So ... exactly what is your point with me? We've covered the sulsa part of my name before here. Is it a girl thing, or are you just incapable of following the forum rules?
YOU ARE AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!! KKW 17th F.I.C.
- Thread starter msmitht
- Start date
So ... exactly what is your point with me? We've covered the sulsa part of my name before here. Is it a girl thing, or are you just incapable of following the forum rules?
:asian:
The Bentley came out of the marketing seminar this weekend (I don't actually have one myself). The guy speaking of marketing told us that a Bentley was going to be his next car while telling us (in front of his student's parents whom he brought) exactly how he suckers them of their hard earned cash. I wanted so badly to ask them what they thought of him after his seminar. But alas, I didn't.
I guess I just need to drive my 12 year old car.:supcool:
miguksaram
Master of Arts
Was this Bill Cho that was speaking about the bentley?
NPTKD
Brown Belt
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Hey you were in vages... jump over to the stance thread and help me out.
I really hope you are kidding about him making statements like that in front of his students, this is what gives TKD a bad rap.
Terry, I am not kidding. He really said that in front of students & parents!
And yes, it was Bill Cho!
Well did he give any good advice about getting new student and keeping them.
Not really. He doesn't keep them well. I spent the previous week with his competitor a few miles away. My friend gets Bill Cho's former students weekly.
This was not a Kukkiwon Instructors Course, kind of
The idea of bringing the Kukkiwon to the USA to conduct an official Foreign Instructor Course is wonderful. For many Taekwondo practitioners travelling to Korea and doing a 40 hour seminar/course is difficult; job, family and expense. Although I have traveled and trained in Korea I never attended the Instructor Course and was a bit excited when I heard about this event; I was also skeptical about it when I heard who was hosting the course. I knew several respected Taekwondo instructors and friends that where going to attend and they encouraged me to go. (A couple of MT people were also going and I really wanted to meet them in person)
Before the course we were sent the instructor handbook to pre-study, which as an academic I thought was a brilliant idea; it was the actual manual too. We were also told that we would have to present at the course: proof of our Kukkiwon rank, first aid certification and a criminal background check; this is looking legit.
SIDE NOTE:
I have always been a supporter of the Kukkiwon and also the Dan certification they provide. When I started they were hard to get and that made them valuable. In my experience the people who complain about Kukkiwon certifications don’t have them, but after they somehow get it they can’t wait to yell it to the world. I was shocked that at the US Open last year when they offered the “Special Testing”. First, I believe that the intention of this test was to “right many wrongs” that people had suffered. Many of these individuals had their Kukkiwon’s held back by their instructors, many never had them sent to the Kukkiwon and many had received fake Kukkiwon’s. These individuals had reason to be there; the real issue became when those people who think that just because they have practiced for X amount of time that they deserve X rank, came out of the woodwork. They learned the forms the day before and received their “high” rank which I now see posted with honor on their websites, when a year ago they were bashing the Kukkiwon and USAT. Using that logic I should promote a student who left 15 years ago to 3rd dan when he returns because he practiced; I call BS. These are the same people who demand that their students follow the rules when they themselves basically cheated the system…all for what….PAPER?
But I digress …….
Back to Chicago:
I do appreciate the idea of self improvement. Had I signed up for a motivational or business seminar I might have expected some of the material but in a taekwondo instructor course this material insulted and de-motivated me. I really do not care how much money you make while you use terms like integrity, honor and humility as buzz words to misdirect potential and current students into giving you cash.
Hint to motivational speakers, if you have not really done anything but motivational speaking then why are you telling me how to be successful? Example: All four of you give me $100 a piece and I will tell you how to make $400... get it? I am motivated by someone who has been to the top and shares their experience down to the point where they were like me (frame of reference) before their paradigm shift. Example: Former/Current top taekwondo person/athlete who shares their experience.
I think talking about the taekwondo business in the USA is important for all instructors. We all need to learn basic management principles and practices so that we can do our primary job, teach martial arts. What we did was listen to people selling us on their programs, yes they tried to sell it to us at the end.
Msmitht’s numbered assessment was not sarcasm; that is what we did/learned. We did not follow the curriculum at all, ever.
The only real Kukkiwon Instructor was Master Jae-Yoon Ahn, that guy was the real deal (back to him later); only problem was he had to teach poomsae for one hour or so and not one person in that room could have really fixed anything in that amount of time.
Dortiz makes the point that it is different in the US compared to Korea, but the test did not contain anything that could not have been talked about or practiced in the US.
The test or lack of:
Probably the worst part for me was the test. Let me be blunt, we did not actually get tested but we passed. Participates actually clapped and cheered when they found out that we would not receive a score less than 70% PERIOD, I will not say why because I am appalled. I did not cheer, in fact I considered walking out but even I was weak. I could have passed that test on my own and will not display my Instructor certification until I go to Korea and really take it.
The sad thing is I know many of the participates will flaunt the certification, demand more from their students and use this for gain even though they know it is not right.
The poomsae test was the same, not a real test.
The Good Stuff!
I really felt like a negative person this weekend and feel like one right now as I write this but let me speak of some wonderful things about the weekend and really what, in reflection, I was meant to learn for this experience.
First, I have had the great fortune to work with and even become friends with some of the most outstanding, humble and wise taekwondo practitioners in the world. Two of my mentors were on this trip and have reminded me of why I do taekwondo. They teach me to maintain my beginners mind and are two of my favorite seniors and friends, Master Garth Cooley and MILES; thank you both.
Second, though my travels around the world in taekwondo, it really comes down to the people you meet. This trip was so worth it to meet the MT peeps!
Dortiz is positive and enthusiastic person and gives his best no matter what! (We MISSED you at dinner)
LaurenTKD is a charming and strong individual who has a moral fiber that I really respect. Powerful Jedi will she be.
Msmitht is direct, hilarious (OMFG) and knowledgeable. Hey guy and gals he has REAL skill too, watch out TF! Nice sidekicks’ man, you’re awesome.
IcemanSK is such a soft and peaceful soul, what a wonderful person.
Cmassman is a no BS guy who tells it like it is no matter where we are. lol! (I have known him for a while)
Andy and Ben where there too.
I did meet many others and hope to see them again.
My lesson:
My personal growth here comes from one Master Jae-Yoon Ahn. Just to be able to watch his mastery of poomsae was wonderful, I watched him in Turkey last year at World’s and thought he was good. After the test, in the peak of my despair he appeared and asked to lead us in some yudanja poomsae; he was the favorite (only) instructor there. We had to do Keumgang for our test which we did not do in our training time, so we stated there. He went through it roughly and we did it all crammed up; afterward he moved us to the sides and created a space in the middle of the room where he showed us how it is done (AWESOME timing).
All of the sudden he scanned the room and his eyes locked on me. He knows that I am on the US Team and he called me to the center of the room. He then asked me to do Keumgang , I did what came out. Afterward he told me I was very tense, I did feel that way; he said to relax so that I could show my power. Funny, Ky-Tu Dang told me the same thing in Spain a month ago; It is one of my demons and because he is a true master (one that actually works out hard, even at 55). Master Ahn did not say this to criticize me but I felt to teach me. Moments like this stay with you and in times of stress you can remember the words or lessons; this year in Egypt I will remember his face and it will remind me to relax.
He then talked about me being under 30 and I told him I was 45 almost 46. He was shocked and asked if I competed in Master 1 and I said yes. He then said to me, “well then you know Chonkwan”? I said yes and he said, “Then do it”. So I did but this time I tried to be relaxed and fluid. After he said, “well, now I have to do better”, which he did! We then went back to the class.
That last moment inspired me. I want to be able at any time to display World Class Poomsae on command. I cannot wait to train today and will work hard to reach this goal, thank you so much Master Jae-Yoon Ahn.
My last thoughts are directed to any that will read them, Taekwondo practitioners and especially instructors; Get off your butts and train. If you are not in shape, If you cannot do what you ask your students to do or at least TRY, if you use excuses, if you do not really know the material you are not leading from the front and why should anyone follow you? Think about it.
Sorry I had to write this fast, so forgive my mistakes and comma usage.
The idea of bringing the Kukkiwon to the USA to conduct an official Foreign Instructor Course is wonderful. For many Taekwondo practitioners travelling to Korea and doing a 40 hour seminar/course is difficult; job, family and expense. Although I have traveled and trained in Korea I never attended the Instructor Course and was a bit excited when I heard about this event; I was also skeptical about it when I heard who was hosting the course. I knew several respected Taekwondo instructors and friends that where going to attend and they encouraged me to go. (A couple of MT people were also going and I really wanted to meet them in person)
Before the course we were sent the instructor handbook to pre-study, which as an academic I thought was a brilliant idea; it was the actual manual too. We were also told that we would have to present at the course: proof of our Kukkiwon rank, first aid certification and a criminal background check; this is looking legit.
SIDE NOTE:
I have always been a supporter of the Kukkiwon and also the Dan certification they provide. When I started they were hard to get and that made them valuable. In my experience the people who complain about Kukkiwon certifications don’t have them, but after they somehow get it they can’t wait to yell it to the world. I was shocked that at the US Open last year when they offered the “Special Testing”. First, I believe that the intention of this test was to “right many wrongs” that people had suffered. Many of these individuals had their Kukkiwon’s held back by their instructors, many never had them sent to the Kukkiwon and many had received fake Kukkiwon’s. These individuals had reason to be there; the real issue became when those people who think that just because they have practiced for X amount of time that they deserve X rank, came out of the woodwork. They learned the forms the day before and received their “high” rank which I now see posted with honor on their websites, when a year ago they were bashing the Kukkiwon and USAT. Using that logic I should promote a student who left 15 years ago to 3rd dan when he returns because he practiced; I call BS. These are the same people who demand that their students follow the rules when they themselves basically cheated the system…all for what….PAPER?
But I digress …….
Back to Chicago:
I do appreciate the idea of self improvement. Had I signed up for a motivational or business seminar I might have expected some of the material but in a taekwondo instructor course this material insulted and de-motivated me. I really do not care how much money you make while you use terms like integrity, honor and humility as buzz words to misdirect potential and current students into giving you cash.
Hint to motivational speakers, if you have not really done anything but motivational speaking then why are you telling me how to be successful? Example: All four of you give me $100 a piece and I will tell you how to make $400... get it? I am motivated by someone who has been to the top and shares their experience down to the point where they were like me (frame of reference) before their paradigm shift. Example: Former/Current top taekwondo person/athlete who shares their experience.
I think talking about the taekwondo business in the USA is important for all instructors. We all need to learn basic management principles and practices so that we can do our primary job, teach martial arts. What we did was listen to people selling us on their programs, yes they tried to sell it to us at the end.
Msmitht’s numbered assessment was not sarcasm; that is what we did/learned. We did not follow the curriculum at all, ever.
The only real Kukkiwon Instructor was Master Jae-Yoon Ahn, that guy was the real deal (back to him later); only problem was he had to teach poomsae for one hour or so and not one person in that room could have really fixed anything in that amount of time.
Dortiz makes the point that it is different in the US compared to Korea, but the test did not contain anything that could not have been talked about or practiced in the US.
The test or lack of:
Probably the worst part for me was the test. Let me be blunt, we did not actually get tested but we passed. Participates actually clapped and cheered when they found out that we would not receive a score less than 70% PERIOD, I will not say why because I am appalled. I did not cheer, in fact I considered walking out but even I was weak. I could have passed that test on my own and will not display my Instructor certification until I go to Korea and really take it.
The sad thing is I know many of the participates will flaunt the certification, demand more from their students and use this for gain even though they know it is not right.
The poomsae test was the same, not a real test.
The Good Stuff!
I really felt like a negative person this weekend and feel like one right now as I write this but let me speak of some wonderful things about the weekend and really what, in reflection, I was meant to learn for this experience.
First, I have had the great fortune to work with and even become friends with some of the most outstanding, humble and wise taekwondo practitioners in the world. Two of my mentors were on this trip and have reminded me of why I do taekwondo. They teach me to maintain my beginners mind and are two of my favorite seniors and friends, Master Garth Cooley and MILES; thank you both.
Second, though my travels around the world in taekwondo, it really comes down to the people you meet. This trip was so worth it to meet the MT peeps!
Dortiz is positive and enthusiastic person and gives his best no matter what! (We MISSED you at dinner)
LaurenTKD is a charming and strong individual who has a moral fiber that I really respect. Powerful Jedi will she be.
Msmitht is direct, hilarious (OMFG) and knowledgeable. Hey guy and gals he has REAL skill too, watch out TF! Nice sidekicks’ man, you’re awesome.
IcemanSK is such a soft and peaceful soul, what a wonderful person.
Cmassman is a no BS guy who tells it like it is no matter where we are. lol! (I have known him for a while)
Andy and Ben where there too.
I did meet many others and hope to see them again.
My lesson:
My personal growth here comes from one Master Jae-Yoon Ahn. Just to be able to watch his mastery of poomsae was wonderful, I watched him in Turkey last year at World’s and thought he was good. After the test, in the peak of my despair he appeared and asked to lead us in some yudanja poomsae; he was the favorite (only) instructor there. We had to do Keumgang for our test which we did not do in our training time, so we stated there. He went through it roughly and we did it all crammed up; afterward he moved us to the sides and created a space in the middle of the room where he showed us how it is done (AWESOME timing).
All of the sudden he scanned the room and his eyes locked on me. He knows that I am on the US Team and he called me to the center of the room. He then asked me to do Keumgang , I did what came out. Afterward he told me I was very tense, I did feel that way; he said to relax so that I could show my power. Funny, Ky-Tu Dang told me the same thing in Spain a month ago; It is one of my demons and because he is a true master (one that actually works out hard, even at 55). Master Ahn did not say this to criticize me but I felt to teach me. Moments like this stay with you and in times of stress you can remember the words or lessons; this year in Egypt I will remember his face and it will remind me to relax.
He then talked about me being under 30 and I told him I was 45 almost 46. He was shocked and asked if I competed in Master 1 and I said yes. He then said to me, “well then you know Chonkwan”? I said yes and he said, “Then do it”. So I did but this time I tried to be relaxed and fluid. After he said, “well, now I have to do better”, which he did! We then went back to the class.
That last moment inspired me. I want to be able at any time to display World Class Poomsae on command. I cannot wait to train today and will work hard to reach this goal, thank you so much Master Jae-Yoon Ahn.
My last thoughts are directed to any that will read them, Taekwondo practitioners and especially instructors; Get off your butts and train. If you are not in shape, If you cannot do what you ask your students to do or at least TRY, if you use excuses, if you do not really know the material you are not leading from the front and why should anyone follow you? Think about it.
Sorry I had to write this fast, so forgive my mistakes and comma usage.
I wasn't at this seminar/event/ rally/ fund raiser (whatever it was). But reading these posts sounds like it was similar to the Dave Del Dotto thing, way back when. If you remember Dave, you might know what I'm talking about.
miguksaram
Master of Arts
That guy is an idiot and full of himself. I have a couple of stories about him and his students that alway raise the hair on the back of my neck. ~sigh~ Well I hope the rest of seminar was better.
Lets see where we stand so far.
1) We have a note by myself, telling people to stop with the personal shots.
2) We have a nudge by Bob, also suggesting the same thing.
3) Yet I still see comments about TF and Shesulsa. What is this thread about again? Oh thats right...neither of the people I just mentioned.
That being said...
ADMIN NOTE
2ND WARNING AND FINAL WARNING
Stop with the personal shots and return to the topic at hand. Further disregard of the forum rules will result in the thread being closed and Infraction points issued!
Mike Slosek
MT Asst. Admin
1) We have a note by myself, telling people to stop with the personal shots.
2) We have a nudge by Bob, also suggesting the same thing.
3) Yet I still see comments about TF and Shesulsa. What is this thread about again? Oh thats right...neither of the people I just mentioned.
That being said...
ADMIN NOTE
2ND WARNING AND FINAL WARNING
Stop with the personal shots and return to the topic at hand. Further disregard of the forum rules will result in the thread being closed and Infraction points issued!
Mike Slosek
MT Asst. Admin
Master Southwick you are always so humble and I for one am glad to have had the priverledge to meet you. I am sorry to hear it was not a good time but I am gladto hear you and the rest had some good training with Master Ahn and you was able to meet some other TKD people.
dortiz
Black Belt
On a different note for those that were there I will forever disagree with the sport minded focus regarding the block. I stand by blocking is good. If the guys gets his fingers hit than close his hand and block with his fist instead.
Especially in sparring since you are not going to grab, fist should be closed anyway.
When doing line drills people should have a habit of hands up. You will fight as you train. If we are supposedly advocating the Martial Arts side then this too should be worked on.
My personal frustration and cross to bear. Every day a child is taught to fight with his hands down is a sad day to me.
Edit: You are awesome!
Dave O.
Especially in sparring since you are not going to grab, fist should be closed anyway.
When doing line drills people should have a habit of hands up. You will fight as you train. If we are supposedly advocating the Martial Arts side then this too should be worked on.
My personal frustration and cross to bear. Every day a child is taught to fight with his hands down is a sad day to me.
Edit: You are awesome!
Dave O.
- Thread Starter
- #59
Not trying to break any rules, no malice behind my statement. It just so happens that I was told that the word "Sulsa" translates to a condition similar to the runs....that's all.
Laurentkd
Master Black Belt
Ok, I'll throw in my post (although I am sure I will be told it is too nice!).
As everyone else has said, this was NOT what I expected. I was very disappointed in the course, and in the "test" at the end. As Master Southwick mentioned, maybe we should have all just walked out. The smarmy presentation by Bill Cho (in front of his students and parents) made my skin crawl. The attempt from GM Hyong to hypnotize us made me laugh. I can't help but wonder why someone who doesn't have money as their priority start a quality organization we can all stand behind?? But I guess the answer is they are all too busy teaching quality martial arts!
But on to the good stuff.
I would like to say that I did enjoy the demonstration seminar by Master Lee. I did not come to this event to sit through that type of seminar. But I felt he did a good job explaining HOW to demonstrate the important aspects of what you teach (respect, discipline, etc) when asked to do a "show". Most of his suggestions were ones that I felt I could honorably do to help demonstrate my (future) dojang. Again, this is not what I came for, but at least it showed me that there can be seminars to help school owners promote their dojang without it being all about the almighty dollar (cough cough bill cho cough cough).
The poomsae portion with Master Ahn was awesome! It was limited due to the fact that we had 100 people trying to do poomsae in a small room without any individual instruction. But getting to see him perform on Sunday was worth the price of admission alone. The same follows for watching MSUTKD perform!! I will say that was a definite highlight. His presentation was awesome, but the most impressive part was the fact that he was asked on the spot in front of 150 other black belts to perform Chonkwan and he did so masterfully. I can tell you right now- my group presentation of Keumgang SUCKED! It has been a looooong time since I have performed in front of a group and I know I didn't step up to the challenge the way I should have been able to. Watching Master Southwick do just that magnified by 100 was definitely inspiring and motivates me to train harder!
SIDE NOTE: this seminar also re-awoke my desire to compete. Not for any gain except for forcing myself out of my comfort zone- forcing me to perform under pressure. I think as an instructor it is easy (and comfortable) to feel like the big fish in a little pond, but this weekend reminded me how important it is to jump into a larger pond to really grow.
So thank you sir for being such a fine example (and thanks again for your critique on my poomsae- I seriously hope I can take advantage of your knowledge and experience again soon).
So the poomsae portion was definitely the martial art highlight of the weekend, but equally my favorite part was dinner Saturday night with all of you! Getting to meet you all in person was such a treat and it was great to see the face behind the computer screen. As the junior among the group it was also awesome to get to sit and eat and talk as peers. Every seminar dinner with seniors I have attended involved me sitting up straight, not speaking, and making sure everyone's glasses stayed full! It was a real treat to get to enjoy everyone's company as fellow TKD'ers. Each of you was even better in person than I had hoped! (A special thanks to iceman for keeping me company while waiting for our late flights- it was great to pick your brain!)
It is great to see other martial artists who walk the walk, and I am so glad that I went to the course this weekend. I came back disappointed, but at the same time the weekend exceeded my expectations.
We joke, but you really are awesome!
As everyone else has said, this was NOT what I expected. I was very disappointed in the course, and in the "test" at the end. As Master Southwick mentioned, maybe we should have all just walked out. The smarmy presentation by Bill Cho (in front of his students and parents) made my skin crawl. The attempt from GM Hyong to hypnotize us made me laugh. I can't help but wonder why someone who doesn't have money as their priority start a quality organization we can all stand behind?? But I guess the answer is they are all too busy teaching quality martial arts!
But on to the good stuff.
I would like to say that I did enjoy the demonstration seminar by Master Lee. I did not come to this event to sit through that type of seminar. But I felt he did a good job explaining HOW to demonstrate the important aspects of what you teach (respect, discipline, etc) when asked to do a "show". Most of his suggestions were ones that I felt I could honorably do to help demonstrate my (future) dojang. Again, this is not what I came for, but at least it showed me that there can be seminars to help school owners promote their dojang without it being all about the almighty dollar (cough cough bill cho cough cough).
The poomsae portion with Master Ahn was awesome! It was limited due to the fact that we had 100 people trying to do poomsae in a small room without any individual instruction. But getting to see him perform on Sunday was worth the price of admission alone. The same follows for watching MSUTKD perform!! I will say that was a definite highlight. His presentation was awesome, but the most impressive part was the fact that he was asked on the spot in front of 150 other black belts to perform Chonkwan and he did so masterfully. I can tell you right now- my group presentation of Keumgang SUCKED! It has been a looooong time since I have performed in front of a group and I know I didn't step up to the challenge the way I should have been able to. Watching Master Southwick do just that magnified by 100 was definitely inspiring and motivates me to train harder!
SIDE NOTE: this seminar also re-awoke my desire to compete. Not for any gain except for forcing myself out of my comfort zone- forcing me to perform under pressure. I think as an instructor it is easy (and comfortable) to feel like the big fish in a little pond, but this weekend reminded me how important it is to jump into a larger pond to really grow.
So thank you sir for being such a fine example (and thanks again for your critique on my poomsae- I seriously hope I can take advantage of your knowledge and experience again soon).
So the poomsae portion was definitely the martial art highlight of the weekend, but equally my favorite part was dinner Saturday night with all of you! Getting to meet you all in person was such a treat and it was great to see the face behind the computer screen. As the junior among the group it was also awesome to get to sit and eat and talk as peers. Every seminar dinner with seniors I have attended involved me sitting up straight, not speaking, and making sure everyone's glasses stayed full! It was a real treat to get to enjoy everyone's company as fellow TKD'ers. Each of you was even better in person than I had hoped! (A special thanks to iceman for keeping me company while waiting for our late flights- it was great to pick your brain!)
It is great to see other martial artists who walk the walk, and I am so glad that I went to the course this weekend. I came back disappointed, but at the same time the weekend exceeded my expectations.
We joke, but you really are awesome!
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