A breakdown of the Frank Dux claims
- Thread starter Charlemagne
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hoshin1600
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yeah i kinda like how he just walked around the area after in his bare feet like it was nothing.
I apparently didn't watch that far into the video. Him walking like that makes new wonder if it was sugar glass (what's used in movies for breaking bottles/windows).
hoshin1600
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it wasnt something he was doing to show off it was incidental. but yeah same as i was thinking
And similarly with the blindfold responses. I know of an instructor who did a big demo in Madison Square Gardens decades ago, which included blindfolded knife defenses. His senior student shared years later that the instructor was trained as a stage magician, and was able to see during that demo (apparently using a trick blindfold, which I suppose stage magicians do on a regular basis).
KabutoKouji
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I'm diggin the Buck Rogers style gis 
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Yeah, I feel like there is something fishy about those breaks...including the one one “bulletproof” glass.
Several people involved in that demo have said that the bottles were sugar glass, and the "bulletproof" glass was just a piece of plexiglass.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
I saw the speculation in this thread but didn’t know it had been confirmed.
As I recall, one of the people involved was a movie special effects guy who stated that he provided the sugar glass.
Danny T
Senior Master
The supposed bullet proof glass was single pane with no layering. Bullet proof glass doesn't break up like it did.
This is a panel of bullet proof glass struck several times with a sledge hammer. Nothing like shown in the above video.
This is a panel of bullet proof glass struck several times with a sledge hammer. Nothing like shown in the above video.
JR 137
Grandmaster
I’ve heard the bottle and bulletproof glass refuted many times.
It’s a demo. Does it really matter much in the whole grand scheme of things? Some very well-respected teachers do some demo stuff that doesn’t have anything to do with what they teach. Shigeru Oyama did a sword catch demo countless times in his days. The one that sticks out most was in the Fighting Black Kings movie with Tadashi Nakamura. Nakamura has done it a few times too. They did a whole routine of samurai sword defense. Neither one of them has ever taught that nor sold it as “join my dojo and you’ll be able to do the same thing” or anything close to that. Side note: Oyama actually missed his sword catch one time and got his scalp split open. I heard he rubbed his head and jokingly said “I think I should go get stitches” or something like that.
Looking at some of Dux’s actual teaching videos (I didn’t watch every minute of every one), I don’t see anything completely off the wall. I’ve seen better and I’ve seen worse. Far worse. I didn’t care much for the knife defense where they were on the sidewalk, but I’ve seen worse things. I thought the principles were better than the actual techniques, but again, I’ve seen better.
Like I said earlier, I see the demo stuff and the background stuff as a distraction. What’s important is what he’s actually teaching his students, not what he claims his past was nor what he did in a demo. All I’m saying is judge him and everyone else on what they actually teach. There’s a lot of high profile and well respected teachers out there who aren’t exactly squeaky clean when it comes to their demos and past claims.
It’s a demo. Does it really matter much in the whole grand scheme of things? Some very well-respected teachers do some demo stuff that doesn’t have anything to do with what they teach. Shigeru Oyama did a sword catch demo countless times in his days. The one that sticks out most was in the Fighting Black Kings movie with Tadashi Nakamura. Nakamura has done it a few times too. They did a whole routine of samurai sword defense. Neither one of them has ever taught that nor sold it as “join my dojo and you’ll be able to do the same thing” or anything close to that. Side note: Oyama actually missed his sword catch one time and got his scalp split open. I heard he rubbed his head and jokingly said “I think I should go get stitches” or something like that.
Looking at some of Dux’s actual teaching videos (I didn’t watch every minute of every one), I don’t see anything completely off the wall. I’ve seen better and I’ve seen worse. Far worse. I didn’t care much for the knife defense where they were on the sidewalk, but I’ve seen worse things. I thought the principles were better than the actual techniques, but again, I’ve seen better.
Like I said earlier, I see the demo stuff and the background stuff as a distraction. What’s important is what he’s actually teaching his students, not what he claims his past was nor what he did in a demo. All I’m saying is judge him and everyone else on what they actually teach. There’s a lot of high profile and well respected teachers out there who aren’t exactly squeaky clean when it comes to their demos and past claims.
Agreed. Demo stuff is usually either boring as heck (bad demo) or interesting and flaky (bad MA). I only get concerned when it actually manages to be both boring and bad MA.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Well, spun sugar bottles and faux bullet proof glass is just downright deceitful.
If it is true that he did in fact use these materials, then it speaks volumes to his character.
I can look past stretching the truth for dramatic effect. A blatant and deliberate deception, designed to enhance his image in the eyes of the uneducated, that I cannot forgive.
If it is true that he did in fact use these materials, then it speaks volumes to his character.
I can look past stretching the truth for dramatic effect. A blatant and deliberate deception, designed to enhance his image in the eyes of the uneducated, that I cannot forgive.
A lot of skilled martial artists have given demonstrations that weren't what the public thought they were. Somewhere there's a vague and hazy line that gets crossed, and (as the adjectives imply) I'm not entirely sure where that line is. The sugar glass is probably over that line. Calling something "bullet-proof glass" that isn't is definitely over that line.
Demonstrations are marketing, so a lot of "fluff" shows up. Pre-planned attack and defense sequences made to look spontaneous are fodder for ethical philosophy, but don't really set me off - these are more a recognition of the problem of public perception and reaction. Lying to the crowd is another thing.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Well and there was that bit in the video where his accomplice pretended to shoot a bullet into the glass, thereby “establishing” that fact. What a bunch of con men.
OP
Charlemagne
Black Belt
- Thread Starter
- #37
OP
Charlemagne
Black Belt
- Thread Starter
- #38
Why are people saying that the Pinkmans videos aren't legit? That's insanity. His intro music is much more official sounding too. Seriously though- why would anyone dispute such obvious facts. The narrative of Frank Dux is fairly simple. He's a non-rate Valor thief (the guy was not covert in any capacity when he was active duty, it doesn't work that way. But there's nothing shaky with the logic in any video that calls out the BS of martial arts frauds like Dux and Kim, and there's nothing feeble about the points held against either man because both of those guys created this problem for themselves. Maybe don't lie so much? Either way- defending a piece of trash like Dux is a huge indictment about the person doing the defending because they're knowingly defending a lie by bending the truth themselves. It's that or it's delusion. The OP has it right- the community should police itself against frauds. Former military does, and so do boxers and other people who participate in combat sports.
The reason for outing these frauds isn't because it's fun or funny- outing frauds is necessary because these people are teaching dubious techniques that probably won't hold up in a real life situation and on top of that, when they buy their way to black belt, these frauds will have the students thinking that they are more capable than they really are.
These frauds who teach are dangerous. One day, someone is going to be LAARPing on the wrong property and they're gonna get shot up, even if they've trained in bullet dodging.
Sure, the byproduct can yield some laughs but lets not forget that the reason people like Dux and Kim are put out there is so it makes it harder for them to rip off people who are easily swayed by suggestion.
The reason for outing these frauds isn't because it's fun or funny- outing frauds is necessary because these people are teaching dubious techniques that probably won't hold up in a real life situation and on top of that, when they buy their way to black belt, these frauds will have the students thinking that they are more capable than they really are.
These frauds who teach are dangerous. One day, someone is going to be LAARPing on the wrong property and they're gonna get shot up, even if they've trained in bullet dodging.
Sure, the byproduct can yield some laughs but lets not forget that the reason people like Dux and Kim are put out there is so it makes it harder for them to rip off people who are easily swayed by suggestion.
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