100% _ing _un!

[chinaboxer]

and before this post gets sidetracked, what lineage you come from should not matter at all. why? because _ing _un concepts are based on specific concepts backed by solid physics! 1+1=2 no matter what lineage you come from it will always be the same.

now if you're talking about "techniques", then yes, lineage can matter, some shift more, some less, some put more weight in the front, some even, some back etc..but as i've said time and time again, _ing _un is concept based and not technique based. that means, as long as it follows the "detailed, well defined concepts at all times, that make _ing _un, so amazing, then it doesn't matter what technique you do. because it will ALWAYS be right.

the concepts of _ing _un, though cannot be compromised, they must be adhered to, just like physics, E = MC2, but if you fudge with any part of that equation, the whole thing doesn't work. that's exactly like _ing _un, you can't fudge with the precise concepts, you can't change them, or try to ADD to them. and that's why i'm trying to get to the "heart" of this discussion. what are the core concepts of _ing _un, that must be adhered to all the time in a well defined, well detailed manner, so that it's meaning is clear and concise to everyone from any lineage.

are you scared yet? i am! why? because i'm basically saying, forget the techniques, forget the forms, forget the drills and get to what is fundamentally THE most important thing in _ing _un, and that's the concepts, the "stuff" that makes the tan, fuk, bong, chun chui, chi sau etc...work, it's the stuff "behind" the movements, the stuff "supporting" the movements, the stuff that makes all that wonderful movement work.

 

[zepedawingchun]

Chinaboxer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I'm waiting. You didn't answer the question. You asked us to list the core concepts of Wing Chun. And some of us did. On the first page, I listed what I perceive are the core concepts of my Wing Chun. Then I asked you what you thought were the core concepts of Wing Chun. You babble on as to how to differentiate between a concept and a technique, staying true to the Wing Chun by following the concepts. But, where is your list, what do YOU consider are the core concepts of Wing Chun?

 

[chinaboxer]

Chinaboxer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I'm waiting. You didn't answer the question. You asked us to list the core concepts of Wing Chun. And some of us did. On the first page, I listed what I perceive are the core concepts of my Wing Chun. Then I asked you what you thought were the core concepts of Wing Chun. You babble on as to how to differentiate between a concept and a technique, staying true to the Wing Chun by following the concepts. But, where is your list, what do YOU consider are the core concepts of Wing Chun?

firstly, this isn't a contest, this is something that i think the _ing _un community needs to work on together. i also thought i made myself clear, i wanted to first get a sense of other chunner's perspectives and opinions on the concepts first. i also said to avoid being vague and try to define and refine your concepts so that they are not open to interpretation.

and i have spent the last year, every single week, video taping and posting for free, what i feel are the concepts of wing chun. i even have a large video category called "wing chun concepts" for you and everyone to see my perspective on the subject. over 100 videos on the subject some of them close to an hour long and i haven't even begun to scratch the surface. so please excuse my ignorance when you post a list of 10 concepts in a paragraph and then babble to me about you "waiting for my answer".

 

[chinaboxer]

1. Centerline theory
2. Immoveable elbow
3. Lin sil die dar theory
4. Economy of motion concept
5. Straight line attack
6. Trapping hands
7. Face to face concept
8. The four corners concept
9. Bridge hand concept
10. Triangle concept

Additionally,

Intercepting (jeet). Cutting. Natural wedge.

Stickyness (chi). Stay with what comes, follow through as it retreats, thrust forward as the hand is freed. Net of energy. Arrow drawn back in bow.

Flowing like Water.

Timing. Last second redirection after opponent’s commitment instead of stopping energy.

you wanted me to get to your list, and i think it's a great list! but do you see how it's not defined enough and how it can be taken in many different directions by beginning chunners? "immovable elbow", is that literally? does that mean don't ever move your elbow? and if so, then where should the elbow be? if it's immovable, how would you punch? i'm just using that as an example, as to the need to be clear, concise and defined for any beginner chunner.

let's start with your first one because it's a good one..
1. centerline theory

i like that because it's the very first concept taught in the form. so it's a great place for all of us to start with...so let's work together to help define the concept..hmm..

what is centerline theory? first thing to come to my mind is the imaginary vertical line or axis from your anus to the top of your head that separates your body into two halves and how that centerline relates to your partners centerline. so there's two centerlines. here's something that many chunner's don't think about, because we usually teach it by drawing the line on the outside of the front of our bodies, but is this right? is the centerline actually "inside" our bodies? this is something that needs to be figured out IMO. i could be wrong or right but it's a good place to start. now we should continue to discuss just this "centerline theory" to help define it, of course, everyone is encouraged to chime in and babble...

so what does "centerline theory" mean to you? let's set aside our differences and discuss it!

 

[wtxs]

what is centerline theory? first thing to come to my mind is the imaginary vertical line or axis from your anus to the top of your head that separates your body into two halves and how that centerline relates to your partners centerline. so there's two centerlines. here's something that many chunner's don't think about, because we usually teach it by drawing the line on the outside of the front of our bodies, but is this right? is the centerline actually "inside" our bodies? this is something that needs to be figured out IMO. i could be wrong or right but it's a good place to start. now we should continue to discuss just this "centerline theory" to help define it, of course, everyone is encouraged to chime in and babble...

so what does "centerline theory" mean to you? let's set aside our differences and discuss it!

The WC"s center line had always been the way you had outlined. People teaching and pass on the center line theory like the above statement in bold print is not doing us any favors, wondering where they learn that concept from and where their teacher learn it from.

 

[dungeonworks]

[/b]

thanks mate....isnt the bit in bold exactly what we are talking about here?
differences yet again within lineage.
i think sifu wants us to know takedaown defence actual groundwork so we can use our skill whilst on the ground ala mooks post top of this page and to escape if we need to.
as always the continuous advice on here is always so good and very helpful
matsu

Yes actually it is what the intent of the thread is....finding the rock solid universal conceptual foundation related to ALL _ing __un lineages. It would be easier and neater when spotting the differences but I am afraid i am not qualified to say one way or another on common threads that bind us together as Ip family is all I have trained in Wing Chun wise. I just know that in my past travels, grappling still interests me both for exercise and because I have been taken down from my blind side several times at bars, parties, and other places I should not have been. Being of a striking background, I would rather be on my feet in sport or self defense and have found that even limited wrestling can be great for that...especially since I am quite limited in Wing Chun skills and still reliant on what I already know.

.....I'm jonesing for the future day when typing is obsolete and that virtual reality stuff gets to the point we could be working some Chun instead of pecking a keyboard!!! Just think of how valuable this forum could be with such technology!

 

[chinaboxer]

.....I'm jonesing for the future day when typing is obsolete and that virtual reality stuff gets to the point we could be working some Chun instead of pecking a keyboard!!! Just think of how valuable this forum could be with such technology!

omg..that would roxxx..my head just exploded!

 

[chinaboxer]

The WC"s center line had always been the way you had outlined. People teaching and pass on the center line theory like the above statement in bold print is not doing us any favors, wondering where they learn that concept from and where their teacher learn it from.

good question, it probably has alot to do with how martial knowledge was passed down during those ancient times. we also have to understand that most students were not formally "educated". so much of the passed down material was through songs, symbols and simple analogies.

but this is "now", we can all read and write, we are all educated, we have access to the internet 24/7, we have access to every chunner in the world practically! so we should take advantage of this and use our intelligence to continue to improve the teachings of _ing _un, by focusing and defining the core concepts for "today's chunner".

i really want to try and keep this post on track though..so it's back to the "centerline theory" and what that means to chunners and how the concept can be explained in a concise, detailed manner so that even a person just starting _ing _un can understand it.

so far we have...

centerline theory - "the centerline is the imaginary vertical line or axis that runs from the tailbone to the top of the head" is this right or wrong? how can it be defined even more? etc..let's figure this one out!

 

[mook jong man]

Settle in people , go and grab a beer or a cup of tea this is going to be a long one .
These are the things I think that are very important.

SINK YOUR WEIGHT

You must lower your center of gravity , bending the knees until they are just over your toes.
This is an approximation , it will vary slightly due to differences in individual physiology , different limb lengths, proportions etc.

Standing up too high in the stance results in loss of force in attack and defence and lessens stability.
You might as well be fighting while wearing roller skates.

STAY UPRIGHT

Keeps the body mass centered and able to move in any direction whilst staying balanced and non committed.
Maintains structure , for example once the head starts to lean forward the integrity of the structure is compromised and you could be dragged down into a knee strike for instance.

FACE THE DIRECTION YOU ARE STRIKING

Facing the direction you are striking enables you to put your full body mass behind the strike.
Think of pushing a heavy object like a car , you stand behind it and push it with your body square on , not sideways or twisted.

TILT THE PELVIS UP AND FORWARD

But not to the point where your quads tense up and the cheeks of your **** clench.
This helps to curl under your tail bone and straighten your spine , it also stops the hips unlocking and unites upper and lower body.
Any unlocking between lower and upper body will result in a decrease of your power.

RELAXATION

This is a hard one to describe because to a great extent it is based on your own feeling , and depending on your time in Wing Chun there are varying degrees of relaxation.

To me it means a letting go of muscular effort and tension , just letting the limb rotate from the joint without any friction , and a calm state of mind focusing on the task at hand.

The limbs are approaching the state of being like a dead weight but imbued with a forward intent.
So if you can try to execute all your Wing Chun movements with this dead weight feeling in your limbs then you will definitely be on the right track.

Apart from Chi Sau and Sil Lum Tao there are specific exercises to help develop this relaxation , such as the chicken wing exercise which is basically just rotating the elbows in circles etc thats for the shoulders , and leg raising for relaxing the muscles around the hip joint.

The other ways to develop relaxation are by actually touching the muscle group with your other hand whilst performing Sil Lum Tao or while you are performing the movement under load from your partner.

Feel the muscles of your pectorals , biceps , and shoulders when your partner is pressing down on your Tan Sau , will them to soften and relax.

Do the same thing when someone is leaning on your Bong Sau , physically touch your muscles with your other hand and will them to soften and relax , use the absolute bare minimum of muscular effort to maintain the angles in your arm.

If he is using too much and you are tensing up , tell him to back off on the force until you can relax again , as your skill increases you will be able to resist more and more pressure while staying relaxed.
There are many other ways to work on relaxation these are just some of them.

Continuing on with the relaxation theme , if you are getting thrown around in Chi Sau that can be an indicator of either being too high in your stance , in that case sink down.

Or more often than not it is a relaxation issue , instead of your arms and shoulders being like shock absorbers or being a bit springy and yielding like bamboo , they are more like iron bars bolted on to a big block of wood.

You are giving the opponent levers to effect your posture and stance , you might as well superglue big bloody handles on to your chest and say " Here grab these and throw me around ".

ULTIMATE OR OPTIMUM ANGLE

Theoretically speaking , this is the best angle of the arms for attack and defence.
Due to physiology this also varies slightly from person to person , one of the purposes of the Sil Lum Tao form , in particular the Tan Sau extention and the Fook Sau / Wu Sau sequence is to help us find our own individual optimum angle that is correct for our body.

But generally in our lineage it is considered to be approximately two fists distance from the body .

This is where the angles of the arms will have the most resistance to an outside force , whilst requiring the least amount of muscular force to maintain but still being able to generate force in attack.

In attacking motions such as punching the angle will expand , execute the strike , relax , and then the arm returns back to the optimum angle again.
Same thing with the legs when kicking.

CENTERLINE THEORY

This is something that people really over complicate , what with the mother lines , original centerlines , everything but the damn clothes line.
The opening sequence of the Sil Lum Tao form going down into the double Chit Sau's and up to the double Dai Sau's , where the wrists cross that defines your centerline.

Now , whether you think of the center line going through the person you are attacking or projected on the front of him is irrelevant in my opinion.

Just imagine a center line running down the front and center of your body and GUARD IT.
Now imagine a vertical line running down the center of your opponents body , project that line on to him , doesn't matter if he is standing side on to you or even if he has his back to you or pirouettes like a ballerina , the line doesn't move.

Now step forward and hit the bastard on that line.
Any strike originating from you off your center line will not serve the double purpose of guarding you and attacking at the same time.
You will also not be making the most of your force by having your body mass behind your strike.

Now there will be some motions in Wing Chun where you have pivoted , and your hands are off your center line but focused at your opponents center line such as using your Tan Sau to counterpierce your opponents straight punch , as well as some motions where you have pivoted and your hands are still on your center as projected out in front of you from square on , such as the Garn Sau or redirecting force to the side with a Seung Bong .

If your strike is aimed somewhere other than the opponents center line , your opponent will not absorb the full force of the blow , some of your force will be wasted as the opponents body will slightly rotate on its axis in effect going with the strike instead of it penetrating and going through his body.

Similar to the way a hanging heavy bag will rotate if it is not hit in the center by your Wing Chun center line punch.
Or another analogy would be the way it is easier for a Wing Chun practitioner to pivot when a force is coming at him but directed off his center line.

NON TELEGRAPHIC STRIKING

This sort of ties in directly with economy of movement and the center line.
There are no pre movements in Wing Chun , no chambering or drawing back of the strike prior to execution.
From the stance and the guard strikes originate from the center line and travel in a straight line to the opponents center line with no wasted motion.

With the guard up the lead hand is already in the best angle for attack and defence and only short sharp economical movements are needed to attack and defend.

Similarly with the legs , when sunk down in your stance the legs are bent and in effect they are already chambered and ready for action.
Same as the arms , the angle of the legs will provide maximum resistance for the least muscular effort.

Consider the example of a very large man rushing at me from just out of kicking range , if I were to attempt to raise my leg and chamber the kick first by closing the angle of my leg , in an attempt to get more power in a one -two motion , then there is a very good chance he will close in first and crush the angle of my kicking leg back into my body and throw me off my stance.

By contrast raising my leg to kick with the leg in the optimum angle already is economical and fast with no telegraphic movement and has a lot of resistance against the incoming force.

As long as I have a good stance and get my timing right as to when to thrust my heel into him , the effect for him is rather like running into the end of a metal pole stuck out horizontally from a brick wall.

There was one more thing I was going to talk about concerning infusing your techniques with mental force , forward force etc but I think I will leave it as my brain is starting to hurt and I need a cup of tea and a good lie down.

 

[Domino]

What I gathered from Master Gracie and Master Kwok's comments of their time together is that they were looking more at adapting eachother's
"adaptable similarities" moreso than creating a hybrid style. I have heard many higher level Wing Chunner's state that a good understanding of Wing Chun will make all other arts trained that much better. Heck, I will further my own statement by saying it has improved my posture and economy of motion at work on an automotive assembly line....and I am still a beginner in my own right as I have not a complete understanding of Sil Lim Tao, and I am not hurrying that either (Long story but i am still "Un-Karate'ing and Un-Kickboxing" myself). To a small degree, I even use some Wing Chun principles in hunting deer as well when it comes to movement and economizing my motions and staying rooted in my archery.

I am sure I typed that a bit generally as I am unsure how to articulately describe what I am intending to convey with my post, but hopefully that makes sense on some level. LOL

Yes definately makes sense, we sound like we are in a similar place with our learning.
Yeah maybe wasn't for creating a hybrid, but for instance training against techniques like someone trying to shoot, as we were doing last night in class

 

[zepedawingchun]

firstly, this isn't a contest, this is something that i think the _ing _un community needs to work on together. i also thought i made myself clear, i wanted to first get a sense of other chunner's perspectives and opinions on the concepts first. i also said to avoid being vague and try to define and refine your concepts so that they are not open to interpretation.

Oh, I see how it is. We give you ours but you won’t give us yours, we have to go search for it.

and i have spent the last year, every single week, video taping and posting for free, what i feel are the concepts of wing chun. i even have a large video category called "wing chun concepts" for you and everyone to see my perspective on the subject. over 100 videos on the subject some of them close to an hour long and i haven't even begun to scratch the surface. so please excuse my ignorance when you post a list of 10 concepts in a paragraph and then babble to me about you "waiting for my answer".

Over 100 videos, are you saying you have over 100 concepts? I didn’t ask to see your videos, with titles like “Brandon’s Journey, Passing the Basketball, Pinning the Shoulder, Wing Chun and Boxing Comparison”. I ask to see an idea of what you thought the WC concepts were in black and white, like the rest of us did.

you wanted me to get to your list, and i think it's a great list! but do you see how it's not defined enough and how it can be taken in many different directions by beginning chunners? "immovable elbow", is that literally? does that mean don't ever move your elbow? and if so, then where should the elbow be? if it's immovable, how would you punch? i'm just using that as an example, as to the need to be clear, concise and defined for any beginner chunner. !

I didn’t ask you to get to my list, I said I gave you my list. I asked you to list yours. So instead of listing yours, you list mine. No wonder the WC community can’t agree on anything.

let's start with your first one because it's a good one..

centerline theory. . . . . . . . so what does "centerline theory" mean to you?

I think my definition of the centerline is a bit different than yours. Its an imaginary line starting at the top of your head, in the middle or center, running down thru the body, to the floor (because I own the space I stand on. Also when facing an opponent directly, they can enter from that space between the legs, so I must protect it too). Projecting outward in two directions, forward and backward, from that line is a flat plane, much like a plane of glass, which divides the body in two halves, left and right.

 

[Dantian]

To me _ing __un is simply all about one word.... EFFICIENCY. But how we achieve this effiecncy is a deep question.

Let's look from a scientific viewpoint. Everybody must grasp and learn the 3 universally unescapable laws of physics that Isaac Newton explained. If you exsist in this universerse you must obey these 3 laws. All 3 are crucial, but to us in a combat context, the 2nd and 3rd Law can help exlplain some things we do.

Newtons Second Law of Physics

• Force = Mass x Accelleration

- This is the definition of force

- The faster a mass is accelerating in a direction the greater the force is to start it moving or to stop it from moving.

- The bigger the mass, the greater the force is required to start movement of it.

Newtons Third Law of Physics

• For every force one body exerts on to a second body, the second body exerts an equal force in the oppostite direction.

What does this have to do with us __unners?


In short EVERYTHING! This is where our concepts can be drawn from.

Whether it was intended or not by our ancient masters, _ing __un strives to manipulate and make use of our, physiology anatomy and body mechanics (more than any other fighting style or system) to make use of Newtons laws resulting in a devastating combat system. This is what seperates us from the others.

Here's the body mechanics we use:

Centreline Theory​

In a nutshell, this is how to.​

- Move a force (newtons 2nd law) from your body (fist, heel, elbow or knife etc) from point A to point B the quickest.​

- Impart the most force (newtons 2nd law) into an opponent i.e inflict the most damage. If you land a strike into an opposing centreline; that person's body will absorb more of that force resulting in more damge or effect.​

The bi products of the centrline theory are efficiency, economy of moment.​

Relaxed and turned off muscles​

Yes it's a technique, but it's a crucial one. This what most are striving to achieve and have the most trouble with in training.

If you punch somebody while you are tensed up, the wave of rebounding force on impact will be sent back through your body, thus making your strike less effective. This the 3rd law or Newton in action.

But, if you relax and turn off the joints and mucles, you povide less of a vessle for that wave of force to come back into. All your energy is sent into them to absorb and very minimal rebounding force is sent back into you.

Relaxing also conserves energy and prevents muscle fatigue.

Striking as one body not just the fist or foot​

This is where Sil Lim Tao structure come in. Hitting the opponent with your body mass behind your strike. Alligning the joints and the body structure.

This is making use of Newtons second law, because what the Sil Lim Tao structure is training us to do is to get our body mass behind whatever it is we are throwing or accelerating towards our opponent (foot, fist, elbow, knives etc). More mass moving results in more force. More force hitting an opponent is what the whole aim is, especially in our quest for efficiency right?

Build Sensitivity to redirect and opponets force​

We should be all trained to know that when defending meeting force directly with force is bad. If you can imagine 2 cars driving head on at each other and how 2 forces meeting maxinises the force energy relased on impact.

We don't want that. This why our defensive moves shear, angle and deflect off an opposing strike. We don't want to absorb the full energy force into our structure. We angle and redierct the force of their attack. Whist simultaneously attacking.




In summary my point is that all that unites common ground among all lineages of _ing __un is effieciency (as broad as that is).

But we do this because every single form in _ing _un is about maximising and refining the laws of physics, by using our body mechanics to effectively use in combat situations to efficiently end your opponent. Thats all.

 

[Poor Uke]

Whether it was intended or not by our ancient masters, _ing __un strives to manipulate and make use of our, physiology anatomy and body mechanics (more than any other fighting style or system) to make use of Newtons laws resulting in a devastating combat system. This is what seperates us from the others.
.........
Relaxing also conserves energy and prevents muscle fatigue.

........

Striking as one body not just the fist or foot​

.........

Build Sensitivity to redirect and opponets force​

We should be all trained to know that when defending meeting force directly with force is bad. If you can imagine 2 cars driving head on at each other and how 2 forces meeting maxinises the force energy relased on impact.

.............

But we do this because every single form in _ing _un is about maximising and refining the laws of physics, by using our body mechanics to effectively use in combat situations to efficiently end your opponent. Thats all.

Non of this is unique to Wing Chun.

Many styles incorportate efficiency of movement, relaxation, deflection, sensitivity, striking using the whole body......

It is a conceit by many _unners that only there style contains these elements. It is a dellusion.

All movements (at non relativistic speeds) obey Newton's laws of motion, _ing _un is no different because it does!!!!!

You need to get out more.......

 

[mook jong man]

Non of this is unique to Wing Chun.

Many styles incorportate efficiency of movement, relaxation, deflection, sensitivity, striking using the whole body......

It is a conceit by many _unners that only there style contains these elements. It is a dellusion.

All movements (at non relativistic speeds) obey Newton's laws of motion, _ing _un is no different because it does!!!!!

You need to get out more.......

They may not be unique to Wing Chun , and from the point of view of other styles , as far as they are concerned what they are doing in the context of their system might be considered efficiency of movement , relaxed , using deflection , sensitivity , and striking using the whole body.

But from a Wing Chun perspective they may not be adhering to these principles as we would use them within the frame work of Wing Chun.

Efficiency of movement to a TKD person might be a jumping side kick to the face , but to me it is a low heel kick to the knee with my leg maintaining the angle from the floor to the target .

For example boxers are relaxed , lots of martial arts people are relaxed , but in Wing Chun it mainly means relaxing your muscles , keeping the arms at a fixed angle , and just rotating them from one joint until they are needed to strike and then back to the fixed angle again.

The same with the rest of the things , what one person may consider to be a deflection in their style we in Wing Chun might still consider it to be a hard block by our terms of reference.

 

[HonoluluDan]

Aloha everyone, I am enjoying this post! Let's see where we are the same, instead of finding discrepancies in our art.
I might be wrong, but I don't believe anyone has mentioned the concept of "forward energy". i.e. in chi sao, if I am not projecting enough forward energy, I will be run over. In sparring, if I meet an attack with anything but forward energy, i.e pushing directly down, directly to the side, and my opponent is using forward energy, his attack will merely come back around or over or through, and it's lights out. Now I am not saying to use excessive force, but as long as you feel that my energy is a direct threat to you, it must be addresed and dealt with.
And now I am off to go train.........Aloha!

 

[mook jong man]

Aloha everyone, I am enjoying this post! Let's see where we are the same, instead of finding discrepancies in our art.
I might be wrong, but I don't believe anyone has mentioned the concept of "forward energy". i.e. in chi sao, if I am not projecting enough forward energy, I will be run over. In sparring, if I meet an attack with anything but forward energy, i.e pushing directly down, directly to the side, and my opponent is using forward energy, his attack will merely come back around or over or through, and it's lights out. Now I am not saying to use excessive force, but as long as you feel that my energy is a direct threat to you, it must be addresed and dealt with.
And now I am off to go train.........Aloha!

Well this is another thing that can be quite confusing for people.
Forward force or forward intent ? , they are not the same thing.
Exactly how much force to use ?

Forward force is springy force , mentally and physically located in the elbow and driven from the triceps against the attacking limb.
In the case of centreline attacks our forward force and forward intent will combine to focus at the same point , the opponents center line.

In the case of circular attacks where we have pivoted to intercept the attacking limb coming from the side , our forward force will be directed at the limb , putting our hand technique and our body mass in the proper position in relation to the direction of his force in order to offer the strongest structure.

This means we will be directing our forward force not at his center line but at the direction his force is coming from , once we make contact if the opponent were to suddenly disengage his arm from ours then our arm will automatically take the shortest path back to attacking his center line , that is projecting mental focus or forward intent.

With the amount of force to use , ideally it would be just enough to equalise the opponents force with out your angles collapsing.
Sigung Tsui Seung Tin's top female student told me it was about the same sort of force you use as when you are leaning your elbow on a table top.

 

[wtxs]

Aloha everyone, I am enjoying this post! Let's see where we are the same, instead of finding discrepancies in our art.
I might be wrong, but I don't believe anyone has mentioned the concept of "forward energy". i.e. in chi sao, if I am not projecting enough forward energy, I will be run over. In sparring, if I meet an attack with anything but forward energy, i.e pushing directly down, directly to the side, and my opponent is using forward energy, his attack will merely come back around or over or through, and it's lights out. Now I am not saying to use excessive force, but as long as you feel that my energy is a direct threat to you, it must be addresed and dealt with.
And now I am off to go train.........Aloha!

That would be the Newton's 2nd law my man. Since we all have different take on various WC concepts, would you mind share your interpretation of "forward energy" and perhaps some examples in application? Thanks.

 

[cwk]

not re-chambering before every strike and just striking from the position we are in has to be one of the key concepts in my book. Directly tied to this is short range force which I don't think any other art emphasizes to the extent that wing chun does.

 

[izeqb]

Sigung Tsui Seung Tin's top female student told me it was about the same sort of force you use as when you are leaning your elbow on a table top.

Could you please elaborate this?

 

[HonoluluDan]

That would be the Newton's 2nd law my man. Since we all have different take on various WC concepts, would you mind share your interpretation of "forward energy" and perhaps some examples in application? Thanks.

Forward energy/intent, if we were to chi sao, I should be putting up enough physical force for you to feel resistance, but not enough for you to spring off of my energy. Now if you were to suddenly drop your hands, my forward intent would shoot my hands out towards you.

I apologize if I am not eloquent enough to describe what I am thinking, for it has been a long, hot day and I have been cooling off with some inebriating beverages.........:ultracool
And thank you Mr Mook, I believe what I am referring to is forward intent.
Aloha!