11 year old boy arrested for drawing violent stick figure...

[LuckyKBoxer]

I have always loved to draw, and it was probably around the age of 11 or so that I took an interest in what the kids around me were drawing in the margins and on the backs of their notebooks. Without exception, the boys at that age were drawing violent things. Some were more detailed than stick figures, and in fact many were very elaborate depictions of warfare in all its gory detail. Popular subjects seemed to be fanged and clawed monsters, shootings, bombs and explosions. This is just the kinds of drawings that I took note of casually glancing at the desks around me. Nobody seemed particularly alarmed back then, and as far as I know, these were just normal kids. Girls at that age draw unicorns and rainbows, boys draw guns.

What probably alarmed the teacher is that the drawing was depicting her specifically. Okay I get that, but is that really all so unusual? Isn't drawing in one's notebook at that age the visual equivalent of a diary? They work out their frustrations in drawings instead of words, so what? So if a kid wrote in his diary that he wished his teacher would drop dead, do we get alarmed and declare him mentally unstable? Is it a reason to suspend or expel him?

I can tell you, in Jr. High School there had been many times I wished certain teachers would drop dead! As well as siblings and even parents. But no, I had no actual intent to harm anybody and quickly forgot those wishes a minute later. Had I drawn a picture of my internal fantasies however, would that have been more of a cause for alarm than if I'd expressed it in a diary?

I can agree with what you said until the end...
it would be the equivalent of writing in their diary, I want to get a gun and shoot my teachers in the head.

if he had drawn a picture of himself looking confused and a bunch stick figured payign down with Xs on their eyes I doubt it would have gathered the same attention.

 

[ballen0351]

there is not quite enough information to make an informed opinion on this I think.
when I was a kid I always drew violent cartoons..
tanks and battleships and warplanes and soldiers with guns and knives..
fight scenes with blood galore.... rambo all over the place...
my family was all military and my brother and cousins and i would often run around the hills behind our houses building forts, sneaking in supplies(candy, soda, sticks, matches etc.) have wars throwing dirt clods at each other, try to sneak up on each other and beat each other with sticks.... just stupid wild kid stuff..

but all that being said the things I never did...
was specify who was being "killed" in my drawings... it was generic... it was war type violence for the sake of wartype violence..
the one thing that gave me chills about this was that he specifically wrote that the teachers must die on his drawings, specified himself as the killer, and depicted their murders...
that seems to be another step above being fascinated with war, and violence... that seems to struggling with plans on actually following through.

I have no idea how to approach this, but if the kid is that disturbed that he is drawing himself murdering his teachers, he probably needs to be removed from the situation to begin with and go from there.

I agree as soon as he spelled out his "target" it became more then just a kid drawing war pictures. It deserved a little more attention.

 

[crushing]

yes but the religious tools of the Sikhs are not considered weapons and they are allowed to bring them to schools....??
plastic knives banned... geesh i think a sharpened pencil would be more deadly then a plastic knife.

There is no place for reason, logic and common sense when it comes to the law! If the people were able to easily recognize what the law considered right or wrong, and if the breaking of such laws were prosecuted consistently, then the people would know exactly where they stand and why.

 

[Nomad]

Metal rulers, pencils, pens, scissors, heavy books, chairs, a coffee mug, rocks, a baseball, glass beakers…
Off the top of my head I can think of many things much more accessible and dangerous then a plastic knife in any classroom.

Well, sure they're more dangerous, but none of those are "weapons", whereas, in their minds, a knife is, even a plastic one...

 

[Nomad]

Did you have the same issues this kid has?

No, I didn't. I was bullied on a regular basis, which some people might have seen as a warning flag of impending violence.

Or were you just drawing for the sake of drawing? I never drew pics that depicted violence. Did anyone else on here?

I did. I was big into comics at that age (up until around 18 or so), and did some very violent comic-book type art (along with writing stories to go with it). Some of these included depictions of demons and devils (ANOTHER warning sign!)

Would it be acceptable if this kid 'expressed' himself, by killing animals? How about physically abusing a sibling? Sorry, I disagree....stuff like this is not acceptable behavior IMO.

Absolutely not. But I'd argue that there's a HUGE difference between drawing a picture (or playing a violent video game for that matter... another "sign" that is often pointed to after an incident) and committing actual acts of violence (against other people or animals).

To me, the main point would be that a very quick investigation would have revealed this as a therapeutic technique advised by a mental health professional as a means of dealing with the child's issues. As such, an arrest was completely unwarranted.

 

[ballen0351]

To me, the main point would be that a very quick investigation would have revealed this as a therapeutic technique advised by a mental health professional as a means of dealing with the child's issues. As such, an arrest was completely unwarranted.

An Arrest is not always punitive there are many programs available to Juveniles that are not available except thru the Criminal Justice system. Fair or not its the way things are because of funding. Ive had parents beg me to arrest their kids because they have tried to get them into programs and they are turned away because they kid has never been arrested before which is another warning sign. Im also sure the therapeutic technique was not to label your targets. Any kid that has so much rage and anger inside they need to draw pictures of death to calm down prob should not be in a school setting. If I found out a kid like this was in my kids class Id be down to the school demanding my kid be transfered.

 

[Xue Sheng]

If they ever saw the stuff I drew in my note books back in my High School days....

 

[granfire]

An Arrest is not always punitive there are many programs available to Juveniles that are not available except thru the Criminal Justice system. Fair or not its the way things are because of funding. Ive had parents beg me to arrest their kids because they have tried to get them into programs and they are turned away because they kid has never been arrested before which is another warning sign. Im also sure the therapeutic technique was not to label your targets. Any kid that has so much rage and anger inside they need to draw pictures of death to calm down prob should not be in a school setting. If I found out a kid like this was in my kids class Id be down to the school demanding my kid be transfered.

I don't know, but being escorted out of school is pretty darn punitive to me.
You know, one of them things that nobody will likely forget, ever...or maybe the ones looking will forget about it.

In general - though I like the teachers I have dealt with in the last 8 years - I still trust a somebody trained in the field more than them. Even with the caveat that some of the shrinks and such could not find their behind with both hands.
Now we created yet another example of the unintended side effects of actions like this:

Even if that kid is to return to school...
He was told by an authority figure to act one way
just to be punished by another one.
I don't think that his anger towards the teacher will deminish with what transpired, he will be like more careful as to how to express this frustration.
And the kid next to him. and so on and so forth.


Granted that news articles are notoriously inaccurate (it's like the new form of the plague...) But I am venturing a guess that the situation could have been resolved with minor uproar if the teacher would have simply picked up the phone and called the parents.

 

[ballen0351]

I don't know, but being escorted out of school is pretty darn punitive to me.
You know, one of them things that nobody will likely forget, ever...or maybe the ones looking will forget about it.

I didnt ready that part of the story. Most time kids are marched around the school in cuffs for all to see. Most times kid is called to the office and then walked out. kids are in class so nobody even sees anything

In general - though I like the teachers I have dealt with in the last 8 years - I still trust a somebody trained in the field more than them. Even with the caveat that some of the shrinks and such could not find their behind with both hands.
Now we created yet another example of the unintended side effects of actions like this:

Even if that kid is to return to school...
He was told by an authority figure to act one way
just to be punished by another one.
I don't think that his anger towards the teacher will deminish with what transpired, he will be like more careful as to how to express this frustration.
And the kid next to him. and so on and so forth.

May be he does not need to be in school. If your so angry you cant calm yourself down without thinking about killing someone you should not be allowed in a public school its a recipe for danger.

Granted that news articles are notoriously inaccurate (it's like the new form of the plague...) But I am venturing a guess that the situation could have been resolved with minor uproar if the teacher would have simply picked up the phone and called the parents.

and would yo still feel that way if the parents didnt address the problem and next week the kid comes in and stabs a kid? How many news reports would be out there about how this teacher ignored a dangerous sign and she should be fired or charged. How many threads on here would be started about how the police should have know this kid had issues and stopped this before he killed someone?

 

[ballen0351]

I don't know, but being escorted out of school is pretty darn punitive to me.
You know, one of them things that nobody will likely forget, ever...or maybe the ones looking will forget about it.

.

From another report he was not in school when he was arrested he was at home so none of the kids saw it.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...violent_stickfigure_drawing_made_in_scho.html

It was heart wrenching to see my... 11-year-old son walk out my front door in handcuffs," said the child's mother in a report Monday on Fox 31 News in Denve

 

[Big Don]

If they ever saw the stuff I drew in my note books back in my High School days....

I graduated in 90, and had a pocket knife of one kind or another, in my pocket everyday.
The only time I came close to getting into trouble for it, the a hole economics teacher told me to keep it in my pocket. I'd only taken it out to sort through the change in my pocket...

 

[Xue Sheng]

I graduated in 90, and had a pocket knife of one kind or another, in my pocket everyday.
The only time I came close to getting into trouble for it, the a hole economics teacher told me to keep it in my pocket. I'd only taken it out to sort through the change in my pocket...

Got you beat by over 10 years

And I carried a Buck Knife, folding hunter, to school.

In the sheath and absolutly no one cared.

 

[MJS]

No, I didn't. I was bullied on a regular basis, which some people might have seen as a warning flag of impending violence.

I was too. I did not let this turn me suicidal though. I spoke with my parents about any issues and it was dealt with. I was lucky....the school actually did something to protect their students from bully issues. OTOH, when I was in school it wasnt nearly as bad as it is today.



I did. I was big into comics at that age (up until around 18 or so), and did some very violent comic-book type art (along with writing stories to go with it). Some of these included depictions of demons and devils (ANOTHER warning sign!)

Absolutely not. But I'd argue that there's a HUGE difference between drawing a picture (or playing a violent video game for that matter... another "sign" that is often pointed to after an incident) and committing actual acts of violence (against other people or animals).

To me, the main point would be that a very quick investigation would have revealed this as a therapeutic technique advised by a mental health professional as a means of dealing with the child's issues. As such, an arrest was completely unwarranted.

Yup, and I watched cartoons such as the road runner, where the coyote was constantly falling off a cliff, getting blown up, and never tried anything I saw. I watched horror movies, and I never dressed up as Jason and ran after my sister or neighbors with a knife. Its all common sense, and were I to do that, it would be addressed by my parents, not passed off as kids being kids.

As I and a few others said....were nothing to be done, all the people bitching about the way the cops dealt with this, would be bitching that nothing was done. A no win situation all around. Fact is, this kid has isses, serious ones at that, and they need to be dealt with before this kid does what nobody thinks he could do....act on his threats.

 

[yorkshirelad]

In primary school, my Mother was brought into school bcause a group of us lads were always fighting. We were friends, but we would split our group into two and one group would battle against the other. We enjoyed it, the teachers knew we were doing it, but sometimes one or two of us would get injured. We'd get the "I told you so" speech and then get back at it another day.

One day, things got a little out of hand and and the majority of us got some kind of injury. I got a knee in the face, which resulted in a black eye.

The teachers had had enough. We were all made to stand at attention with our noses against the wall, down the corridor leading to the Head mistress' office, to await our parents. I remember seeing Mum walk past me towards the office, with a look of total disappointment on her face. The Headmistress recommended that we all go to the shool appointed psychiatrist, but our parents refused, "they're just being boys" was their answer, and they were right.

Then in high school, I had a habit of drawing a picture of one of my teachers. This particular teacher had a really weird face. He had a huge forehead and a small chin, which he would try to disguise with a ginger beard. I would draw his face, but I couldn't be bothered drawing the body, so I drew his head as if it had been cut off, with the blood dripping off of the neck line. He was a super nice guy and thought it was funny. Nowadays, I'd be in a padded cell after all this behaviour.

Society has gotten so PC and sue happy that everyone's afraid to do anything. This inturn leads to stress, which in turn can lead to violent outburst. I feel sorry for kids these days. They are prohibited from expressing themselves and as far as I'm concerned, it's unnatural!

 

[Big Don]

Got you beat by over 10 years

And I carried a Buck Knife, folding hunter, to school.

In the sheath and absolutly no one cared.

My dad, in the early 50's used to put his .410 in his locker so he could shoot rabbits on the way home. Some days, his teachers went with him.

 

[granfire]

From another report he was not in school when he was arrested he was at home so none of the kids saw it.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...violent_stickfigure_drawing_made_in_scho.html

It was heart wrenching to see my... 11-year-old son walk out my front door in handcuffs," said the child's mother in a report Monday on Fox 31 News in Denve

Oh good grief...

 

[Xue Sheng]

My dad, in the early 50's used to put his .410 in his locker so he could shoot rabbits on the way home. Some days, his teachers went with him.

Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, eat a lump of cold poison, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing "Hallelujah."

And no one at school cared

 

[granfire]

Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, eat a lump of cold poison, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing "Hallelujah."

And no one at school cared

You forgot walking twelve miles uphill in waist deep snow - both ways!
I had it way more rough than you!

 

[CanuckMA]

You forgot walking twelve miles uphill in waist deep snow - both ways!
I had it way more rough than you!

Piddle. I had to do that barefoot.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Piddle. I had to do that barefoot.

You had feet? Luxury!