Hey, K-man,
I was more referring to "Martial arts are often "war arts" focusing on killing someone before they can kill you."'
Ah, okay. I took it from your previous post:
All kata are designed to do that. Just very few people teach those applications.
Understandable, I think?
But to your point, there are some that may not quite fit that description, but that's a little beside the argument here.
However, in regard to our kata. Yes, they are a string of techniques but not random. Each technique may have 15 or more applications so it is not possible to have a two man drill that covers all applications moving through the entire kata. We do have simple two man drills that will go through the entire kata but in this instance Tori has only the first move set, whether it be strike or grab. From that first move, every move Tori makes is based on predictive response. Either he defends or he gets hit. If he defends then the defence is predictable and the bunkai continues. If not he gets hit, end of exercise.
First, I don't think I said anything about the kata being "random", that wouldn't make any sense whatsoever, would it! My background, so you know, includes Tani-ha Shito Ryu Shukokai Karate-do, and Rhee Tae Kwon Do, so I'm familiar with the way kata are presented there.
Actually, it can be done, and schools such as Katori Shinto Ryu manage it (by using the format as a way of "hiding" the actual methods of the art in a number of ways), but I do agree that it's not an easy thing to do with unarmed systems. I have done it with our systems before, making a "story" of a call-and-answer style approach, with one kata to begin with, the end (finish) being thwarted by the original attacker with another kata, which gets defeated with another one, and so on (typically three, four, or five combined that way).
Oh, and the way the Katori Ryu does it is this:
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Each sequence is made up of a lot of different "techniques", tied together and disguised, to a degree.
We do take techniques out of kata and train them as you described and in the Japanese form of Goju we had pre-arranged sparring or yakusoku kumite. I have taken that out of our training because I found most of it choreographed and not realistic. Once Tori has made the first move, that should be it. To say for example, "Tori strikes to the head right fist. Uke, tsabaki to the left, parry with right, strikes left Shuto across the throat. Tori spins to his left and strikes with right fist to head ....". HELLO! What makes this unrealistic is that Uke now has to deal with a choreographed response that does not take into account that Tori has a crushed trachea, can't breath and in reality we are moving behind ready to break his neck. That type of scenario was typical of the stuff I objected to in the Japanese Goju.
Ah, see I wouldn't say that it's unrealistic, I'd just look for what it's designed to teach (which may not be combative realism, honestly).
But to show you what we mean when we say "kata", here are a few from Koto Ryu. First is Keto:
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Then, one of the "attacking" ones that Himura was mentioning, this is Hehi:
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In Goju the Japanese kata are very much the same as the Okinawan but it would appear the Japanese like the kata to look good where the Okinawans are more concerned with how well it works. This probably has a lot to do with competition.
Yeah, different emphasis there. Interesting, though!
So the scenario that you described is exactly what we do, only we possibly do it more as a random free form (kyogi) rather than a formalised combination (bunkai).
Cool. This is just taken from your phrasing about kata, again I'm from a karate and TKD background, so I wasn't under the impression that kata was the singular teaching and training method used.
The other thing in the OP was basically a pre-emptive attack. We do practise those as well although not from a casual walking past scenario. Our pre-emptive strikes will depend on distance, whether you can hit and withdraw, whether there is more than one attacker etc.
Yep, same with us. We have kata that just hit and leap out, ones that follow up with a kick, or another strike, and ones that transition into throws. I'm still advising that the approach of the OP isn't the greatest plan in the world, and should probably be re-thought.