11 year old boy arrested for drawing violent stick figure...

[Bill Mattocks]

Metal rulers, pencils, pens, scissors, heavy books, chairs, a coffee mug, rocks, a baseball, glass beakers…
Off the top of my head I can think of many things much more accessible and dangerous then a plastic knife in any classroom.

Heck it was like that after 9/11 when I was told I could not bring my eyeglass screwdriver onboard the aircraft, and then I saw a woman sitting on the plane knitting with huge stainless steel knitting needles. Yeah, common sense by the bushel. The problem with people is that they're mostly idiots. The bigger problem is the ones with authority and the firm belief that this causes brains to appear in their mostly-empty noggins.

 

[Flea]

Honestly, I don't fault the teacher all that much. Since Columbine et al, an image like that is a HUGE red flag. And as his teacher it's reasonable for her to take it a little personally. I think the principal is the one who went way too far. Where is the obvious middle ground? Call his parents, call the school counselor, call the school nurse, call the kid's therapist.

Now the kid and his family are probably traumatized by the whole thing, fostering a fully justified distrust of authority and some dysfunctional ways of working out problems and disagreements in the future. On one level, the teacher and principal did their jobs in a stellar way: the kid got an education, all right. The ripple effect is bound to be interesting.

 

[girlbug2]

I have always loved to draw, and it was probably around the age of 11 or so that I took an interest in what the kids around me were drawing in the margins and on the backs of their notebooks. Without exception, the boys at that age were drawing violent things. Some were more detailed than stick figures, and in fact many were very elaborate depictions of warfare in all its gory detail. Popular subjects seemed to be fanged and clawed monsters, shootings, bombs and explosions. This is just the kinds of drawings that I took note of casually glancing at the desks around me. Nobody seemed particularly alarmed back then, and as far as I know, these were just normal kids. Girls at that age draw unicorns and rainbows, boys draw guns.

What probably alarmed the teacher is that the drawing was depicting her specifically. Okay I get that, but is that really all so unusual? Isn't drawing in one's notebook at that age the visual equivalent of a diary? They work out their frustrations in drawings instead of words, so what? So if a kid wrote in his diary that he wished his teacher would drop dead, do we get alarmed and declare him mentally unstable? Is it a reason to suspend or expel him?

I can tell you, in Jr. High School there had been many times I wished certain teachers would drop dead! As well as siblings and even parents. But no, I had no actual intent to harm anybody and quickly forgot those wishes a minute later. Had I drawn a picture of my internal fantasies however, would that have been more of a cause for alarm than if I'd expressed it in a diary?

 

[MJS]

Wow...

http://www.kwgn.com/news/kdvr-arvad...-stick-figure-drawing-20110221,0,607158.story

To be honest, I'm not surprised that this happened. While the arrest may've been a bit over the top, I could see the cause for concern and possibly for calling the police. While this child may have an attention disorder, he's showing signs that could lead to a tragedy.

I also have to wonder if this child was in a special class, with other kids with similar behavior issues. It also seems to me that the doc who told this kid to do these drawings, wasn't thinking. I mean, did he honestly think that by doing this, it wouldn't raise a concern?

 

[Kacey]

Honestly, I don't fault the teacher all that much. Since Columbine et al, an image like that is a HUGE red flag. And as his teacher it's reasonable for her to take it a little personally. I think the principal is the one who went way too far. Where is the obvious middle ground? Call his parents, call the school counselor, call the school nurse, call the kid's therapist.

Unfortunately for this child, he's in Arvada, CO - perhaps 20 or 30 miles from Columbine. After Columbine, people here in Colorado began responding strongly to anything that suggested violence toward an actual person, and it's that part, I suspect, that was more of a problem than the violence of the drawing. After Columbine, a zero tolerance law was passed for weapons; at one point in time that included paper claws that kids would wear for Halloween.

Now the kid and his family are probably traumatized by the whole thing, fostering a fully justified distrust of authority and some dysfunctional ways of working out problems and disagreements in the future. On one level, the teacher and principal did their jobs in a stellar way: the kid got an education, all right. The ripple effect is bound to be interesting.

The child in this article follows in the tradition of the 8 year-old girl who grabbed her mother's lunch by mistake and very appropriately gave the paring knife she found to a teacher... who gave it to the office... where the principal, under legal obligations from the zero tolerance, mandatory reporting and expulsion laws, very regretfully expelled her - for one day, that being the minimum possible. Schools in Colorado are not only very cautious, but the use of common sense in such cases can cost school personnel their jobs.

Shortly after the 8 year-old girl episode, a coworker was on duty in our school cafeteria, when a girl in the cafeteria pulled a fork and knife (she said it looked more like a butter knife than anything else) out of her lunch bag to cut her chicken... and in violation of the law, she walked up to her quietly and told her to put the knife away before anyone could see it. Had she been caught in such a violation, it could have cost her not just her job, but her teaching certification, and thus her career. In the face of such considerations, I can understand those who report.

I also noticed in the article that the school had decided to drop the issue when the police forced the issue further: "At first, the school did not want to press charges, but changed their mind when police called them later that night."

 

[MA-Caver]

I drew war drawings in school as well... nobody raised a fuss.

We've become a nation of PC loving pansies because of the changes to our legal system which says a person can sue another for being offended by something someone said, did or acted or whatever. Don't offend anyone and everything will be alright.

Doesn't matter how this is resolved, the boy will be thinking about how bad it is to express himself from now on. Therapist or no he's not going to trust anyone to tell him what is the right thing to do, because do it and you get arrested.

No punitive damages will be able to rectify that.

 

[granfire]

Unfortunately for this child, he's in Arvada, CO - perhaps 20 or 30 miles from Columbine. After Columbine, people here in Colorado began responding strongly to anything that suggested violence toward an actual person, and it's that part, I suspect, that was more of a problem than the violence of the drawing. After Columbine, a zero tolerance law was passed for weapons; at one point in time that included paper claws that kids would wear for Halloween.



The child in this article follows in the tradition of the 8 year-old girl who grabbed her mother's lunch by mistake and very appropriately gave the paring knife she found to a teacher... who gave it to the office... where the principal, under legal obligations from the zero tolerance, mandatory reporting and expulsion laws, very regretfully expelled her - for one day, that being the minimum possible. Schools in Colorado are not only very cautious, but the use of common sense in such cases can cost school personnel their jobs.

Shortly after the 8 year-old girl episode, a coworker was on duty in our school cafeteria, when a girl in the cafeteria pulled a fork and knife (she said it looked more like a butter knife than anything else) out of her lunch bag to cut her chicken... and in violation of the law, she walked up to her quietly and told her to put the knife away before anyone could see it. Had she been caught in such a violation, it could have cost her not just her job, but her teaching certification, and thus her career. In the face of such considerations, I can understand those who report.

I also noticed in the article that the school had decided to drop the issue when the police forced the issue further: "At first, the school did not want to press charges, but changed their mind when police called them later that night."

So because life is rough and throws turds at the fan at times we castrate everybody from making common sense decisions and punishing people - even little ones - for doing the right thing, or not being automatons...

 

[Kacey]

So because life is rough and throws turds at the fan at times we castrate everybody from making common sense decisions and punishing people - even little ones - for doing the right thing, or not being automatons...

The nanny state is alive and well.

 

[MJS]

I drew war drawings in school as well... nobody raised a fuss.

We've become a nation of PC loving pansies because of the changes to our legal system which says a person can sue another for being offended by something someone said, did or acted or whatever. Don't offend anyone and everything will be alright.

Doesn't matter how this is resolved, the boy will be thinking about how bad it is to express himself from now on. Therapist or no he's not going to trust anyone to tell him what is the right thing to do, because do it and you get arrested.

No punitive damages will be able to rectify that.

While I see your point, I think there are other ways to express yourself, without going to this length. I mean, its just like the forum. Some people can disagree and leave it at that, while others have to resort to calling names, and taking personal shots. Is allowing this kid to express himself, via violence, the answer to his issues? IMO, no. When this kid gets older, is he going to actually follow thru with his 'expressions' and take it a step further from just a drawing? Who knows, he may take a gun, and start shooting people, yet will the doc say that he's just expressing himself?

These are the signs that I talk about, when discussions like this come up. Problem is, either nobody sees the signs, and in cases like this, when they do, nobody wants to act.

 

[MA-Caver]

While I see your point, I think there are other ways to express yourself, without going to this length. I mean, its just like the forum. Some people can disagree and leave it at that, while others have to resort to calling names, and taking personal shots. Is allowing this kid to express himself, via violence, the answer to his issues? IMO, no. When this kid gets older, is he going to actually follow thru with his 'expressions' and take it a step further from just a drawing? Who knows, he may take a gun, and start shooting people, yet will the doc say that he's just expressing himself?

These are the signs that I talk about, when discussions like this come up. Problem is, either nobody sees the signs, and in cases like this, when they do, nobody wants to act.

Is it a sign? I said that I myself have drawn war violence while I was this kids age
myself yet I haven't gone out to a clock tower and started shooting people now have I?
No-one can predict what any one person will do or is capable of. You, yourself could snap and go on a killing spree. Any one of us neh?
Sure the Columbine killers wrote out all their frustrations and angst and pain and everything else that made them snap and kill their classmates. Other shootings same ting. Why it happens? Why not before 20-40 years ago? Who is to say.
How many are slipping through the cracks? How many are getting by the system without notice?
IF this one kid is a potential killer then please prove it to me otherwise if he wants to express himself in the best way an 11 year old kid can then by all means. When he gets older he can learn more appropriate ways of expression. Patience raises the child, patience and understanding.. patience, understanding and (appropriate) love.

 

[MJS]

Is it a sign? I said that I myself have drawn war violence while I was this kids age
myself yet I haven't gone out to a clock tower and started shooting people now have I?
No-one can predict what any one person will do or is capable of. You, yourself could snap and go on a killing spree. Any one of us neh?
Sure the Columbine killers wrote out all their frustrations and angst and pain and everything else that made them snap and kill their classmates. Other shootings same ting. Why it happens? Why not before 20-40 years ago? Who is to say.
How many are slipping through the cracks? How many are getting by the system without notice?
IF this one kid is a potential killer then please prove it to me otherwise if he wants to express himself in the best way an 11 year old kid can then by all means. When he gets older he can learn more appropriate ways of expression. Patience raises the child, patience and understanding.. patience, understanding and (appropriate) love.

I have no kids, but lets assume that I did. The kids are always in a good mood, happy, laugh, friendly, engages in discussion with my wife and I. Suddenly, I begin to notice that they dont want to talk as much, they start to isolate themselves, perhaps dress a bit different than they usually do, etc. Is that just a kid going thru a phase? Or is it a sign that something is wrong?

Did you have the same issues this kid has? Or were you just drawing for the sake of drawing? I never drew pics that depicted violence. Did anyone else on here? Sorry, but something that may've been acceptable 20yrs ago may not be today and vice versa. Were there Columbine incidents 20-30yrs ago?

We will probably have to agree to disagree on this. IMO, what you're saying is probably what many people say. And then one day, when a tragedy happens, the next thing out of someones mouth will be, "Gee, I'm shocked that Johnny took a gun to school and shot 20 people. I never thought that he'd do something like that before. He didn't seem like a violent person."

Would it be acceptable if this kid 'expressed' himself, by killing animals? How about physically abusing a sibling? Sorry, I disagree....stuff like this is not acceptable behavior IMO.

 

[Blade96]

I know of a case where they punished a girl for having THE BOMB written on her schoolbag. They either didnt know or care that BOMB is a popular slang word for great. "That's great!" "That's the bomb!" Same thing, only these planks didn't care.

 

[Carol]

The parents in the community...as well as everyone here...knows exactly what happened BECAUSE of the arrest. Period.

Had the police not been involved, the parents would have been told nothing...except for stories told by other kids. What if you had a 10 or 11 year old that came home talking about a disturbed kid who drew a violent photo directed at someone in class? You called the school and....then what?

They don't say anything, yes? You don't get the straight story, even if you are a parent of a child in the same class, correct? You wouldn't know who it was, what the threat was, or to whom it was directed. I don't think we'd be hearing the criticism of it all being politically correct.

 

[Touch Of Death]

If we are all just going to sit and roll our eyes when teachers spot and act on alarming behavior, it is no wonder that violent actions in the school are still happening. Perhaps this child will get some real help.
Sean

 

[MJS]

The parents in the community...as well as everyone here...knows exactly what happened BECAUSE of the arrest. Period.

Had the police not been involved, the parents would have been told nothing...except for stories told by other kids. What if you had a 10 or 11 year old that came home talking about a disturbed kid who drew a violent photo directed at someone in class? You called the school and....then what?

They don't say anything, yes? You don't get the straight story, even if you are a parent of a child in the same class, correct? You wouldn't know who it was, what the threat was, or to whom it was directed. I don't think we'd be hearing the criticism of it all being politically correct.

If we are all just going to sit and roll our eyes when teachers spot and act on alarming behavior, it is no wonder that violent actions in the school are still happening. Perhaps this child will get some real help.
Sean

Exactly!! There've been incidents here in CT, in which something happened, and the parents raise hell, because they a) weren't notified, b) weren't notified in what they felt was a timely fashion, c) there were issues with notification systems, ie: emails, phone calls, textmessages, etc. Yet another case of damned if you do, damned if you dont. Do something, get **** on. Dont do something, get **** on. Hmm...doesnt sound like a win-win situation to me.

 

[granfire]

The parents in the community...as well as everyone here...knows exactly what happened BECAUSE of the arrest. Period.

Had the police not been involved, the parents would have been told nothing...except for stories told by other kids. What if you had a 10 or 11 year old that came home talking about a disturbed kid who drew a violent photo directed at someone in class? You called the school and....then what?

They don't say anything, yes? You don't get the straight story, even if you are a parent of a child in the same class, correct? You wouldn't know who it was, what the threat was, or to whom it was directed. I don't think we'd be hearing the criticism of it all being politically correct.

I know teachers are supposed to be trained professionals, but I have my doubts they can catch everything.
On the other hand, while the communication between kids and adults is somewhat iffy at times, among themselves it usually works pretty well.

If we are all just going to sit and roll our eyes when teachers spot and act on alarming behavior, it is no wonder that violent actions in the school are still happening. Perhaps this child will get some real help.
Sean

Well, to me it's like bringing out a tank to arrest a shoplifter. The responses have outgrown the reason.
yes, there have been school shootings. Or other bad things happening in school. but those are few and far between.
But we are getting swamped with crazy new regulations.

As far as the story goes, the kid was under the care of a psychologist. I would guess that this person was more qualified than the average police officer to deal with this sort of thing.
Personally I think that a lot of these aggression problems are rooted in our sedative lifestyles. There is not much room for young boys to just run and scream, maybe even have a little fight along the way without everybody going nuts. There is no real recess at school anymore, you know, were they just open the doors and let the kids play and talk with whom they want, a game of tag or red rover...
Much of that type of activities is relegated to the virtual world. But the feelings that creates have to be let out somewhere.

 

[MJS]

I know teachers are supposed to be trained professionals, but I have my doubts they can catch everything.
On the other hand, while the communication between kids and adults is somewhat iffy at times, among themselves it usually works pretty well.

How is communication amongst the kids, going to help the adults? Is a child going to add/remove parts of the story? Many times, parents find out about incidents from their kids, and freak out for the reasons I listed in my last post. Were I a parent in school, and something like this happened, I'd want to know from someone in the school or the police, not rely on getting 100% accurate info from my child.

Well, to me it's like bringing out a tank to arrest a shoplifter. The responses have outgrown the reason.
yes, there have been school shootings. Or other bad things happening in school. but those are few and far between.
But we are getting swamped with crazy new regulations.

I'd say situation depending. In a case like this, when you could be dealing with a serioius threat, I'd rather use the tank. Again, as I said before, if the police, school, doesnt address it, they get **** on.

As far as the story goes, the kid was under the care of a psychologist. I would guess that this person was more qualified than the average police officer to deal with this sort of thing.
Personally I think that a lot of these aggression problems are rooted in our sedative lifestyles. There is not much room for young boys to just run and scream, maybe even have a little fight along the way without everybody going nuts. There is no real recess at school anymore, you know, were they just open the doors and let the kids play and talk with whom they want, a game of tag or red rover...
Much of that type of activities is relegated to the virtual world. But the feelings that creates have to be let out somewhere.

This implies that the doctor is always right. I'll disagree.

 

[ballen0351]

Well, to me it's like bringing out a tank to arrest a shoplifter. The responses have outgrown the reason.
yes, there have been school shootings. Or other bad things happening in school. but those are few and far between.
But we are getting swamped with crazy new regulations.

.

Yeah and had the teacher and police just brushed it off and said oh kids being kids and next year this kid kills a bunch of people. You would be the same one screaming why didnt the police do anything they knew he had issues a year ago.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

there is not quite enough information to make an informed opinion on this I think.
when I was a kid I always drew violent cartoons..
tanks and battleships and warplanes and soldiers with guns and knives..
fight scenes with blood galore.... rambo all over the place...
my family was all military and my brother and cousins and i would often run around the hills behind our houses building forts, sneaking in supplies(candy, soda, sticks, matches etc.) have wars throwing dirt clods at each other, try to sneak up on each other and beat each other with sticks.... just stupid wild kid stuff..

but all that being said the things I never did...
was specify who was being "killed" in my drawings... it was generic... it was war type violence for the sake of wartype violence..
the one thing that gave me chills about this was that he specifically wrote that the teachers must die on his drawings, specified himself as the killer, and depicted their murders...
that seems to be another step above being fascinated with war, and violence... that seems to struggling with plans on actually following through.

I have no idea how to approach this, but if the kid is that disturbed that he is drawing himself murdering his teachers, he probably needs to be removed from the situation to begin with and go from there.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

In Canada, maybe. Here in the States-land of gun violence-the schools have a zero tolrance policy for weapons, and a plastic knife, is a knife, is a weapon.

And, since Columbine, I think, kids have been arrested for them, too.

yes but the religious tools of the Sikhs are not considered weapons and they are allowed to bring them to schools....??
plastic knives banned... geesh i think a sharpened pencil would be more deadly then a plastic knife.