A Stolen Election in 2004?

[Makalakumu]

"One e-voting problem this election that became a lightning rod for critics happened in Gahanna near Columbus in Franklin County, where an electronic voting system gave Bush nearly 4,000 extra votes. Officials said the malfunction occurred when one machine's cartridge was plugged into a laptop computer and generated faulty numbers in several races."

hmmm....

Bev Harris, who has been working tirelessly since the passage of the Help America Vote Act to inform people of the dangers present in this new process, got a chance to demonstrate how easy it is to steal an election on that central tabulation computer while a guest on the CNBC program 'Topic A With Tina Brown.' Ms. Brown was off that night, and the guest host was none other than Governor Howard Dean. Thanks to Governor Dean and Ms. Harris, anyone watching CNBC that night got to see just how easy it is to steal an election because of these new machines and the flawed processes they use.

"In a voting system," Harris said on the show, "you have all the different voting machines at all the different polling places, sometimes, as in a county like mine, there's a thousand polling places in a single county. All those machines feed into the one machine so it can add up all the votes. So, of course, if you were going to do something you shouldn't to a voting machine, would it be more convenient to do it to each of the 4000 machines, or just come in here and deal with all of them at once? What surprises people is that the central tabulator is just a PC, like what you and I use. It's just a regular computer."

Harris then proceeded to open a laptop computer that had on it the software used to tabulate the votes by one of the aforementioned central processors. Journalist Thom Hartman describes what happened next: "So Harris had Dean close the Diebold GEMS tabulation software, go back to the normal Windows PC desktop, click on the 'My Computer' icon, choose 'Local Disk C:,' open the folder titled GEMS, and open the sub-folder 'LocalDB' which, Harris noted, 'stands for local database, that's where they keep the votes.' Harris then had Dean double-click on a file in that folder titled Central Tabulator Votes,' which caused the PC to open the vote count in a database program like Excel. 'Let's just flip those,' Harris said, as Dean cut and pasted the numbers from one cell into the other. Harris sat up a bit straighter, smiled, and said, 'We just edited an election, and it took us 90 seconds.'"

Any system that makes it this easy to steal or corrupt an election has no business being anywhere near the voters on election day.

 

[Makalakumu]

These stories of stolen elections have reached the status of urban myths, sort of like those alligators in the sewers of New York and the choking doberman stories that go around every so often. Oh yeah, don't forget @ the Wal Mart kidnapings and the Roswell spacemen. In fact, stolen elections are the UFO's of the new millenium.
From a more objective perspective, the presidents of the three major networks' news groups did a forum at Stanford not long ago. It was broadcast on CSPAN. Questions @ the " stolen votes " clearly made them uncomfortable. Why? Because the questioners although seemingly sincere, are paranoid and delusional. I seem to recall one of these newsmen saying:"No one wanted this story more than we did. Regardless of your candidate, Florida 2000 was a great story. We assembled a team of attorneys and investigators numbering in the hundreds and sent them to Florida and Ohio. There is no story. They found nothing that would have changed the outcome. Period.:
I've paraphrased and combined their answers, but that's the gist of it.
Believe it, NBC, CBS, ABC and the Kerry campaign wanted to find irregularities and couldn't. So now, your sources can?
The internet is the safe house for kooks and misinformation. Don't buy into it.

Thousands and thousands of people were coming out of the woodwork with stories. How long did the Kerry campaign wait to sort through them? About a day. Nothing jumped out right at that time. I think that his concession was a tactical retreat.

 

[Makalakumu]

Don't start sounding too rational here....next thing you know you will be getting labelled as a 'copper top' that is still 'plugged into the matrix.'

Are these rational people involved in a rational look at what happened?

November 5, 2004
The Honorable David M. Walker
Comptroller General of the United States
U.S. General Accountability Office
441 G Street, NW
Washington, DC 20548

Dear Mr. Walker:

We write with an urgent request that the Government Accountability Office immediately undertake an investigation of the efficacy of voting machines and new technologies used in the 2004 election, how election officials responded to difficulties they encountered and what we can do in the future to improve our election systems and administration.

In particular, we are extremely troubled by the following reports, which we would also request that you review and evaluate for us:

In Columbus, Ohio, an electronic voting system gave President Bush nearly 4,000 extra votes. ("Machine Error Gives Bush Extra Ohio Votes," Associated Press, November 5)

An electronic tally of a South Florida gambling ballot initiative failed to record thousands of votes. "South Florida OKs Slot Machines Proposal," (Id.)

In one North Carolina county, more than 4,500 votes were lost because officials mistakenly believed a computer that stored ballots could hold more data that it did. "Machine Error Gives Bush Extra Ohio Votes," (Id.)

In San Francisco, a glitch occurred with voting machines software that resulted in some votes being left uncounted. (Id.)

In Florida, there was a substantial drop off in Democratic votes in proportion to voter registration in counties utilizing optical scan machines that was apparently not present in counties using other mechanisms.

The House Judiciary Committee Democratic staff has received numerous reports from Youngstown, Ohio that voters who attempted to cast a vote for John Kerry on electronic voting machines saw that their votes were instead recorded as votes for George W. Bush. In South Florida, Congressman Wexler's staff received numerous reports from voters in Palm Beach, Broward and Dade Counties that they attempted to select John Kerry but George Bush appeared on the screen. CNN has reported that a dozen voters in six states, particularly Democrats in Florida, reported similar problems. This was among over one thousand such problems reported. ("Touchscreen Voting Problems Reported," Associated Press, November 5)

Excessively long lines were a frequent problem throughout the nation in Democratic precincts, particularly in Florida and Ohio. In one Ohio voting precinct serving students from Kenyon College, some voters were required to wait more than eight hours to vote. ("All Eyes on Ohio," Dan Lothian, CNN, November 3)

We are literally receiving additional reports every minute and will transmit additional information as it comes available. The essence of democracy is the confidence of the electorate in the accuracy of voting methods and the fairness of voting procedures. In 2000, that confidence suffered terribly, and we fear that such a blow to our democracy may have occurred in 2004.

Thank you for your prompt attention to this inquiry.

Sincerely,

John Conyers, Jr., Jerrold Nadler, Robert Wexler

Ranking Member, Ranking Member, Member of Congress
House Judiciary Committee, Subcommittee on the Constitution

cc: Hon. F. James Sensenbrenner, Chairman

Or are they silly conspiracy theorists too?

 

[PeachMonkey]

I think that his concession was a tactical retreat.

Or a complicit gambit. Let's not forget that the Democrats are no party of sweetness and light, and as such, have no great vested interest in a truly educated, motivated electorate.

 

[ghostdog2]

Loki, thanks for the " heads up "'. I almost got drawn into this one. Next thing you know, I'll be calling talk radio shows and from there, it's the long slide down.

 

[loki09789]

Are these rational people involved in a rational look at what happened?



Or are they silly conspiracy theorists too?

Why are they looking at it? Because they themselves are worried or to satisfy other people/citizens that are putting pressure on political officials much like those backward thinking "Fundamental Christian Special interest groups" and such have been described as doing in the past?

How many times have these examples of 'rational people' - as in politicians - been conversely described as insensitive, corrupt people that are only interested in power, power, power and usurping our civil liberties with no concern for the common man?

When they serve your purpose of support they become 'rational people'....

 

[Makalakumu]

The difference is that there are real, quantifiable, examples of voter intimidation, voter fraud, and the actual method this occured has been demonstrated. I would say that there is a huge difference in the claims of this special interest group. Especially when compared to some of the claims made by other groups (like Creationism) that are made that totally fly in the face of ALL the evidence.

Your comparison does not connect the two in any way.

upnorthkyosa

btw - by special interest, I mean people that care about fair elections.

 

[loki09789]

The difference is that there are real, quantifiable, examples of voter intimidation, voter fraud, and the actual method this occured has been demonstrated. I would say that there is a huge difference in the claims of this special interest group. Especially when compared to some of the claims made by other groups (like Creationism) that are made that totally fly in the face of ALL the evidence.

Your comparison does not connect the two in any way.

upnorthkyosa

btw - by special interest, I mean people that care about fair elections.

And your 'evidence' of unregulated, unfair, inequitable voting conditions/standards does not connect it to a single orchestrated agenda driven group IMO.

Maybe there is a problem with the system, sure, but that does not automatically mean that 'da man' is at it again.

 

[Makalakumu]

And your 'evidence' of unregulated, unfair, inequitable voting conditions/standards does not connect it to a single orchestrated agenda driven group IMO.

Maybe there is a problem with the system, sure, but that does not automatically mean that 'da man' is at it again.

Your on, Paul! Its time to go down the rabbit hole on this one. We'll see what I can dig up.

 

[loki09789]

Your on, Paul! Its time to go down the rabbit hole on this one. We'll see what I can dig up.

With as many 'conspiracies' that you have attempted to reveal through these discussions...that may be where you are coming from and not going down sometimes......


Honestly though, I don't really understand how it is possible that on one hand either 'politicians' or 'politics' is this big, clunky, insensitive, self absorbed, inefficient, ineffective mechanism that can't get anything done worth beans....

BUT

They can come together, put aside their petty differences and do the old 'wonder twins powers ACTIVATE' in order to 'fix elections' (even to the point of shedding party rivalries to do it), 'frame OJ','Fake the moon landings','cover up alien contact...' or anything else out there.

Along the same lines:

On one hand the 'media' is this big corporate machine that is only motivated by profit and makes unreliable supporting evidence...

UNTIL

CNN or some other 'credible' media source has something to say that is appealing/people 'want' to believe/can combine with something else taken out of context to appear 'evidential' because they are placed in the same paragraph....

IF it were truly that coordinated and intentional a game SOMEONE in the news would have broken the story by now considering how much people seem to personally hate the POTUS and LOVE to get credit for scoops.

Sorry, I would chalk it up to an inefficient system that needs unifying and revamping/regulating.

 

[Makalakumu]

First off, what if you are wrong?

Secondly, can you afford to be wrong?

Thirdly, for some, no amount of "evidence" will ever be enough. I have a great spin off thread regarding this game of "red truth blue truth" we have been playing for some time.

 

[FearlessFreep]

Why do the names 'Vince Foster' and 'Ron Brown' come begrudgingly to mind?

 

[michaeledward]

I have worked hard to stay out of this discussion. Eric Alterman posted this link on his blog today. Perhaps, it is rehashing a number of previously cited arguments, but it may be nice to have all the links in one place.

http://nightweed.com/usavotefacts.html
Mike

 

[loki09789]

First off, what if you are wrong?

Secondly, can you afford to be wrong?

Thirdly, for some, no amount of "evidence" will ever be enough. I have a great spin off thread regarding this game of "red truth blue truth" we have been playing for some time.

First off, I only have so much energy to devote to certain things. I choose to devote them to my job, my family and such. Beyond that, worrying too much about things that I can't impact beyond voting and lobbying (if it is something that really grabs me).

Secondly, if I am wrong, I do have faith that there are enough diverse, personally vested (personally motivated) public servants that have sworn to serve/represent us and will stand up for 'us' as needed....not to mention gain some personal reputation/status after the dust settles (thus starting a new cycle of BS because it will never really go away).

Thirdly, for some, no amount of reasonability is enough when it is more fun to inject a little adrenaline/urgency to make life more 'zesty.'

I haven't started any spin offs because it isn't worth my time.

I remember a thread on leadership/character or something where one of the negative tactics of creating a group mentallity is establishing/fabricating/creating a common enemy that everyone can rally against instead of a positive goal to work toward.

 

[Makalakumu]

I have worked hard to stay out of this discussion. Eric Alterman posted this link on his blog today. Perhaps, it is rehashing a number of previously cited arguments, but it may be nice to have all the links in one place.

http://nightweed.com/usavotefacts.html
Mike

Why have you tried to stay out of this discussion? It would have been great to get some more input and opinions.

 

[Makalakumu]

First off, I only have so much energy to devote to certain things. I choose to devote them to my job, my family and such. Beyond that, worrying too much about things that I can't impact beyond voting and lobbying (if it is something that really grabs me).

Secondly, if I am wrong, I do have faith that there are enough diverse, personally vested (personally motivated) public servants that have sworn to serve/represent us and will stand up for 'us' as needed....not to mention gain some personal reputation/status after the dust settles (thus starting a new cycle of BS because it will never really go away).

Thirdly, for some, no amount of reasonability is enough when it is more fun to inject a little adrenaline/urgency to make life more 'zesty.'

I haven't started any spin offs because it isn't worth my time.

I remember a thread on leadership/character or something where one of the negative tactics of creating a group mentallity is establishing/fabricating/creating a common enemy that everyone can rally against instead of a positive goal to work toward.

This post is screaming apathy (not to be confused with screaming apathy). If you take a look at all of information posted on this thread, it is very likely that our democratic values have been subverted. Does this matter? Or does it only matter when it starts to directly affect you? I'm sensing a quick ride on the slippery slope...

 

[michaeledward]

Why have you tried to stay out of this discussion? It would have been great to get some more input and opinions.

A bit too close to home, I think.

I guess we live in a Red Country. I am continuing to try and find ways to take advantage of this, despite its abhorrance to me.

I guess, I am happy that I am in a position to take advantage of many of the 'Red Country' initiatives. Although, I think it does weaken the nation as a whole.

It's a Diebold and ES&S country too. And to think, I thought Chuck Hagel was one of the good guys. <<shrugg>>.

M

 

[Tgace]

The fact that so few people seem to care my just indicate that a LOT of people voted for Bush huh?

 

[Tgace]

With as many 'conspiracies' that you have attempted to reveal through these discussions...that may be where you are coming from and not going down sometimes......


Honestly though, I don't really understand how it is possible that on one hand either 'politicians' or 'politics' is this big, clunky, insensitive, self absorbed, inefficient, ineffective mechanism that can't get anything done worth beans....

BUT

They can come together, put aside their petty differences and do the old 'wonder twins powers ACTIVATE' in order to 'fix elections' (even to the point of shedding party rivalries to do it), 'frame OJ','Fake the moon landings','cover up alien contact...' or anything else out there.

Along the same lines:

On one hand the 'media' is this big corporate machine that is only motivated by profit and makes unreliable supporting evidence...

UNTIL

CNN or some other 'credible' media source has something to say that is appealing/people 'want' to believe/can combine with something else taken out of context to appear 'evidential' because they are placed in the same paragraph....

IF it were truly that coordinated and intentional a game SOMEONE in the news would have broken the story by now considering how much people seem to personally hate the POTUS and LOVE to get credit for scoops.

Sorry, I would chalk it up to an inefficient system that needs unifying and revamping/regulating.

Thats worth reading again.....

 

[Makalakumu]

The fact that so few people seem to care may just indicate that a LOT of people voted for Bush huh?

So, I guess election fraud is okay as long as the right guy gets into office...

hmmmmm