You always attack first

[talktalk]

Many people like to train "If you attack me with ..., I'll respond with ...".

I like to train, "When I attack, if you respond as ..., I'll do ...". In other words, all my training is to attack my opponent when he is "on guard".

If my opponent attacks first, I'll jump back to remain distance, I then jump back in and attack. IMO, this strategy can make fight simple.

What's your opinion on this approach?

There's no who first to attack or defend and only way to eliminate as soon as possible .

There are rules in your combat.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Psilent Knight]

only by a tenth of a second or so

Two things I have to say to that are:

1). A tenth of a second is still faster than a reaction

2). When it comes to a preemptive attack that tenth of a second is all you need. Especially if you are good at deception and have a good question to engage his brain before your preemptive strike.

Take Care and Have A Great Day,
Osu!

 

[jobo]

Two things I have to say to that are:

1). A tenth of a second is still faster than a reaction

2). When it comes to a preemptive attack that tenth of a second is all you need. Especially if you are good at deception and have a good question to engage his brain before your preemptive strike.

Take Care and Have A Great Day,
Osu!

I tenth of a sec,is the top end of human reaction time. Pre emtive strikinng isn't the easiest Decision to make. Fine if someone is walking at you with aggresion , as soon as they get in range ,pop em. But if somepne is shouting the odds from a distance or even more so if its an ambush attack where they have asked you for direction, there is a very good chance you have just punched them for being lost

 

[Psilent Knight]

I tenth of a sec,is the top end of human reaction time. Pre emtive strikinng isn't the easiest Decision to make.

Preemptive striking isn't the easiest decision to make for someone who either; has not trained for line ups and preemptive striking, lacks extensive actual fighting experience, does not understand what adrenaline is for and how it can help them with the right mindset and training, or all of these reasons or any combination of the aforementioned reasons.

Fine if someone is walking at you with aggresion , as soon as they get in range ,pop em.

That's right.

But if somepne is shouting the odds from a distance

Preemptive striking is not only near impossible from a distance but, even more so, unnecessary and possibly unwarranted. Preemptive striking is only applicable in close face-to-face range.

or even more so if its an ambush attack where they have asked you for direction, there is a very good chance you have just punched them for being lost

To me it's not that simple. I wouldn't preempt a person for just asking me for directions. What are the circumstances surrounding this scenario? Is it during lunchtime in the middle of the day downtown where everyone is out and about? Or is it 5 a.m. when it's still dark out while your are on your way to your car to leave for work? Is this person by himself? Is he dressed in a suspicious manner such as all black clothing with a black hoodie or jacket? Is his hood pulled over his face to where you can see his face or barely see it? Can you survey the area and determine whether or not there is another person nearby where it's possible for you to be ambushed?

I would never preempt someone for just asking me for directions nor would I advise anyone else to do so. What I would advise is that people learn how to be aware and coded up, survey the situation and make a decision based on the circumstances of the situation.

Take Care,
Osu!

 

[FriedRice]

Many people like to train "If you attack me with ..., I'll respond with ...".

I like to train, "When I attack, if you respond as ..., I'll do ...". In other words, all my training is to attack my opponent when he is "on guard".

If my opponent attacks first, I'll jump back to remain distance, I then jump back in and attack. IMO, this strategy can make fight simple.

What's your opinion on this approach?

It depends on what kind of a fighter you are or most, are. Counter-Fighters wait/let you go first in order for them to try to knock you out. It also depends on where you are and the laws.

 

[jobo]

Preemptive striking isn't the easiest decision to make for someone who either; has not trained for line ups and preemptive striking, lacks extensive actual fighting experience, does not understand what adrenaline is for and how it can help them with the right mindset and training, or all of these reasons or any combination of the aforementioned reasons.



That's right.



Preemptive striking is not only near impossible from a distance but, even more so, unnecessary and possibly unwarranted. Preemptive striking is only applicable in close face-to-face range.



To me it's not that simple. I wouldn't preempt a person for just asking me for directions. What are the circumstances surrounding this scenario? Is it during lunchtime in the middle of the day downtown where everyone is out and about? Or is it 5 a.m. when it's still dark out while your are on your way to your car to leave for work? Is this person by himself? Is he dressed in a suspicious manner such as all black clothing with a black hoodie or jacket? Is his hood pulled over his face to where you can see his face or barely see it? Can you survey the area and determine whether or not there is another person nearby where it's possible for you to be ambushed?

I would never preempt someone for just asking me for directions nor would I advise anyone else to do so. What I would advise is that people learn how to be aware and coded up, survey the situation and make a decision based on the circumstances of the situation.

Take Care,
Osu!

premtptive means before they hit you, whilst striking at distance is somewhat challenging, closing the distance and hitting them is quite acceptable, if perhaps unwise,if they have made their intent to harm you plain. But what if they are 8ft away to far to hit you, close enough to lunge. What to do then ???

it may have escaped your notice but people out after dark in hoodies get lost too, some times they have their friend with them.
in fact I'm not uncommly lost at night whilst wearing a hoodie

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Counter-Fighters wait/let you go first in order for them to try to knock you out.

The problem about a counter fighter is he may fall into his opponent's set up.

For example, When your opponent

1. kicks at your groin, if you drop your guard, you may expose your face for his punch.
2. throws a back fist at you, if you block it, his groin kick may come right after.
3. sweeps your leading leg, you may raise your leg, or put more weight on that leg. In either case, his punch will come toward your face.
4. uses a flying side kick at your leading leg knee joint from a 45 degree downward angle, it can put you in defense mode right at that moment. That will be his advantage.
5. circles around you, if you turn with him, you are fighting the way that he wants you to fight.
6. ...

In all chess games, whoever makes the 1st move will have advantage.

 

[CB Jones]

The problem with counter fighting is when you wake up afterwards and realize you failed to duck, dodge, slip, or counter.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The problem with counter fighting is when you wake up afterwards and realize you failed to duck, dodge, slip, or counter.

Agree! The counter fighter assumes that

- his opponent's attack is always real. What if his opponent's attack is fake?
- he can be faster than his opponent. What if his opponent is faster than him.
- ...

To avoid a problem is better than to let the problem to happen and then try to fix it. IMO, the counter fighter lets a problem to happen. To avoid the problem is don't give your opponent the space and time to generate his powerful and fast punch in the first place.

 

[jobo]

The problem about a counter fighter is he may fall into his opponent's set up.

For example, When your opponent

1. kicks at your groin, if you drop your guard, you may expose your face for his punch.
2. throws a back fist at you, if you block it, his groin kick may come right after.
3. sweeps your leading leg, you may raise your leg, or put more weight on that leg. In either case, his punch will come toward your face.
4. uses a flying side kick at your leading leg knee joint from a 45 degree downward angle, it can put you in defense mode right at that moment. That will be his advantage.
5. circles around you, if you turn with him, you are fighting the way that he wants you to fight.
6. ...

In all chess games, whoever makes the 1st move will have advantage.

the advantage of counter fighting on the street is that your opponent very likely untrained and will over reach go off balance or present you with a leg to grab, chances are that he is also drunk

you are certain he actually means you harm and not just showing off to his friends girl friend and so havent got his blood on your shirt for no reason

it puts you in a much stronger position legally
and you havent just punched some who was lost and looking for directions

 

[FriedRice]

The problem about a counter fighter is he may fall into his opponent's set up.

For example, When your opponent

1. kicks at your groin, if you drop your guard, you may expose your face for his punch.
2. throws a back fist at you, if you block it, his groin kick may come right after.
3. sweeps your leading leg, you may raise your leg, or put more weight on that leg. In either case, his punch will come toward your face.
4. uses a flying side kick at your leading leg knee joint from a 45 degree downward angle, it can put you in defense mode right at that moment. That will be his advantage.
5. circles around you, if you turn with him, you are fighting the way that he wants you to fight.
6. ...

In all chess games, whoever makes the 1st move will have advantage.

A. What you just listed (1-5), are NOT counters and in general, not what a Counter-Fighter does.

B. There are no ultimate techniques, everything has a counter

Counter-Fighters can also strike first, but in general they let their opponents go first to exploit the opening(s) created by attacking.

I think you are confusing a Counter with that of a Return. If you defend a strike and then follow up with a strike...therefore 2 moves.... then this is a Return....not a Counter.

 

[FriedRice]

The problem with counter fighting is when you wake up afterwards and realize you failed to duck, dodge, slip, or counter.

No, that's the problem of you, your art(s) and your coaching.

 

[FriedRice]

Agree! The counter fighter assumes that

- his opponent's attack is always real. What if his opponent's attack is fake?
- he can be faster than his opponent. What if his opponent is faster than him.
- ...
.

This is a good explanation as to why Floyd Mayweather can make $180,000,000 for 1 fight ...while some local Boxer being homeless and making $500 a fight if he's lucky enough that some other fighter dropped out of the undercard. But it doesn't mean that Counter-Fighting is inferior....as Mayweather is exactly, that.....he's mostly a Counter-Fighter.

 

[CB Jones]

Love pretty boy's shoulder roll defense.

My son's school uses that method a lot.

 

[jobo]

This is a good explanation as to why Floyd Mayweather can make $180,000,000 for 1 fight ...while some local Boxer being homeless and making $500 a fight if he's lucky enough that some other fighter dropped out of the undercardboxers who are. But it doesn't mean that Counter-Fighting is inferior....as Mayweather is exactly, that.....he's mostly a Counter-Fighter.

boxers who are so good they seldom get hit are usually good looking, rich still clever. The trick seems to be to retire before you are slow enough to hit

 

[FriedRice]

boxers who are so good they seldom get hit are usually good looking, rich still clever. The trick seems to be to retire before you are slow enough to hit

That wasn't the main point.

 

[Psilent Knight]

premtptive means before they hit you, whilst striking at distance is somewhat challenging, closing the distance and hitting them is quite acceptable, if perhaps unwise

Well I already made it clear that trying to preempt someone outside of face-to-face range is not only near impossible but UNNECESSARY. If a person is not in attacking range then he is may not be an immediate threat which means one should not feel that he has to or want to preemptively strike someone. This is what I was saying in my last post.

But what if they are 8ft away to far to hit you, close enough to lunge. What to do then ???

What to do then? I already expressed what NOT to do and that is preemptively attack that person since 8ft is NOT face-to-face range. If that person menacingly closes that distance in a threatening manner then you have to survey the situation and make a decision. Preemption being a possible decision.

it may have escaped your notice but people out after dark in hoodies get lost too, some times they have their friend with them.
in fact I'm not uncommly lost at night whilst wearing a hoodie

It may have escaped your notice but people dressed in a suspicious manner and approach others in the dark away from the rest of society are usually up to no good. Too many people have ended up in the hospital or (worse still) the morgue for having the forgiving and lax mindset that you have espoused in your post. No matter what anyone else says or feel about it I will NEVER adopt that kind of mindset and absolutely no one can convince me otherwise. In a self protection situation where I really feel that my life is on the line I'd much rather be tried by 12 instead of carried by 6.

Agree! The counter fighter assumes that

- he can be faster than his opponent. What if his opponent is faster than him.

EXACTLY! I couldn't agree more. Add to that the fact that action is ALWAYS FASTER than reaction and you have a recipe for disaster for the so called counter fighter. I'm not one to try and convince others or get people to change their minds. To each his own. All I can say is I know better than to adopt the romantic idea of being a counter fighter in a situation on the pavement arena where I stand to lose more than just "a fight".

This may come off as arrogant, condescending or even stand offish (though this is not my intention), but I can read some of these posts in this thread and can tell that some people posting here do not know what a life or death situation outside of the training hall is really, really like. I can tell when I am reading the posts of a person who doesn't have that brutal, raw, "it's your life or mine" type of experience but have, instead, romantic ideas about defeating someone on the streets using his Martial Arts skills. Believe me I can tell. Just like any NFL Football fan can tell that another person who says Jay Cutler is a much better QB than Tom Brady or they think it looks like Greenbay will play Dallas IN THE SUPERBOWL doesn't know NFL Football. You just know.

Take Care everyone and have a great day,
OSU!

 

[jobo]

That wasn't the main point.

I know i though id just throw brain damage. In again.
but the point is its suits him as he is notablly faster/ more mobile than most of his opponents'. Why chase them round when he can wait for them to commit to throw a punch , dodge and get off his own shot.

in the wider discussion. The same is true, its fine fighting counter punch if your faster than the other guy. It's a suicide mission if its the other way round

 

[jobo]

Well I already made it clear that trying to preempt someone outside of face-to-face range is not only near impossible but UNNECESSARY. If a person is not in attacking range then he is may not be an immediate threat which means one should not feel that he has to or want to preemptively strike someone. This is what I was saying in my last post.



What to do then? I already expressed what NOT to do and that is preemptively attack that person since 8ft is NOT face-to-face range. If that person menacingly closes that distance in a threatening manner then you have to survey the situation and make a decision. Preemption being a possible decision.



It may have escaped your notice but people dressed in a suspicious manner and approach others in the dark away from the rest of society are usually up to no good. Too many people have ended up in the hospital or (worse still) the morgue for having the forgiving and lax mindset that you have espoused in your post. No matter what anyone else says or feel about it I will NEVER adopt that kind of mindset and absolutely no one can convince me otherwise. In a self protection situation where I really feel that my life is on the line I'd much rather be tried by 12 instead of carried by 6.



EXACTLY! I couldn't agree more. Add to that the fact that action is ALWAYS FASTER than reaction and you have a recipe for disaster for the so called counter fighter. I'm not one to try and convince others or get people to change their minds. To each his own. All I can say is I know better than to adopt the romantic idea of being a counter fighter in a situation on the pavement arena where I stand to lose more than just "a fight".

This may come off as arrogant, condescending or even stand offish (though this is not my intention), but I can read some of these posts in this thread and can tell that some people posting here do not know what a life or death situation outside of the training hall is really, really like. I can tell when I am reading the posts of a person who doesn't have that brutal, raw, "it's your life or mine" type of experience but have, instead, romantic ideas about defeating someone on the streets using his Martial Arts skills. Believe me I can tell. Just like any NFL Football fan can tell that another person who says Jay Cutler is a much better QB than Tom Brady or they think it looks like Greenbay will play Dallas IN THE SUPERBOWL doesn't know NFL Football. You just know.

Take Care everyone and have a great day,
OSU!

you just appear to be making up hard and fast rules as you go along. face to face range means he has already head butted you, if that's his intent.
I have long arms and legs, I'm in range generaly before they are

 

[FriedRice]

I know i though id just throw brain damage. In again.
but the point is its suits him as he is notablly faster/ more mobile than most of his opponents'. Why chase them round when he can wait for them to commit to throw a punch , dodge and get off his own shot.

in the wider discussion. The same is true, its fine fighting counter punch if your faster than the other guy. It's a suicide mission if its the other way round

In general, you're still going to lose vs. faster fighters, regardless of whether you go first or not.