You're Walking Down a Dark Alley - Semi Sucker Punch?

[CB Jones]

Once, I was walking down Arthur Ave and it was around 2 am. When I see this guy walking down the street continuously looking left and right at people but not making eye contact. I assumed he wanted to light a cigarette and was looking for someone with a lighter.

When he got close to me I asked him... “do you have a light?” just trying to be nice. As I pull out this cool faux gun lighter to offer him he just unloads on me with a right hook without warning and after I fell down begins kicking me in the ribs until he turns and runs away.

Crazy right?

 

[jobo]

Ok, realistic scenario for the types that can’t see past the OP’s case...

You’re walking down a side street off Fordham Rd in the Bronx at about 2 am. Arthur Ave for those who may be familiar with the area and/or the A Bronx Tale movie. You’re minding your business and walking quickly, but not giving off signs that you’re an easy target (that you know of, as you’ve been around that neighborhood many times). A guy walking towards you asks for a light, and as you’re replying “I don’t smoke” he reaches into his waistband and you clearly see a gun being pulled out.

His mistake is he gets a bit too close before it’s drawn completely, so you’re within punching distance if you close in quickly enough.

Whatta ya do? You’ve only got a fraction of a second to decide.

Thats Where this situaTion always goes wrong, if i ask someOne asks for a light, and they reply " i dont smoke" i feel like Punching them, i didnt ask if they smoke, that infomation is of no use to me, i want to know if they have a light, a question i still havent got an answer to.

Just say, sorry mate, no. Then they wouldnt feel the need to shoot you

 

[JR 137]

Thats Where this situaTion always goes wrong, if i ask someOne asks for a light, and they reply " i dont smoke" i feel like Punching them, i didnt ask if they smoke, that infomation is of no use to me, i want to know if they have a light, a question i still havent got an answer to.

Just say, sorry mate, no. Then they wouldnt feel the need to shoot you

Good way to look at it. Kind of like when I ask my wife if she wants A or B, and I get a “yes.” Which F’in one?

 

[JR 137]

Once, I was walking down Arthur Ave and it was around 2 am. When I see this guy walking down the street continuously looking left and right at people but not making eye contact. I assumed he wanted to light a cigarette and was looking for someone with a lighter.

When he got close to me I asked him... “do you have a light?” just trying to be nice. As I pull out this cool faux gun lighter to offer him he just unloads on me with a right hook without warning and after I fell down begins kicking me in the ribs until he turns and runs away.

Crazy right?

You deserved it for carrying a fake gun

 

[JR 137]

Great outcome.

You'll never know what he intended, but clearly he didn't get it, you inturpted his plan and insured your own safety.

Right thing to do every time? Who knows? Right thing for everyone? Definitely not.

Seems to me that you made the right split second decision under extreme duress, though. That's a big win for you.

Curious if you recall what happened to the gun after he went down. Still in his hand? Loose on the sidewalk? When I think through scerarios, I always contimplate kicking it under a parked car or dropping it in a mailbox or something on my way out, just to remove it from the equation, but that's academic in your story. I make no claims that I would have done better or even as well.

Hopefully this guy is on mooktalk telling his version of this story right now.

I thought about that too, after the fact. One of my what if’s.

What I did wouldn’t work every time. Another step or two away, and he’d have been out of range, changing the entire scenario.

 

[Anarax]

You got off work late. It's dark outside. You always walk home but know of a shortcut down a little used dark alley. So to save time, you take the shortcut. You've walked the 70 yards and are about to come out on to the well lit sidewalk, just a minute from your home.
A couple of shadowy men step out to block your exit. You, in a loud voice, say "hello fellas, how's it going?", and keep walking confidently toward them and to the lit area. One guy raises his hands in a boxing, on guard position. There are 3 or 4 other people standing by the light pole and are watching what's going down.
Do you sucker punch the guy who went into a fighting stance? (you're close enough by the way, for a quick centerline punch, and know you could do this) Is this legal? Just because the guy posed a fighting stance, is it legal and/or right to just take him out right there? Should you worry about the bystanders saying, all they saw was you taking the first swing or punch? Should you not even worry about what's legal at this point or bystanders and act fast anyway?

Legal ramifications are a huge part of situational awareness and use of force. The second they blocked my exit I would have turned around. Avoiding the setup of I walked towards them and hit first is going to look bad. However, if I turned around to go another route and they followed then that will at least show they sought me out/potentially instigated it. Just walking towards them while saying hello isn't what I would do. Two people in a poorly lit alley way is a bad situation for anyone, I'm not playing on their terms.

 

[ShortBridge]

I thought about that too, after the fact. One of my what if’s.

What I did wouldn’t work every time. Another step or two away, and he’d have been out of range, changing the entire scenario.

But then you may have made an adjustment. You have to feel good about how you handled it. It really couldn't have gone any better.

 

[dvcochran]

I have been in California only twice, L.A. to be exact. The closest I have ever been to being "mugged", I was walking down Sunset Strip gawking at everything not really paying attention. There were two of us and I was foolishly walking next to the buildings. A guy came out of an alley and sucker punched me hard enough to crack the bone above my eye. I think he had a small shank in his hand because the cut was really deep and long. I went to my knee but didn't get knocked out. When I stood back up he was half way down the alley running hard. To this day I don't know if he expected it to knock me out so he could roll me, thought I was alone, or was it just plain meanness. Learned some hard lessons that day.

Adding to my post. L.A. California, just sucks. Period.
The attack I mentioned earlier happened when I was near my prime in athletic ability. For a long time I took a hit to my pride also, thinking I should have easily been able to avoid it or deal with it without harm. I would have strongly advocated striking first back then. Like I said earlier, there was a lot of fault on my own by not by not being aware of my surroundings.
Fast forward three years. I am back in L.A. for the same company going to the same place. I had taken a cab down Sunset to go to the Whiskey GoGo club (look it up, great history). I got out of the cab and walked about 10 feet when a guy I was aware of quickly turned toward me and presented a knife. He started to talk (I made sure we had eye contact) but before he could really say anything, I stepped to the side. outside parry blocked the arm with the knife and took control of it. Then palm heeled the elbow. Crack. The knife went flying and he went down as I controlled the arm. I stomped his head twice and felt the arm go limp. I then took one step back still controlling the arm to check for movement. None. Just to be sure I did three had stomps to the ribs. No movement. I stepped back to check the environment. The street was busy but people just kept walking like he was just a piece of debris on the sidewalk. I went into the GOGo and enjoyed the evening never hearing anything about what had happened outside.
I think the three rib stomps may have been for the first attack. Who knows. My point is I learned my lesson from the first attack and it paid off the next time.
Age and experience has taught me there are times you will not see a life event coming, death, accidents, even attacks. Without exception, strike first/strike fast is an incontrovertible rule to live by. However, when I start the "what if game" my age and experience knows the repercussions of the rule. So I am not arguing the rule, just want people to understand in this screwed up day and age it likely will not be a black & white situation.

 

[JR 137]

But then you may have made an adjustment. You have to feel good about how you handled it. It really couldn't have gone any better.

What you can and should and shouldn’t do all depends on a ton of factors. Sometimes you’ve got room and opportunity to run; sometimes you don’t. Sometimes you’ve got opportunity to strike, sometimes you don’t. Sometimes you can yell for help, sometimes you can’t.

There’s way too many variables to take into consideration. I read what you guys were posting about Geoff Thompson’s stuff like running in a straight line away from the gunman and a bunch of other stuff from him and others. That’s all fine and good if the situation allows it. A lot of the RBSD stuff I’ve seen is too rigid in a sense. Too much “he’ll do this, and you do that” or “this is the best way to address this” type stuff. When does a fight go exactly as planned? When does an unexpected attack ever go as planned? It doesn’t.

 

[JR 137]

While I’m on Fordham Rd and the area, here’s a way quite a few people I know directly got jacked, and I’ve heard a lot of people say their friends got the same thing (I worked at Fordham University, right on Fordham Rd)...

In broad daylight, a guy would walk right up to you as you’re walking down the street. He’d stop right in front of you and two guys would be shoulder to shoulder with you. He’d say “I have a gun. The guys next to you have their’s pointed at you right now. Take your wallet out, hand me all your money, shake my hand, and put your wallet back into your pocket.”

You’ve got to admit, they’re pretty good.

Once I heard about that, I left my wallet, phone, watch, etc. in my desk whenever I needed to go that way. I’d have a few singles in my back pocket, and any other cash elsewhere. I never got approached, so I don’t know what they would’ve done if all I gave them was a few singles.

 

[ShortBridge]

What you can and should and shouldn’t do all depends on a ton of factors. Sometimes you’ve got room and opportunity to run; sometimes you don’t. Sometimes you’ve got opportunity to strike, sometimes you don’t. Sometimes you can yell for help, sometimes you can’t.

There’s way too many variables to take into consideration. I read what you guys were posting about Geoff Thompson’s stuff like running in a straight line away from the gunman and a bunch of other stuff from him and others. That’s all fine and good if the situation allows it. A lot of the RBSD stuff I’ve seen is too rigid in a sense. Too much “he’ll do this, and you do that” or “this is the best way to address this” type stuff. When does a fight go exactly as planned? When does an unexpected attack ever go as planned? It doesn’t.

I agree with you. Those studies are informative to me. Drills and training that I do is informative to me. When stuff happens, you're going to do something and hope for the best. Good training and having worked out some of the critical thinking about options ahead of time helps and might help you avoid paralysis. Just like an infielder, gets a bunch of data, watches a bunch of film, does a ton of drills, and fields 1,000,000 ground balls, but in the game, something weird comes off of the bat and they do something. Sometimes it works out, some times it doesn't. How good they are, how good their training was, and happenstance all factor into their success, but they also don't have foolproof, hard and fast prescriptions for how to field a real batted ball, in a real baseball game. But, their odds of success are much better than mine or any person who hasn't done that work.

"Take your money out, hand it to me, shake my hand and put your wallet back in your pocket in full view of dozens of witnesses?" You betcha! Not worth dying for.

I think about and I train my students to prepare for increasing their odds of avoiding and if not, surviving an assault. I think that increases their odds over training them for belts or chi sao tournaments, but I suppose you could do both, as long as you maintained perspective.

This has turned into a very good thread. Thank you guys for your contributions.

 

[JR 137]

I agree with you. Those studies are informative to me. Drills and training that I do is informative to me. When stuff happens, you're going to do something and hope for the best. Good training and having worked out some of the critical thinking about options ahead of time helps and might help you avoid paralysis. Just like an infielder, gets a bunch of data, watches a bunch of film, does a ton of drills, and fields 1,000,000 ground balls, but in the game, something weird comes off of the bat and they do something. Sometimes it works out, some times it doesn't. How good they are, how good their training was, and happenstance all factor into their success, but they also don't have foolproof, hard and fast prescriptions for how to field a real batted ball, in a real baseball game. But, their odds of success are much better than mine or any person who hasn't done that work.

"Take your money out, hand it to me, shake my hand and put your wallet back in your pocket in full view of dozens of witnesses?" You betcha! Not worth dying for.

I think about and I train my students to prepare for increasing their odds of avoiding and if not, surviving an assault. I think that increases their odds over training them for belts or chi sao tournaments, but I suppose you could do both, as long as you maintained perspective.

This has turned into a very good thread. Thank you guys for your contributions.

I like and agree with your post, so I think I hit like.

Drills are for exactly as you described. Your infielder analogy is right on IMO. There’s so many variables to the infielder’s response to that ground ball - how many base runners and where they are, how many outs, the score, etc.; not to mention how it comes off the bat. The situation’s going to dictate the response. The best an MA instructor can do is give a few responses, and teach principles rather than rigid responses.

 

[Flying Crane]

Now, what the hell did I do with them chaps?

I was gonna use them again tonight, but if you need them I’ll get them back to you...

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Ok, realistic scenario for the types that can’t see past the OP’s case...

You’re walking down a side street off Fordham Rd in the Bronx at about 2 am. Arthur Ave for those who may be familiar with the area and/or the A Bronx Tale movie. You’re minding your business and walking quickly, but not giving off signs that you’re an easy target (that you know of, as you’ve been around that neighborhood many times). A guy walking towards you asks for a light, and as you’re replying “I don’t smoke” he reaches into his waistband and you clearly see a gun being pulled out.

His mistake is he gets a bit too close before it’s drawn completely, so you’re within punching distance if you close in quickly enough.

Whatta ya do? You’ve only got a fraction of a second to decide.

My fiance took me to brooklyn saturday for my birthday, had this thread running through my mind half the time. Then, she took me to a restaurant in lower manhattan called "Ninja new york", where 'ninjas' jump out at you with fake knives. was very interesting making sure I did not respond to people 'trying' to attack me with knives.

 

[JR 137]

My fiance took me to brooklyn saturday for my birthday, had this thread running through my mind half the time. Then, she took me to a restaurant in lower manhattan called "Ninja new york", where 'ninjas' jump out at you with fake knives. was very interesting making sure I did not respond to people 'trying' to attack me with knives.

How was the food? I never know how to order at Japanese restaurants. I don’t know, I guess I can’t figure out how much sushi I’m actually going to get and if I should order a few different things or is one enough. Every time I’ve been in a sushi restaurant, it was with a bunch of people and somehow sushi got ordered and passed around. I always get an entre instead of sushi, but I mooch everyone else’s because I’m that guy who’s got no clue in a Japanese restaurant. I’m a big sushi fan, so you’d think I’d know how to order it.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

We got a 'set' meal, to save us from having to figure it out. Cost $60 for two for just the food, came with chicken tempura, sushi, sashimi, edamame beans, fruit and steak. I was a fan, all the food was delicious. Definitely someplace to go if you enjoy that kind of thing (and are okay with people jumping out at you)

But about japanese places in general, I have the same issue as you...I never know if ordering something is just one roll, or if it's enough for an actual meal. A lot of places have a combo thing though, so if you find one of those with sushi you like it handles that worry.

 

[ShortBridge]

I'd be happy to have a date night out in (almost) any of the boroughs, but I would not enjoy a meal that involved ninjas jumping out and pretending to ambush me. Geeze, who's idea of a theme restaurant is that? We're clearly not the target market, but I can't imagine how anyone would enjoy that sort of thing in 2018 when people sometimes get randomly killed while eating out.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I'd be happy to have a date night out in (almost) any of the boroughs, but I would not enjoy a meal that involved ninjas jumping out and pretending to ambush me. Geeze, who's idea of a theme restaurant is that? We're clearly not the target market, but I can't imagine how anyone would enjoy that sort of thing in 2018 when people sometimes get randomly killed while eating out.

It's apparently really popular, and I had a blast watching my fiance freak out at everyone. I think part of it is that when you are going in, you know that it's all fake. I would agree though, martial artists are probably not the target market.

 

[JR 137]

Funny thing about sushi...
I hate salmon. Cooked any way, it’s just got that odd taste that I can’t get into. But I love salmon sushi. Don’t ask why.

And for the record, I love fish and seafood. Jellyfish is the only thing from the ocean I can think of that I wouldn’t try eating.

 

[dvcochran]

Funny thing about sushi...
I hate salmon. Cooked any way, it’s just got that odd taste that I can’t get into. But I love salmon sushi. Don’t ask why.

And for the record, I love fish and seafood. Jellyfish is the only thing from the ocean I can think of that I wouldn’t try eating.

Man I love Salmon any way it is fixed. Love seafood but didn't know people ate Jellyfish but would give it a try. I do hate squid though. Can't stand the consistency.