Youth Black Belts
- Thread starter Gorilla
- Start date
NPTKD
Brown Belt
I would like to give you a 1st gup in spelling!
NPTKD
Brown Belt
Okay... I have come up with my own list for Poom/ BB
1. Must have facial hair. (male or female)
2. Must have lost to Mark Lopez
3. Must have the ability to take a joke.
4. On a minutes notice must be able to travel to far off distance lands to lose to well known fighters
5. and finally the most important... a parent who thinks you are ready!
1. Must have facial hair. (male or female)
2. Must have lost to Mark Lopez
3. Must have the ability to take a joke.
4. On a minutes notice must be able to travel to far off distance lands to lose to well known fighters
5. and finally the most important... a parent who thinks you are ready!
ATC
Senior Master
:rofl:
Not doubting your grandmasters decision. Just letting you know that I have seen a group of real Korean , hard a nails grandmasters pass a group of 7-12 year old's to poom. I watched in disgust as half of the kids could not complete taeguek 8. Then they sat and watched a demo, which was not very good btw, and were then given a long speech on commitment. After the speech they were told they all passed (no sparring/self defense/one steps) and that if they signed up for a 2nd dan program on that day they would recieve a "special discount. They each paid one thousand dollars for their test. 3 months later they were issued their 1st poom (Kukkiwon) certs. I had been invited to watch by a friend who's son was testing. I knew 2 of the GM's and they even asked me to asist in the exam. I am very glad I did not have my dobok that day (Or a suit).Ok, maybe your right
No one can say what it takes to be a Black Belt except the people who are charged with presenting it to the individual. Each school is different.
A Grand Master has determined that my son is worthy to wear the belt of a 1st Degree. He has submitted the paperwork to have this honor recognized by the organization the school is a part of. He will be submitting my son's Kukkiwon application as well.
What you need to understand is that there are those who will promote kids early for money and those who will not. It matters not what belt level/race they are.
Does your kid deserve it? I don't know. I can tell you that all of my students train hard for at least 4 years b4 I even consider testing them. There have been only 4 exceptions in the 20 years I have been a teacher. 2 were natural athletes and the other 2 excell at everything they do (1 is a doctor now)
Like I said b4, everyone is different and needs to be treated as such. Don't for one minute think that a 8th or 9th dan wont promote someone who is not ready. They have mortgages too.
Oh...one more thing TKD Father :
The certificate your child will receive, If it is a legitimate Kukkiwon Cert, Will say poom on it. It is a fact. If they refer to it as a 1st dan inside your sons school then shame on his teacher/grandmaster. He should know better than that. We all have to, or at least we are supposed to, follow the same rules which can be found if you go to the Kukkiwon's web site.
The certificate your child will receive, If it is a legitimate Kukkiwon Cert, Will say poom on it. It is a fact. If they refer to it as a 1st dan inside your sons school then shame on his teacher/grandmaster. He should know better than that. We all have to, or at least we are supposed to, follow the same rules which can be found if you go to the Kukkiwon's web site.
Miles
Senior Master
Bingo! And this is exactly why it does not matter if you are ITF/WTF/ATA, etc. all are subject to the human condition, i.e. greed, need for self-promotion, etc. of the instructor.
It always comes down to the instructor, not the organization, race, ethnicity, socio-economic status, etc.
Math major, wife is the ELA teacher. Just a dumb hick what can I say
rmclain
Black Belt
Any time you come to a public (open) forum, you need to take other people's comments and remarks with a grain of salt. There are some that have consistent actual credentials and experience that they may share - which can be learned from. You also have people on forums that are only elevated in their own minds and post holes in their own experience claims.
You need to decide "what is what" and "who is who," and decide for yourself. But, understand that criticisms, praise, and suggestions are par for the course.
R. McLain
You need to decide "what is what" and "who is who," and decide for yourself. But, understand that criticisms, praise, and suggestions are par for the course.
R. McLain
miguksaram
Master of Arts
He is not disputing a 9th Dan decision in promoting your son. Your son in the eyes of KKW (the people who promoted your 9th dan GM), will be considered a Poom belt. This is not a degrading term, but a term used to seperate Jr.'s from adults. Once your kid turns 16 he will be upgraded to a specific Dan grade based on current Poom rank. Again, this is KKW standards not an opinoin. If you 9th dan GM is saying otherwise, then he is either misleading you or is not communicating correctly to you.
NOW, your son maybe considered a 1st DAN in the school, meaning that the school itself AND ONLY the school, recognizes your son's rank of 1st dan and equates the same as an adult 1st dan.
No what you were wrong about is that you would be receiving more facts about TKD than what is discussed or revealed to you in your own dojang. You call Mst. Terry disrepectful, yet you question him. By your standards you are being disrespectful to him. If you are going to visit online forums, you need a couple of things:
1 - Thick skin. People are going to say things that will strike a nerve or sound insulting. You just need to brush it off.
2 - Open mind. People are going to present information that may conflict with your current beliefs. Instead of scoffing it off, re-check your facts agains theirs, perhaps...just maybe...you were misinformed.
3 - Logical thinking. Don't get emotional in your replies. If a post pisses you off, take a breath and reread it with a cooler head. That way you are not replying out of anger which will cloud the message you are trying to send.
Remember that you can not see the face or hear the tone of voice that the message that is sent. If you are being attacked then you need to confirm what they are trying to say. More times than not it is the fault of the reader for taking the message the wrong way.
TKD_Father
Orange Belt
I'm totally not judging anyone or anything. What people are doing here is attacking MY SON and his accomplishments, not debating THE ISSUE.
If you don't think a 10 year old should hold a Black Belt then express those opinions, do not start asking what tournaments MY SON has been in.
If you think someone should work 6 days a week to get a Black Belt then say that, don't ACCUSE ME of overworking MY SON.
Mr. Stoker posts a lot of pointed stuff about MY SON and not the topic issue, then says "oh, please don't take it the wrong way". The internet is great about that.
I will welcome ANY discussions regarding whether a 10 year old is too young to be a black belt. What I will NOT continue to do is accept attacks on my child. HE IS NOT THE TOPIC HERE!
Mr. Stoker - you should be ashamed. Hiding behind the "oh well I didn't mean it that way" shield. I will not attack you, your school and especially your children. I'm not like you.
A MartialTalk Community dedicated to the Polite and Professional exploration of the Traditional Korean Martial Arts
So far I haven't seen much to promote "Community" here at all, let along Polite or Professional.
If you don't think a 10 year old should hold a Black Belt then express those opinions, do not start asking what tournaments MY SON has been in.
If you think someone should work 6 days a week to get a Black Belt then say that, don't ACCUSE ME of overworking MY SON.
Mr. Stoker posts a lot of pointed stuff about MY SON and not the topic issue, then says "oh, please don't take it the wrong way". The internet is great about that.
I will welcome ANY discussions regarding whether a 10 year old is too young to be a black belt. What I will NOT continue to do is accept attacks on my child. HE IS NOT THE TOPIC HERE!
Mr. Stoker - you should be ashamed. Hiding behind the "oh well I didn't mean it that way" shield. I will not attack you, your school and especially your children. I'm not like you.
A MartialTalk Community dedicated to the Polite and Professional exploration of the Traditional Korean Martial Arts
So far I haven't seen much to promote "Community" here at all, let along Polite or Professional.
miguksaram
Master of Arts
TKD Father, who is you GM? Just curious as I know a few of the local GM's in the area.
Sir,
I am going to give you a polite heads up.
Read what people say and not what you think that they are saying. I posted a polite note earlier about double checking posts and replies.
You say that you are not judging others, but you judge Terry specifically and other posters in general in the very same post.
You have gone after Terry and are being far less than polite. You are accusing people of attacking your son. Nobody has.
I reread the posts here just to be sure.
No, your son is not the topic here, but you have posted little about the topic at hand. You are getting upset with people who are against kiddie BB's because you perceive it as an attack on your son. Thus you have made your son the issue, not other posters.
I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming, as you are brand new and I do not know you, that you are not trying to stir things up. So please take a step back and cool off.
Daniel
Laurentkd
Master Black Belt
I don't know why I am getting in the middle of this, except for the fact that I respect Master Stoker on these boards.
TKDFather when you start a post with this:
My son tested this past Saturday for his 1st Dan. He's 9 years old and has been attending class for 3 years. I guarantee he's deserving of his 1st Dan.
You are going to get a lot of questions. It is not because we don't think YOUR son is deserving, but because so many parents wrongly think their child is! Yours can very well be the exception (and none of us can prove or disprove that). But I just want to you to realize that the statement you made just causes giant alarm bells to go off in the heads of those who have been around the block a couple times with TKD. Especially the fact that no one can give a child a first dan Kukkiwon, it doesn't matter who you are.
Martialtalk is THE BEST, HANDS DOWN martial arts forum I have ever come across on the internet. The posters you read here (including Master Stoker) are full of great knowledge and even just great opinions to get you thinking. I hope you will read some other threads and perhaps even re-read this thread with an open mind and I think you will find that everyone (well just about everyone!) here is very respectful and helpful (and those who aren't don't last long).
I am glad to have you on these boards and I hope you will stick around.
TKDFather when you start a post with this:
My son tested this past Saturday for his 1st Dan. He's 9 years old and has been attending class for 3 years. I guarantee he's deserving of his 1st Dan.
You are going to get a lot of questions. It is not because we don't think YOUR son is deserving, but because so many parents wrongly think their child is! Yours can very well be the exception (and none of us can prove or disprove that). But I just want to you to realize that the statement you made just causes giant alarm bells to go off in the heads of those who have been around the block a couple times with TKD. Especially the fact that no one can give a child a first dan Kukkiwon, it doesn't matter who you are.
Martialtalk is THE BEST, HANDS DOWN martial arts forum I have ever come across on the internet. The posters you read here (including Master Stoker) are full of great knowledge and even just great opinions to get you thinking. I hope you will read some other threads and perhaps even re-read this thread with an open mind and I think you will find that everyone (well just about everyone!) here is very respectful and helpful (and those who aren't don't last long).
I am glad to have you on these boards and I hope you will stick around.
TKD_Father
Orange Belt
Me, over reacting?? Who has been asking what tournaments my son has been attending? I'm not upset about kids getting BB's, I'm upset with Mr. Stoker debating MY SON's abilities and NOT THE TOPIC.
I understand I'm new here, and won't be spending much time here. It appears it's not a community at all but a clique.
I won't attack Mr. Stoker, his children or his school. I'm assuming, based on his posts, that he has NEVER promoted anyone under the age of 10 to Black Belt. That's entirely up to him and his school's policies. I welcome any discussion about THAT issue.
If Mr. Stoker wants to continue a discussion about children receiving BB's I'd be glad to, we share many of the same feelings on the topic. But I will not respond to anything regarding my son here, or in the future.
I understand I'm new here, and won't be spending much time here. It appears it's not a community at all but a clique.
I won't attack Mr. Stoker, his children or his school. I'm assuming, based on his posts, that he has NEVER promoted anyone under the age of 10 to Black Belt. That's entirely up to him and his school's policies. I welcome any discussion about THAT issue.
If Mr. Stoker wants to continue a discussion about children receiving BB's I'd be glad to, we share many of the same feelings on the topic. But I will not respond to anything regarding my son here, or in the future.
Nobody but you injected your son into this conversation. You must be new, not just to this site but to the entire Internet, if you think that you can contribute to a conversation by injecting a person into a conversation as an example and just expect that example to go unchallenged.
miguksaram
Master of Arts
If it appears to be a "clique" that is simply because most of these people have been on here for a long time and know each other from here or in real life. Trust me, this little "clique" has had more than its fair share of disagreements. Just ask Twin Fist or NPTKD or myself, just to name a few.
Those 3 items I mentioned previously should really be looked at if you want to be able to survive any discussion forum.
It has already been pointed out that you were the one who brought your son into the discussion as a child who meets the criteria. When this is done, you best believe people will question your judgement based on the example given.
No, but you interjected him into the topic and have perpetuated this discussion about him, a discussion that should have ended with the poom/dan explanations.
Once again, you are judging others on this board after saying that you are not judging anyone.
If THAT topic is the OP, then there is plenty of discussion on topic. What are your views? You have yet to post them.
You came on to say that your son is deserving of his belt and listed the reasons why. You brought him up on a public board, not Terry.
All of this has been addressed by other posters here. Terry has apologized to you. Why are you perpetuating this?
Daniel
TKD_Father I am going to start off by making a public apology to you, your son and your G.M., I am truely sorry for anything ill feelings this may have caused you.
On to a couple of topics, I only ask about the circuit because if he was with A.A.U. or USAT, than I would probaly know him, It seems that all up and coming athletes are well known even if they are 8-10. I was not trying to insult and then you said no he is just doing local and I offered some advice that if he has the talent that you may want to go this route for him to make a junior team or even the national team.
You also mention that you may have to leave your current instructor and I said to re-think that decission because if your GM has got him this far why change schools.
I do not need to duck and cover from anybody just for the record my comments where taken as if I do not believe in a poom rank and I do, go and read some of my post. As of today I have never promoted anybody under five years to BB whether adult-teenagers or childern. This is the way my GM did it and I have continue his ways.
I have continue to exorcise the right to have this converstation in a way that will sound bad but it is not. I get grieve from people about my own kids and they have won every major tournament and also have lost those same tournament a year later. Competition is just that competition, sometimes you win and someime you loose and grow from that. I have never came to a chat line saying my son is simply the best, you have and then retracted by saying he is one of the best. I did not take that the wrong way just that you was a proud father, which I find fullfilllng when so many childern have no parent involvement in there child life. Also I was not trying to insult your GM but correct the proper term. that will be on a KKW certificate. I truely hope you can over look what is being said and read the heart filled words I am trying to express.
I would love to see every child learn and grow as martial artist without them we have no more linage. We need strong parents to keep the sport side growing without them it cannot grow. Martial Talk is the best place to be and is a great place to learn and talk. I know sometime we get our emotion involvd and that lead us to mis understandings.
In closing I would like to say thank you to everyone for trying to explain my action and I appreciate all of you and TKD_Father I applaud you as your son grows in life and in the art of TKD.
On to a couple of topics, I only ask about the circuit because if he was with A.A.U. or USAT, than I would probaly know him, It seems that all up and coming athletes are well known even if they are 8-10. I was not trying to insult and then you said no he is just doing local and I offered some advice that if he has the talent that you may want to go this route for him to make a junior team or even the national team.
You also mention that you may have to leave your current instructor and I said to re-think that decission because if your GM has got him this far why change schools.
I do not need to duck and cover from anybody just for the record my comments where taken as if I do not believe in a poom rank and I do, go and read some of my post. As of today I have never promoted anybody under five years to BB whether adult-teenagers or childern. This is the way my GM did it and I have continue his ways.
I have continue to exorcise the right to have this converstation in a way that will sound bad but it is not. I get grieve from people about my own kids and they have won every major tournament and also have lost those same tournament a year later. Competition is just that competition, sometimes you win and someime you loose and grow from that. I have never came to a chat line saying my son is simply the best, you have and then retracted by saying he is one of the best. I did not take that the wrong way just that you was a proud father, which I find fullfilllng when so many childern have no parent involvement in there child life. Also I was not trying to insult your GM but correct the proper term. that will be on a KKW certificate. I truely hope you can over look what is being said and read the heart filled words I am trying to express.
I would love to see every child learn and grow as martial artist without them we have no more linage. We need strong parents to keep the sport side growing without them it cannot grow. Martial Talk is the best place to be and is a great place to learn and talk. I know sometime we get our emotion involvd and that lead us to mis understandings.
In closing I would like to say thank you to everyone for trying to explain my action and I appreciate all of you and TKD_Father I applaud you as your son grows in life and in the art of TKD.
