You always attack first

[Touch Of Death]

When it comes to goin to jail, a little karate is better than big time karate.

 

[Flying Crane]

As far as the OP and the abstraction of all of this as a strategy, sure it can be a good one. So if that is all someone wants to talk about, the strategy in the abstract, then have at it, that's fine.

But nothing happens in an abstract vacuum. Context is very important.

In a competion fight, aggression and a first-strike mentality can be very effective. It can have a place in self defense as well, particularly if you are set upon by a group of assailants. But again, context matters.

 

[CB Jones]

I hope you actually realize that real life is far more subtle and contains a whole lot more gray area than that.

Oh I realize that.

But I also realize....

You protect yourself first and foremost.

If you are honest and truly defending against a reasonable threat you should have no problem. There is nothing that says you have to wait for the attack for it to be self defense.


It's like that old myth of waiting for them to shoot before you shoot....no....you perceive the attack is imminent and you are in danger....you now can take appropriate actions.

 

[Flying Crane]

Oh I realize that.

But I also realize....

You protect yourself first and foremost.

If you are honest and truly defending against a reasonable threat you should have no problem. There is nothing that says you have to wait for the attack for it to be self defense.


It's like that old myth of waiting for them to shoot before you shoot....no....you perceive the attack is imminent and you are in danger....you now can take appropriate actions.

If you can convince a jury that your perception of a threat was reasonable, meaning that any reasonable person would also perceive the same threat under the same circumstances, then you will be ok. Of course the legal defense fees will still be yours to pay. That can cost tens and even hundreds of thousands of dollars, especially if you get convicted and then need to go through the appellate process. And the sleepless nights for months and even years at a time. These problems don't tend to go away quickly, even when you prevail. But this depends on circumstances, of course.

 

[CB Jones]

If you can convince a jury that your perception of a threat was reasonable, meaning that any reasonable person would also perceive the same threat under the same circumstances, then you will be ok. Of course the legal defense fees will still be yours to pay. That can cost tens and even hundreds of thousands of dollars, especially if you get convicted and then need to go through the appellate process. And the sleepless nights for months and even years at a time. These problems don't tend to go away quickly, even when you prevail. But this depends on circumstances, of course.

Your safety is more important.

When you are endangered...you address the threat. That is 1st priority.

Worry about the other once you are safe.

 

[Flying Crane]

Your safety is more important.

When you are endangered...you address the threat. That is 1st priority.

Worry about the other once you are safe.

I really hope for your sake that you never need to test your theory. The decision could go either way and it will be expensive, regardless.

Best of luck to you with it.

 

[Buka]

Many people like to train "If you attack me with ..., I'll respond with ...".

I like to train, "When I attack, if you respond as ..., I'll do ...". In other words, all my training is to attack my opponent when he is "on guard".

If my opponent attacks first, I'll jump back to remain distance, I then jump back in and attack. IMO, this strategy can make fight simple.

What's your opinion on this approach?

I like that approach. And tactically, it fits my personality. I am a patient man in real life, I have a very slow burning fuse, I'm good at verbally de-escalating situations. And I do not take bait at all. The only difference from what you said, for, me, is if my opponent attacks first - I'm flying straight into him. It has been my experience that when a person attacks, the very last thing that know how to deal with is their perceived target attacking them with much speed and vigor.

Sparring/training - I wait, trying to lull or trying to counter, then charge with total commitment. Competing - same thing. One of my greatest enjoyments in life is closing distance.

Rolling - I suck, I just keep moving.

 

[drop bear]

since you asked for peoples opinions, as usual , we would have to first clarify the context. sport, street fight or assault defense.
your concept will only apply to 2 out of the three. and even then it is mostly only going to be applicable to sport.
so for a martial sport sure have fun. for the other two situations...well... they way you are thinking about it, its not something i would waste time on.

Ha. That.
Exactly what I was talking about.

Where is @gpseymour?

 

[drop bear]

I really hope for your sake that you never need to test your theory. The decision could go either way and it will be expensive, regardless.

Best of luck to you with it.

The risk runs both ways.

I really hope you catch that first shot and not get your guts stomped out.

Anyway. if say someone slings a punch at me and I move back out of range and put my hands up. And then he puts his hands up and moves towards me.

I would certainly consider giving him a face punch in self defence should he come in range. which would be a forward agressive entry.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Many years ago, I got into a fight in the Shenyang northern train station in China. A soldier cut in line to buy train ticket. I asked him to get back to the end of the line. He refused. I took him down on the hard concrete floor. When I did that, I intentionally drop my body weight on top of his body and used him as a soft landing pillow.

3 Chinese policemen came and asked what had just happened. I told them, "We got into argument. Our bodies tangled, we both lose balance, and fell. His head hit on the ground. It was a pure accident." Those Chinese cops let me go. That soldier got his train ticket. I had my MA tested. Some justice was served. We all live happy ever after.

 

[Flying Crane]

Many years ago, I got into a fight in the Shenyang northern train station in China. A soldier cut in line to buy train ticket. I asked him to get back to the end of the line. He refused. I took him down on the hard concrete floor. When I did that, I intentionally drop my body weight on top of his body and used him as a soft landing pillow. 3 Chinese policemen came and asked what had just happened. I told them, "We got into argument. Our bodies tangled and we both lose balance and fell. His head hit on the ground. It was a pure accident." Those Chinese cops let me go. That soldier got his train ticket. I had my MA tested. We all live happy ever after.

Good thing it happened in China.

 

[drop bear]

I suplexed a guy who threatened to hit me about four times. After inviting me out into a back ally for a "talk". I thought enough was enough I am not waiting for that. He was suprised I acted all aggressively. His argument actually was which we were having from his back with my forearm in his throat was that he only said he wanted to hit me. Not he was going to.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Good thing it happened in China.

Not sure about that. When I was in

- Taiwan, I was anti-Taiwan independence.
- China, I was anti-communist.
- US, I am anti-... .

There are no safe place for me on earth.

 

[jobo]

It really depends on the circumstances. The law may see you as the aggressor and may chose to prosecute you. Self defense can be messy, when it comes to the legal side of it.

The story that the other guy tells may be just as compelling as your own. Maybe even more so, if he comes out the worse for it after a fight. So it's just something you need to be very careful about.

You may feel that you were defending yourself from an imminent attack. The other guy may claim that he had no intention of fighting, you were just having some strong words. Now then, who hit first, who escalated the situation into a physical assault? You did. You might be prosecuted. I'm not saying it's a guarantee. But you might.

yes I've had the court case, wounding with a weapon, was my charge, in thos case I was about to be attacked by three guys outside a pub and so I pre emtively hit them with my pool cue several times. I was aquited eventually, but even in the nightmare I was better off facing justice than being stomped on so I didn't really have a choice

 

[Flying Crane]

yes I've had the court case, wounding with a weapon, was my charge, in thos case I was about to be attacked by three guys outside a pub and so I pre emtively hit them with my pool cue several times. I was aquited eventually, but even in the nightmare I was better off facing justice than being stomped on so I didn't really have a choice

I'm glad it worked out for you. It doesn't always.

 

[jobo]

I'm glad it worked out for you. It doesn't always.

but what else could I do. If I had waited for an attack, it would have been tp late to defend myself

it all got rather silly, they worked for the local gangster as "security" so they were out to get me, I had to get the local hells angels involved to have a quite word.

 

[Flying Crane]

but what else could I do. If I had waited for an attack, it would have been tp late to defend myself

it all got rather silly, they worked for the local gangster as "security" so they were out to get me, I had to get the local hells angels involved to have a quite word.

Well, I never said you should just let yourself be stomped on. I can't speak for other nations, but in the US you do have the right to defend yourself. But, in the US, if you throw the first strike or make the first move to turn the situation physical, that then creates a situation where your actions may come under scrutiny.

If throwing the first shot is your fundamental strategy, then you may find yourself in a tough legal/criminal situation. It can be an effective strategy in a fight, but it can also land you in trouble, including behind bars.

Beware, and make sure you can justify your actions. In these discussions it is my impression that some people do not always do that.

 

[oaktree]

I don't always attack first I assess the situation. As always I assume the worse.
Preemptive strikes may be legal but they are more tricky to plead your case even when stand your ground is legal.

Saying I want to punch you is a slippery slope for preemptive strikes and stand your ground. Someone approaching you and getting close to your face saying it while their finger touches your head a better case.

A lot really depends on the situation at hand.
On the most part, I wouldn't preemptive strike.

 

[oaktree]

I suplexed a guy who threatened to hit me about four times. After inviting me out into a back ally for a "talk". I thought enough was enough I am not waiting for that. He was suprised I acted all aggressively. His argument actually was which we were having from his back with my forearm in his throat was that he only said he wanted to hit me. Not he was going to.

Um, why didn't you just walk away?
Personally I would have pressed charges but that's just me.

 

[oaktree]

Many years ago, I got into a fight in the Shenyang northern train station in China. A soldier cut in line to buy train ticket. I asked him to get back to the end of the line. He refused. I took him down on the hard concrete floor. When I did that, I intentionally drop my body weight on top of his body and used him as a soft landing pillow.

3 Chinese policemen came and asked what had just happened. I told them, "We got into argument. Our bodies tangled, we both lose balance, and fell. His head hit on the ground. It was a pure accident." Those Chinese cops let me go. That soldier got his train ticket. I had my MA tested. Some justice was served. We all live happy ever after.

Good thing he wasn't killed, could have been a lot worse trying to explain that to the police