing he can teach. During that time he will be challenged at his level just like any other brown belt, and he'll be pushed by or will be pushing the black belts on the sparring floor, as it should be. But yes, there would be some wait period.

 

[Blindside]

I am somewhat taken back by the fact that everyone chiming in is stuck on this "new" student sucking. For some odd reason you think that your school has to be better than the one they are coming from. Strange...

Because that was what the original poster asked about?

 

[SA_BJJ]

Kenpo curricullums tend to be fairly particular to a school or lineage, you don't get the transferability that you might get in judo or BJJ. Certain kata, lots of fixed "techniques," certain drills. Black belts in my kenpo lineage are instructors, and you need to know the material to be an instructor, and you have to learn how to teach as well. If you don't want to teach you won't get a black under me, that is the way I was brought up. Anywho, that badass brown won't take too long to catch up, there is no skill building to do, just memorization and showing he can teach. During that time he will be challenged at his level just like any other brown belt, and he'll be pushed by or will be pushing the black belts on the sparring floor, as it should be. But yes, there would be some wait period.

Ok now I understand the thinking behind it...

 

[Stan]

OK, let me change this a little bit. What if that same brown belt was awesomely impressive? What if you thought he was under ranked from his old school? How long of formally being in your class would it take until you were confident putting him up for black belt?

Meaning, would demonstrated ability be enough, or would you as a teacher need to get to know the student even if his skills met or exceeded the necessary level?

Keep in mind, there are many underranked martial artists, along with the overranked ones.

 

[John Bishop]

OK, let me change this a little bit. What if that same brown belt was awesomely impressive? What if you thought he was under ranked from his old school? How long of formally being in your class would it take until you were confident putting him up for black belt?

Meaning, would demonstrated ability be enough, or would you as a teacher need to get to know the student even if his skills met or exceeded the necessary level?

Keep in mind, there are many underranked martial artists, along with the overranked ones.

I would say at least 1-2 years. Reason being that becoming a black belt should entail much more then just having the necessary skill set.
If someone came into my school ready to test for black belt, it would seem wrong for me to test him/her. How could I claim them as one of my black belts, since I never trained them? They did'nt put in the years of training, assisting, and dedication to me or our school.
There's more to becoming "part" of a school then just "joining" the school. And there's a "student/teacher" relationship that is built over time with a exchange of teaching and efforts on both parts.
I'm not saying that the student should'nt be promoted to black belt. But if it's solely based on his/her skill level, then a board should test and promote him/her without anyone of them claiming to have been his instructor.
Too many people now days are promoting other people's students, without ever putting in the mat time it takes to truly establish a student/teacher relationship.

 

[Gordon Nore]

So he puts in alot of time and sweat at his previous gym...his parents move or he/she moves because of work. Now they should wait another two yrs or however long in order to test for what theyve earned? Just a question.

Now we're talking more about the instructor than the student. Ideally instructors are pretty serious about whom they tie black belts on. Secondarily, our fictional instructor has X brown belts who've been sweating it out for years, working for their shot at a dan. These senior kyu are known quantities in the dojo. Junior students have trained under and they reflect the credibility of their head instructor.

So the teacher in this case needs to be thinking about more than the money somebody spent in somebody else's school.

 

[Carol]

I would say at least 1-2 years. Reason being that becoming a black belt should entail much more then just having the necessary skill set.
If someone came into my school ready to test for black belt, it would seem wrong for me to test him/her. How could I claim them as one of my black belts, since I never trained them? They did'nt put in the years of training, assisting, and dedication to me or our school.
There's more to becoming "part" of a school then just "joining" the school. And there's a "student/teacher" relationship that is built over time with a exchange of teaching and efforts on both parts.
I'm not saying that the student should'nt be promoted to black belt. But if it's solely based on his/her skill level, then a board should test and promote him/her without anyone of them claiming to have been his instructor.
Too many people now days are promoting other people's students, without ever putting in the mat time it takes to truly establish a student/teacher relationship.

And the time and efforts...that is a delineation between someone who is "a black belt" and someone who is *your* black belt, correct sir?

 

[SA_BJJ]

I would say at least 1-2 years. Reason being that becoming a black belt should entail much more then just having the necessary skill set.
If someone came into my school ready to test for black belt, it would seem wrong for me to test him/her. How could I claim them as one of my black belts, since I never trained them? They did'nt put in the years of training, assisting, and dedication to me or our school.
There's more to becoming "part" of a school then just "joining" the school. And there's a "student/teacher" relationship that is built over time with a exchange of teaching and efforts on both parts.
I'm not saying that the student should'nt be promoted to black belt. But if it's solely based on his/her skill level, then a board should test and promote him/her without anyone of them claiming to have been his instructor.
Too many people now days are promoting other people's students, without ever putting in the mat time it takes to truly establish a student/teacher relationship.

I completely agree with the relationship aspect.

 

[JadeDragon3]

I come from a kung fu background and it seems each kung fu school has it's own curriculum for each sash. At my school we learn a begginer form (gung li chuan) then after that we learn a different animal form for each sash level. Then for black sash we have to learn whip chain form and make one creative form (it can either be empty hand or weapon). We also learn staff (green sash) and broadsword (red sash). Our sash system goes white, yellow, green, blue, purple, red, brown 2nd, brown 1st, and then 1st level black sash.

Because there are so many Shaolin forms I would look at the forms he knows and other material and base my decision (sp?) on what I see from him. He may have other Shaolin forms that I don't teach. I might would work out sometype of trade off. For example IF his forms seemed to be legit I might would let him substitute some of his forms for mine and let him keep his sash level but he would still have to learn my curriculum.

 

[Danjo]

So what happens if he walks in a brown belt but is at your black belt level. Do you promote him right away? My guess is probably not. If not then why the double standard?

Because there's more to being a black belt than skill. There's character, maturity and just an over all sense of who you want representing themselves as one of your students. That takes a bit of time to find out.

Edit: (I should have read the earlier posts before writing this since it's redundant)

 

[KELLYG]

I have seen students come into our school from other schools. Unless they are black belts they are put in white belts and introduced as someone with "experience". After they have trained a while, they are then placed at the level that matches our curriculum/standards.

If, suggested in previous posts, the student is a video student, got to give him props for, wanting to do it bad enough, to try to teach himself.
Someone that motivated will probably be a good student.

 

[MA-Caver]

ALMOST same situation that I was in when I moved here from Utah to Tenn. In principal if not similarities I had all this experience and more years doing than most of my peers here. Yet I wasn't doing it the way that THEY were doing it. My methods were different but not so radically that they couldn't recognize what I was doing.
Then I was asked to instruct. Oh boy... do I instruct my way or their way... well I'm not wholly familiar but recognize their way and know how they do it but feel that my way is better for specific reasons.
When I explain those reasons to the "students" it seems that they went and told them to those who had "questioned" my methods... nobody has critiqued or denied my instructions since. Plus I've shown my competency more times over.
Had they wanted me to do it their way, honestly I think I'd be a bit miffed and resisting at first but rapidly would've given in to doing it their way. But that's just me... other folks might have an air of ego about them that'll get hurt when you burst their bubble. They might quit... no matter how tactfully you may have told them why they're not going to advance until they adopt their new school's curriculum (as it were). :idunno: Hopefully they'll have that brown-belt maturity that I've observed in many who hold that rank and accept the new school's method's and go on.
If not... oh well. People are going to have their own opinion of themselves and if they're not wiling to accept change to that then... nothing you can do to make them.
They will decide to leave on their own...hopefully not leave mad.