Youth Black Belts

[terryl965]

Just for the record I have brought up my three boys Zachary is 15 and has been a BB since the age of 9,so has Caleb and Michael. All three are Poom rank except Zachary he is consider a Dan know. I will be happy to discuss them at any length and everybody is entitle to there opinions. The door is open and I am ready to reply on all topics about them and me and my wife.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

To put this discussion back on topic...

To a great degree, the blackbelt is way over emphasized. All that a black belt means is that the wearer is proficient in the basic curriculum. Period.

If your school is a sport focused school, then the material will emphasize techniques that are effective in sport taekwondo.

If your school is a hardcore SD school, it will emphasize those aspects.

If it is like most schools, and has a broad scope, with a bit of everything, then a black belt student should be proficient in the full geub grade curriculum.

If your school differentiates between junior black belts and adult blackbelts, then the student should be proficient with the technique as tested for that level of belt.

The main issue with a black belt is that very few people recognize the distinction between proficient with the basics and master. If you wear a blackbelt, you are assumed to either be a good fighter or to think that you are a good fighter.

Parents muddy the issue even further because they want to be advocates for their children, but often do not understand the martial arts well enough to do so appropriately.

Unscrupulous instructors muddy the waters because they prey on the desire to have a blackbelt and will hand them out in exchange for cash.

It was said here by someone else that if you need to hold your mommy's hand from the parking lot to the dojo, then you are not ready for a blackbelt. I cannot take credit for this, but I fully agree with it.

Lastly, many do not wish to hear that their rank or that of their child is meaningful only within the school where they train, regardless of the student's age.

Daniel

 

[Grenadier]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

It's very difficult to know exactly what someone's manner or "tone" is, when we're looking at written text. Sometimes we just need to step back for a bit, and think twice before hitting the "submit reply" button.

I don't have a problem with people debating this topic, since different schools can hold different ranking systems, and that there can certainly be merits for each particular system, as long as the instruction is good.

Debate is encouraged, but keep it civil.

That being said...

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

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Feel free to use the Ignore feature to ignore members whose posts you do not wish to read (it is at the bottom of each member's profile). Thank you.

Ronald Shin
MT Supermoderator

 

[NPTKD]

I would like to once again for the record state " I am in the right on this subject!" :angel:

 

[miguksaram]

I would like to once again for the record state " I am in the right on this subject!" :angel:

Yes, the statement duly noted and ignored. hahaha But hey..still luv ya:ultracool

 

[TKD_Father]

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Please keep the discussion at a mature, respectful level. Please review our sniping policy http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71377.

Feel free to use the Ignore feature to ignore members whose posts you do not wish to read (it is at the bottom of each member's profile). Thank you.

Ronald Shin
MT Supermoderator

Finally, something useful. Thank you for that, and especially the location of the Ignore Feature!

 

[just2kicku]

I'm totally not judging anyone or anything. What people are doing here is attacking MY SON and his accomplishments, not debating THE ISSUE.

If you don't think a 10 year old should hold a Black Belt then express those opinions, do not start asking what tournaments MY SON has been in.

If you think someone should work 6 days a week to get a Black Belt then say that, don't ACCUSE ME of overworking MY SON.

Mr. Stoker posts a lot of pointed stuff about MY SON and not the topic issue, then says "oh, please don't take it the wrong way". The internet is great about that.

I will welcome ANY discussions regarding whether a 10 year old is too young to be a black belt. What I will NOT continue to do is accept attacks on my child. HE IS NOT THE TOPIC HERE!

Mr. Stoker - you should be ashamed. Hiding behind the "oh well I didn't mean it that way" shield. I will not attack you, your school and especially your children. I'm not like you.

A MartialTalk Community dedicated to the Polite and Professional exploration of the Traditional Korean Martial Arts

So far I haven't seen much to promote "Community" here at all, let along Polite or Professional.

10 years old is too young for a black belt. They are neither mature enough or strong enough to help teach a class.

And for the record, you are the one that started bragging about your son. Terry just asked you a few questions. He's a good tournament fighter, fine, that's great. In my opinion, still too young to be a black belt.

 

[TKD_Father]

Nobody would expect a 10 year old to teach a class. Maybe help some of the younger belts with forms, self-defense, basic stances or kicks. But teaching a class would be out of the question.

Is that part of the requirement of being a Black Belt? To teach class? To participate in regional tournaments?

The OP had 5 criteria set out, I was trying to apply them to my situation. I see that by doing that I made a huge mistake.

Each school has it's own interpretation of what Black Belt means. Unfortunately, TKD has been so bastardized in the US (as well as around the world) that there isn't a standard any longer.

you are the one that started bragging about your son. Terry just asked you a few questions.

I will no longer discuss my son here. Mr. Stoker knows my feelings regarding what he has posted here.

 

[terryl965]

Please everyone let TKD_Father alone in regard to his son. It is a issue that is over and behind us, we need to get back to the topic at hand.

So here goes, I whole heartly endrose the poom rank of a child, there is a limitation to the age but that is everybody own views. I am sure I will never have any child under the age of ten every again, the only one that was is my oldest and that was like a month before his B-day. My feeling is a 4-9 just is not ready for it, I know not much difference between 9 and 10 but in the tournaments we do the break is at 6-7, 8-9,10-11,12-13,14-17 and then 18-32 and so on. So that is why I believe a ten year old is and should be the youngest. Not saying I am right just that is my beliefs.

Now here is the kicker for me at 17 they re-test for a dan rank which include alot more SD type to the system. My school so my rules, all my parents are aware of this by the way. Let move in the right direction here.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Nobody would expect a 10 year old to teach a class. Maybe help some of the younger belts with forms, self-defense, basic stances or kicks. But teaching a class would be out of the question.

Is that part of the requirement of being a Black Belt? To teach class?

Requirement to test? No. But once a student has a black belt, they are generally expected to take on some level of teaching duties beyond just class warmups.

To participate in regional tournaments?

While there are schools that have requirements both before and after blackbelt, they are in the minority. Not all schools have a sport focus, and even those that do usually do not require you to compete in order to have a blackbelt. I do not know of any organizations that require that; the Kukkiwon certainly does not. So if a school has that requirement, they are doing that on their own.

Each school has it's own interpretation of what Black Belt means. Unfortunately, TKD has been so bastardized in the US (as well as around the world) that there isn't a standard any longer.

Many would consider ten year old blackbelts an example of that.

When I was growing up, ten year old blackbelts were almost unheard of and were generally very exceptional kids.

What has made the issue such a hot button is that school owners figured out that black belts for kids was a money maker and then gave them out like candy.

Unfortunately, this spoils the party for the truly exceptional kids; if nobody fails, then everyone is an A+ student.

The main thing that most of us have against the idea of kiddie belts has nothing to do with the kids and everything to do with schools that use the belt system as a money maker at the expense of the student.

Not all schools with child BB's are doing this, but many do.

Daniel

 

[Gizmo]

FWIW, I am much more impressed with a skilled kid wearing coloured belt than with any Poom at 9 or 10. I spent some time with Korean kids and they were all Poom belts, often 2nd and 3rd. Some of the nicest kids around. They did great demonstrations as a team, they worked like a clockwork, but none of them really impressed me with individual technique. I'm a freestyler when it comes to many things, but here in our school it takes 6 to 8 years to get to 1st Dan. Yes, we could theoretically make it quicker. The question is - what for? Call me old-fashioned, call me close-minded, but I don't believe in producing 10 years old black (or Poom) belts in 3 years. For me it is one of the reasons why TKD is looked down onto by other styles. My 10 years old students usually get to green belt or so after 3 years. They have lots of time to perfect the basics, the technical stuff related to their grade and to get to our objective, which is to have a good ADULT black belt.

 

[Twin Fist]

you need to back the heck up off Terry Stoker

he is the nicest guy on here.

me? i am the designated jerk

here is an example:

I dont care if your son is Bruce lee Jr. He is 10. he has as much business wearing a BB as I do claiming a PHD

 

[Gorilla]

Twin fist please refer to the TKD ADDICT thread

 

[Carol]

Just an observation

The thread starts with a poster (Gorilla) enquiring about child black belts. Following his post is a robust discussion about child black belts, including several points that are critical of the subject.

Therefore, it logically follows that the discussion is going to be about child black belts, and the discussion is going to be quite rigorous. If someone is going to interject their teacher as an example, then their teacher becomes part of the discussion. If someone wants to interject their student as an point at issue, then their student becomes part of the point at issue. And yes, if someone wants to interject their child as an example, then their child becomes part of the point at issue.

TKD_Father, welcome to MT and congratulations on your son's accomplishment. Regardless of what any of us think of child black belts, it is refreshing to hear about kids that are training and otherwise taking on healthy habits, instead of some of the alternatives that kids are getting in to these days . The debate over child black belts has been around for as long as there have been child black belts, and it is one that is going to continue to rage for some time. However, you stepped in to a very hot debate. Had you started a seperate thread simply saying that your son earned his black belt and that you were proud of him, I think you would have received a round of applause...and I think one of the loudest cheers for you and your son would be from Terry, who has 3 boys of his own in TKD.

I think Daniel mentioned that we appear to be a clique is not just because some of us know each other in reallife...its because we've gotten in to knock-down-drag-out fights with one another or helped each other through rotten situations and still managed to remain friends in the end.

Back to the mats...

 

[Gorilla]

Carol you have 10 thousand posts go with out delay to the TKD addict thread and give us your testimonial

 

[Gorilla]

Gizmo you should go to the TKD ADDICT thread without delay

 

[ATC]

Just an observation

The thread starts with a poster (Gorilla) enquiring about child black belts. Following his post is a robust discussion about child black belts, including several points that are critical of the subject.

Therefore, it logically follows that the discussion is going to be about child black belts, and the discussion is going to be quite rigorous. If someone is going to interject their teacher as an example, then their teacher becomes part of the discussion. If someone wants to interject their student as an point at issue, then their student becomes part of the point at issue. And yes, if someone wants to interject their child as an example, then their child becomes part of the point at issue.

TKD_Father, welcome to MT and congratulations on your son's accomplishment. Regardless of what any of us think of child black belts, it is refreshing to hear about kids that are training and otherwise taking on healthy habits, instead of some of the alternatives that kids are getting in to these days . The debate over child black belts has been around for as long as there have been child black belts, and it is one that is going to continue to rage for some time. However, you stepped in to a very hot debate. Had you started a seperate thread simply saying that your son earned his black belt and that you were proud of him, I think you would have received a round of applause...and I think one of the loudest cheers for you and your son would be from Terry, who has 3 boys of his own in TKD.

I think Daniel mentioned that we appear to be a clique is not just because some of us know each other in reallife...its because we've gotten in to knock-down-drag-out fights with one another or helped each other through rotten situations and still managed to remain friends in the end.

Back to the mats...

Show off!!! :asian:

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I think Daniel mentioned that we appear to be a clique is not just because some of us know each other in reallife...its because we've gotten in to knock-down-drag-out fights with one another or helped each other through rotten situations and still managed to remain friends in the end.

While the observation is true, twas not I who made it. But thank you

Daniel

 

[miguksaram]

Nobody would expect a 10 year old to teach a class. Maybe help some of the younger belts with forms, self-defense, basic stances or kicks. But teaching a class would be out of the question.

Why? If they are competent enough to have a black belt on why couldn't they teach a class?

We have had our brown belts and jr. black belts run youth classes. Granted we had an adult black belt on hand to watch over to make sure things went ok, but over all the kids were the ones that conducted the class. This was part in due to the fact they we knew they were competent enough at their rank level to run the class, else they would not have gotten to the level.

I'm not saying 10 year olds should be unsupervised when teaching, but they should be able to conduct a full class from beginning to end at a black belt level.

Is that part of the requirement of being a Black Belt? To teach class? To participate in regional tournaments?

For us it is. The canidates for black belts must log in teaching or assistant teaching time in order to test. They must also participate in tournaments be it local, regional or interschool.

 

[TKD_Father]

miguksaram I hope you won't take this the wrong way... But one of the things I checked out prior to choosing a school for my son was who the instructors would be.

Having Brown belts teach is one sign of a McDojang. Please don't get me wrong. I'm definitely NOT calling your school a McD! I had read a lot of information prior to choosing my son's school and "students teaching" was one of the red flags.

My son doesn't teach class. He is called upon to assist when the belts break into groups for forms or self-defense. This is after the instructor has gone through the material at least twice.