A teenager walks in to your school...

To get into the camp where my club is a 15yr old would have to have a dependants ID, that means he would be the son of a soldier/s. In a year or less he could be a soldier himself. At seventeen and a half he could be in Iraq or Afghanistan probably one after the other.

I understand where Andy and the others are coming from but feel that an awful lot is being made of someone walking in and challenging you. A calm no thanks would be enough if you feel you don't want anything to do with him. It sounds as if people are thinking they are being insulted by him? I don't really understand why people are upset to be honest. On an average night in my club in the adult session we will have five amateur fighters, three or four semi pro, a couple of pro fighters, two Parachute Regiment PTIs, two army nurses (female), three Infantry Regts NCOs, one Army Air Corps, two Royal Artillery and two RAMC soldiers. The chief instructor is ex spec forces and close protection, plus two civilian doormen and if anyone wants to walk in and wants to spar with us good luck to them! We spar on different levels according to what we are training but it's always hard. We fight full contact so frankly it's no big deal a kid walking in and saying he wants a challenge but I can't see it happening myself can you? He can join in the sparring if he wishes, he won't get hurt as my guys won't either but then, you know, he may just turn out to be another Bruce Lee, Bas Rutten or Chuck Liddell! His confidence in himself could be justified lol!
 
It could be that I work and train in such a testosterone enriched atmosphere that someone walking in with a challenge isn't deemed unusual lol! We've had challenges from gypsy fighters but I wouldn't like to say whether they are taken up! I will say they are very honourable fighters though lol!
 
Regardless of their age, I don't accept challenges. I explain that I'll be glad to spar after they sign the waiver (under 18 requires a parent/guardian to sign in front of me), pay tuition and train for a month. We don't allow anyone to randori without following the same procedure. I'm certainly not going to reward someone for disrupting my class. If they become belligerent or threatening, I ask them to leave and explain that they are now trespassing and I call the cops.
I've had this happen twice and both time they left after hearing us make the 911 call. When the cops arrive, I filed a complaint, just in case. I don't see it as being timid or afraid to fight, I view it as protecting myself financially and legally. The challenger has nothing to lose. If they are beaten, they lost to an instructor. If they win, they'll brag that they whipped some worthless black belt. If I win, big deal, everyone expects me to win. There is absolutely nothing to be gained.
 
Yeah, a simple no thanks would be enough if He was to be dismissed, only in the description Carol gave, it seemed like the kid wasn't a total waste and had a sense of discipline and respect about him.

That we aren't reading that he ended up hospitalized is a testament to the fact he wasn't there just to make trouble. Carol's one of my best friends, and she trains with Sheldon and Charlie, and by extension, I too have had a training session with/have gotten to meet and know Sheldon and Charlie. Neither one of them is exactly on my Top Ten list of people I would wanna take the Back Alley Test with.

But it sounded to me like the kid had much of the necessary groundwork to have the warrior ethos inculcated in him, he just was goin' about it in a less than ideal way--that's what teens do, this is the time they're figuring out who they are, and being uncertain, are afraid, so I figure this kid had to prove to his own satisfaction he could handle whatever was thrown at him, and , in my imagined scenario, provided the best way I knew to introduce him to change his general worldview to that end, and if all worked out , he'd be a good kid ready to pass into manhood with *correct* warrior values, because there aren't enough of 'em, and for damnsure they aren't gonna learn it in school.
 
Carol Kaur said:
A teenager walks in to your school....and calmly asks to challenge you.

You ask why?

He says he's self-taught, and he's recently challenged masters in a nearby town. He doesn't say the name of the school, but he says the style, and the town. He says he's held his own.

You gaze at his build, and notice that he is athletic. You ask how old he is, he says he is 15.

The teen talks to you clearly, calmly, and quietly. He doesn't raise his voice, and speaks very confidently and in a matter-of-fact fashion.

What do you do from there?
Click to expand...


My Answer before reading what others have written. :)

I would reply as I have years ago, that I have already lost. ** Usually this brings startle from the students and a confused or angry face from the challenger. ** I have lost as if I accept and you win then it is assumed that even if I cannot win, I cannot teach others to have good technique. If I do win then you can walk out of here and call the police and say I hurt you when you did not wish to be hurt. So either way I loose.

But if you insist on still wishing to test your skills then I ask the following:
** I usually say this very quiet like and with my arm around them if possible. **
1) After everone leaves we lock the doors.
2) It is only you and I.
3) No witnesses and no camera's.
4) There are no rules.
5) Understand that by no rules I mean no rules.

Or do you just wish to test your skill set out? If so then just sit back and watch. Enjoy, and learn if possible.

***** Note: as this was addressed to a person under age other precautions may also have to be stated. As I did one night with a young punk who kicked me and said I could nto do anything in return as he was under 18 and I as over 18. I reached out and grabbed him by the neck and pinned him on his toes against the wall. I then screamed my head off for the police and for help and yelled fire. the police station was actually real close to us. The back of their property touched ours as well. No one came to help. No one wanted to get involved. I then explained to him that while the "LAW" protects him he has to survive long enough to get to someone to press charges and then to get a ADA to think there is a case to take it to court. I also then explained that according to the local laws that I could defend myself agsint someone of any age with equal and opposite force. I then explained that in our state kicking someone with your shoes on was assault and battery with a deadly weapon. Minimum Great Bodily harm, could be charged with attempted murder. So this allowed me to use my discretion in defending my life from great bodily harm and possible murder. Equal means I can reply in kind. The young punk asked if he could home. I smiled and let him go home, no damage, just a scare. Explaining this to a minor is sometimes required, for they believe they are some how untouchable.

Personally, I have never had to go past the explaination of closed doors and no rules, and no witnesses. As most want to show off their skills and make you look bad. And the others now are concerned about being in your place with the doors locked and it is just one on one with no real gain as both sides can claim what they want, unless someone actually gets seriously hurt.
 
I love the way Gene LeBell deals with this. Whenever he's challenged, he asks how much the guy is going to pay him to fight. The challenger invariably says they're not going to pay anything and Gene tells them he doesn't fight for less than $10,000 (the amount varies) and to come back when they've got the cash.:)
 
Andy Moynihan said:
Yeah, a simple no thanks would be enough if He was to be dismissed, only in the description Carol gave, it seemed like the kid wasn't a total waste and had a sense of discipline and respect about him.

That we aren't reading that he ended up hospitalized is a testament to the fact he wasn't there just to make trouble. Carol's one of my best friends, and she trains with Sheldon and Charlie, and by extension, I too have had a training session with/have gotten to meet and know Sheldon and Charlie. Neither one of them is exactly on my Top Ten list of people I would wanna take the Back Alley Test with.

But it sounded to me like the kid had much of the necessary groundwork to have the warrior ethos inculcated in him, he just was goin' about it in a less than ideal way--that's what teens do, this is the time they're figuring out who they are, and being uncertain, are afraid, so I figure this kid had to prove to his own satisfaction he could handle whatever was thrown at him, and , in my imagined scenario, provided the best way I knew to introduce him to change his general worldview to that end, and if all worked out , he'd be a good kid ready to pass into manhood with *correct* warrior values, because there aren't enough of 'em, and for damnsure they aren't gonna learn it in school.
Click to expand...

I love that expression! We've never had anyone wander in and start trouble (said in a wistful tone lol) We don't at shows either.To actually come in our door is usually regarded as being a pretty good test of intentions. We may not get trouble at our shows but we get plenty of the bravedo! "yeah I'm coming to train with you" and "yeah I want to fight" many say they will come in but very few do which is amazing the amount of "cage fighters" there are in the area rofl! so if this lad walked in our door we'd be welcoming! We've had a couple of mothers drag their lads in though as they were getting out of hand, one of them is now our best pro fighter with exciting prospects ahead of him.
 
Carol Kaur said:
A teenager walks in to your school....and calmly asks to challenge you.

You ask why?

He says he's self-taught, and he's recently challenged masters in a nearby town. He doesn't say the name of the school, but he says the style, and the town. He says he's held his own.

You gaze at his build, and notice that he is athletic. You ask how old he is, he says he is 15.

The teen talks to you clearly, calmly, and quietly. He doesn't raise his voice, and speaks very confidently and in a matter-of-fact fashion.

What do you do from there?
Click to expand...

I doubt my teacher would really care how polite or calm the challenger is. To my way of thinking, nobody walks into someone else's school to show what they know, but to learn what the teacher has to offer.
 
We have a Brazilian BJJ coach who's talked a few times about challenges behind locked doors. I think they may be common in Brazil.
This is one of our Para PTI's, he's from 2 Para Regt. Not the best of records but he's as hard as nails. He teaches the recruits so is used to teenage boys. The have "milling" as part of their training. The recruits put boxing gloves on and fight each other.

http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/fightfinder.asp?FighterID=3941

You'll like this one lol, they are discussing milling,Sandy 'The Guvnor' is the above fighter.
http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/p=758698.html
 
Gordon Nore said:
I doubt my teacher would really care how polite or calm the challenger is. To my way of thinking, nobody walks into someone else's school to show what they know, but to learn what the teacher has to offer.
Click to expand...


I see your point exactly there. We aren't a school but a team and have one instructor and a couple of coaches. We actively encourage and invite people to come and show us stuff so it makes it easy for us to have people in. I can imagine though it would be impolite to say the least to enter a school uninvited.
 
A couple of years ago something like this happened to my Sensei. He had some guy come in, about 20, and asked for a fight. He said that if my Sensei could beat him, he must have something worth learning, and would train with us. My Sensei told him no a coupld of times, but the guy wouldn't go away. So, my sensei finally said "ok, we have a class going on right now, come back when it's done, and I'll have you sigh a waiver, we'll look the doors, and we can fight". At this time we had commercial space, and a kids class (which is what was going on).
The kid aparently a 'deer in the head lights' look, and asked what a waiver is. My Sensei answered with "it's a piece of paper that says that if I mess you up, or worse, you wont sue me". He was never seen again in my school.
 
FieldDiscipline said:
Mmm. Milling...

A link to Arrse Tez? What have you started!
Click to expand...

LOL, you understand I don't go on there myself......I use the RAF bit lol!

Have to admit the humour may fox a lot of people though!



So what's your usename on there then lol!
 
This sort of thing actually happen at our school, accept is was new black belt about 20 years old from a TKD school in a neighboring town, I found out later he was training for a MMA fight he was competeing in the next month. He came in one night an watched our class, at the end of class he said he was a black belt and wanted to challenge our black belts to a full contact MMA match, I told this person no at first stating we are not about proving anything to anybody and this was a disrepectful way of making new friends, and offerred him to join our class and earn the right to test his skills, he joined, and earned his rgiht, he got is match.
 
In the neighborhood my school is located, we have lots of criminal and gang activity. More often then not, if someone walks in looking for a fight, its a good bet that they belong to some sort of gang. I'm not going to take the chance of letting gang members hone or test their fighting skills at my school.

Imagine what would happen if word got around that I accepted challenges in that kind of environment?

It's not worth the risk. It goes against the philosophy that I teach. It sets a bad precedent.

If challenge matches are part of what you do, thats fine. It just can't work for me.
 
My sahbum and his sahbum have told me about the challenge matches they responded to, and the ones they made - but even they admit freely that those times are gone; it's a different world, and people today train largely for different reasons. I would not accept a challenge match at my school, nor would I allow my students to do so.
 
It'd depend on the circumstances. I'd have to talk to the kid, and see why he thought he could challenge me. Then, if he impressed me favorably, I might let him fight in my class. I'm not fighting a kid unless I'm teaching him or it's for real... but I've got a couple of students that I'd happily let fight someone with the right attitude, in a training mindset.

If he's got the wrong attitude... Then, he's gone. With whatever force is necessary to convince him of the errors of his ways.
 
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