WTF Taekwondo goes semi-contact for head kicks

[ETinCYQX]

I'm inclined to think this is a "fluff" rule designed to win some favor from the safety zealots outside of Taekwondo rather than an intended game changer. I do not think Taekwondo at a high level should be affected much by this although I could be wrong, it happened once

Ultimately though, as much as I like to pretend what the WTF does affects how I teach, it simply isn't the case. I don't have any students who are prepared to compete at a high enough level for this rule to affect them and we don't allow head kicks for color belts in nfld at all, so this is essentially a moot point for my situation in taekwondo right now.

 

[Gorilla]

Not a fan of this rule. We will change strategy. More head kicking not less.

We need the electronic head gear. From what I understand Daedo electronic head gear works pretty wel.

 

[andyjeffries]

I'm inclined to think this is a "fluff" rule designed to win some favor from the safety zealots outside of Taekwondo rather than an intended game changer.

I actually think it's less about safety and more about removing the judging problems that have affected Olympic Taekwondo in recent years. With the other martial arts trying to get in and there being high profile judging problems in the press, maybe this is a good thing (as a temporary measure while other options are considered).

I do not think Taekwondo at a high level should be affected much by this although I could be wrong, it happened once

I think if it's a long term thing, I think it will be affected by this considerably. For a start it takes the risk out of movements. Which would you rather do - lift a leg and throw three quick, low-power head kicks in the hope of a maximum of 9 points or aim one hard body shot for a maximum of 1 point. It's going to make high flicking kicks the order of the day.

Also, when going in for an attack you have to be aware of head kick counters from a knock out point of view (losing 3 points is bad but recoverable, being knocked out - not so much). So if the game changes from hard head kicks to multiple light ones it means that people can be more fearless in going in for multiple light head kicks without the risk of knock out.

I think it will actually be affected less at the lower levels.

There are distinctly two types of Taekwondo, the lower national level (regional comps) where it's all thumping and clashing and the higher international level where it's a lot more skilled and smoother. I think the thumping lower levels will be affected less due to the higher skill/strength/flexibility requirements of multiple head kicks from a single leg lift.

I hope I'm wrong and you're right, and this is one of two predictions that I hope I'm wrong on (the other being the WTF dropping the requirement for Kukkiwon Dan and only requiring their own athlete licences in the future thereby transitioning in to a true/pure sport rather than a martial art/sport).

 

[andyjeffries]

This is not a new standard, but rather something that they moved away from briefly and have now brought back. The reason why they moved away from it before because it was unworkable.

Can you give some reasons why it was unworkable? If it was brought in before and stopped, why was it stopped?

Reasons I can guess are : too many head shots landing (so harder to count/score), head to foot rather than foot to head. But I wasn't aware of it being brought in before so I can't remember the actual downsides that happened.

 

[Manny]

Grande dilema my friends!! From the sport side I can think that this new rule can be benefical, however picture this: fighter A) raises his leg a little bit and with the point of the toes touched the helmet or face WOW that a 3 pointer right! but now fighter B) must score with a solid head kick or at least multiple kicks to a calibrated chest protector that needs so much force to score, I don't think this is fair at all.

If olimpic/WTF fights will use calibrated electronic chest protectors THEN calibrated electronic helmets MUST be used!!! AND let the machines judge waht is a point and who is the winner and eliminate the chair judges with the silly push buttons.

From the NON sport point of view a nice kick to the body or the head is the one which at least cause disconfort and a little disorentetion.

I think if TKD wants to remain in the olimpics all the gear must be electronic and only a central referee to conduct the fight.

Manny

 

[Cyriacus]

Grande dilema my friends!! From the sport side I can think that this new rule can be benefical, however picture this: fighter A) raises his leg a little bit and with the point of the toes touched the helmet or face WOW that a 3 pointer right! but now fighter B) must score with a solid head kick or at least multiple kicks to a calibrated chest protector that needs so much force to score, I don't think this is fair at all.

If olimpic/WTF fights will use calibrated electronic chest protectors THEN calibrated electronic helmets MUST be used!!! AND let the machines judge waht is a point and who is the winner and eliminate the chair judges with the silly push buttons.

From the NON sport point of view a nice kick to the body or the head is the one which at least cause disconfort and a little disorentetion.

I think if TKD wants to remain in the olimpics all the gear must be electronic and only a central referee to conduct the fight.

Manny

Even better: Fighter A raises His leg, and flicks a light Kick into His opponent, scoring 3 points.
Meanwhile, Fighter B totally ignores it because it isnt allowed to be terribly dangerous, and fires a volley of full power kicks into A's Body.

 

[Manny]

Even better: Fighter A raises His leg, and flicks a light Kick into His opponent, scoring 3 points.
Meanwhile, Fighter B totally ignores it because it isnt allowed to be terribly dangerous, and fires a volley of full power kicks into A's Body.

Good point however with a calibrated electronic chest protector you can even trow a volley of kicks and not all counts as a point, so I think aa calibrated electronic helmet is mandatory. Some years back my sambonim Who is a certified international referee told me that the necesary force to score to the head with a kick is about 20-30%, this means that a touch or a slap to the head does not count so who is the expert who is gona say the kick was more than 30% in force? for that you need a calibrated instrument.

I think we must ask for calibrated chest and calibrated helmets and allow more punches to the torso to score, with both electronic devices and allow 1 (one) point per kick or punch to the torso no matter if it is a spining or jumping/spining kick and two points for a kick to the head no matter if it's a straight dolly chagui or a momdolyo chagui things can be better.

Gosh I remeber the old days where each competitor tried to nail down the oponent not just touched him/her and the score was on paper, and the winner was the one who has more points in the paper. Yes this is stone age but I don't recall stop the fight everitime with a silly colored card to ask for reply and see who make the point.

Manny

 

[Cyriacus]

Good point however with a calibrated electronic chest protector you can even trow a volley of kicks and not all counts as a point, so I think aa calibrated electronic helmet is mandatory. Some years back my sambonim Who is a certified international referee told me that the necesary force to score to the head with a kick is about 20-30%, this means that a touch or a slap to the head does not count so who is the expert who is gona say the kick was more than 30% in force? for that you need a calibrated instrument.

I think we must ask for calibrated chest and calibrated helmets and allow more punches to the torso to score, with both electronic devices and allow 1 (one) point per kick or punch to the torso no matter if it is a spining or jumping/spining kick and two points for a kick to the head no matter if it's a straight dolly chagui or a momdolyo chagui things can be better.

Gosh I remeber the old days where each competitor tried to nail down the oponent not just touched him/her and the score was on paper, and the winner was the one who has more points in the paper. Yes this is stone age but I don't recall stop the fight everitime with a silly colored card to ask for reply and see who make the point.

Manny

Oh, it might not score. But it could hurt - And being a bit hurt can give the unhurt fighter a bit of an advantage They wouldnt otherwise have if Theyd had to actually avoid the Kick to the Head.

 

[armortkd]

I'm siding with Glenn on this!!! It is a lot easier to view impact over touch thru video analysis. What troubles me at the World/Olympic level even more than the subjective/old hogu system is how it's gonna change how coaches coach and how fighters fight. But here's an issue the WTF isn't seeing. How can we convince to a new parent, potential athlete, and casual spectator that you hit the electronic hogu with a lot of power and technique yet a simple touch with no impact constitutes a point with 3 or 4 points. Yes, I know head shots are more difficult. We're gonna see a new breed of athletes constantly covering their head and cut kicking.

Don't tell me this is about safety!!! Design a better helmet!!! All international TKD athletes train extensively and aren't gonna pull their kicks. Any death that has resulted in the ring has come from a head concussion in training then a 2nd head shot within the 30 days or a head shot in an earlier match that the referee should of stopped the athlete coming competing. Not if this was for ages 12 & under, I'm all for it!!!

 

[ATC]

...We need the electronic head gear. From what I understand Daedo electronic head gear works pretty wel.

Yes the Daedo E-head gear works quite well. We use them in the dojang all the time and only need chair refs to score turning points. Most of the time we dont even use a chair ref as we just have one person sit at the computer and add the point when the spinning kicks is delivered. If not then we stop the match and tell them to add the point. I was quite suprised at how well the head gear worked.

Oh and the head gear is set for power independant of the hogu. We set it pretty low for the kids. Simple taps to the head score. For the adults you really need to bang the head. We had a couple of dizzy walking people when we had it set really high and it did not score. But that was a close to max setting.

 

[terryl965]

Yes the Daedo head gear is great and I like them, but the problem I see is this somebody is getting three point for just barely touching someone head. This will take away body shots maybe not for the elite level fighters but certainly at all qualifiers and such. If I know I can hit the head lightly and get three points why would I work the body shots. We have the technology to make better head gear to with stand the impact from a kick. Remember those Macho XP helmaits that had the bigger area of protection around the ears and sides but was giving up on. They was made to help protect the athletes and was a great helmit, I still have them in my storage unit they had extra hard foam on the inside around the ears and in the back of the head. Whay can't we make a better helmit and get rid of this rule?

 

[ATC]

Yes the Daedo head gear is great and I like them, but the problem I see is this somebody is getting three point for just barely touching someone head. This will take away body shots maybe not for the elite level fighters but certainly at all qualifiers and such. If I know I can hit the head lightly and get three points why would I work the body shots. We have the technology to make better head gear to with stand the impact from a kick. Remember those Macho XP helmaits that had the bigger area of protection around the ears and sides but was giving up on. They was made to help protect the athletes and was a great helmit, I still have them in my storage unit they had extra hard foam on the inside around the ears and in the back of the head. Whay can't we make a better helmit and get rid of this rule?

Because you need to have a complete game to be able to setup the head shots. I you come out and just try for the head then you will lose as you only have a limited game. It not that easy to just hit the head at will. You still have to be pretty good. And just because any head tap is a score does not mean that you simply can just go out and try to touch the head with a tap. You still have to have speed and speed generates power. Hitting the head is not a say so and it is done deal. I have seen people rack up 10 or more points to the body and win, all the while the opponent was trying to only hit the head. This will not effect good competitors. So so or bad competitors will be point gapped or ceiling ruled pretty easily.

 

[terryl965]

Because you need to have a complete game to be able to setup the head shots. I you come out and just try for the head then you will lose as you only have a limited game. It not that easy to just hit the head at will. You still have to be pretty good. And just because any head tap is a score does not mean that you simply can just go out and try to touch the head with a tap. You still have to have speed and speed generates power. Hitting the head is not a say so and it is done deal. I have seen people rack up 10 or more points to the body and win, all the while the opponent was trying to only hit the head. This will not effect good competitors. So so or bad competitors will be point gapped or ceiling ruled pretty easily.

I understand that but lets use the Texas state tournament this year. I saw alot of competitors that they through more head shots than body shots. I also understand the concept of what it takes to be on top and stay there, but I also know alot of school spend more time working head kicks because of the point total and now they will work it even more. Me it does not effect us or my players one bit, we like the body and we try to knock people out with a great body shot, but we still go to the head just not twenty times in a two minute fight.

 

[tamaro]

Unfortunately while KOs to the head are still allowed, this rule will have little effect. Most tournaments I went to already scored any head touch. Some people say KOs are great, but they damage more the sport than anything. As an instructor, seeing the parents of kid students watch an adult match with KOs is kind of a bad experience. They suddenly realize what their kids' future holds if they continue to practice... That isn't a positive thing in any sport or activity. Also it shows much more martial superiority and sportsmanship to control a kick to the head, scoring without hurting the adversary, than simply sweep his head off.

 

[RobinTKD]

Unfortunately while KOs to the head are still allowed, this rule will have little effect. Most tournaments I went to already scored any head touch. Some people say KOs are great, but they damage more the sport than anything. As an instructor, seeing the parents of kid students watch an adult match with KOs is kind of a bad experience. They suddenly realize what their kids' future holds if they continue to practice... That isn't a positive thing in any sport or activity. Also it shows much more martial superiority and sportsmanship to control a kick to the head, scoring without hurting the adversary, than simply sweep his head off.

I'm not sure that's true, parents let their kids go to boxing classes and compete, and I'm sure they all know that KO's are a big part of boxing.

 

[tamaro]

Parents are not all the same. Many don't even attend their sons competitions, so they don't have any idea. Also, kids competitions are usually not on the same day as those of adults, so parents that do attend, don't get to see any full contact. But those that attend and happen to see an adult combat where there's a KO get pretty upset, especially mothers.

Also, seeing a KO on TV or Youtube is not the same as seeing it live.

 

[RobinTKD]

I suppose it all comes down to personal experience, the full contact competitions i've been to have had the juniors and seniors spar on the same day, with KO's in both divisions.

 

[ATC]

I suppose it all comes down to personal experience, the full contact competitions i've been to have had the juniors and seniors spar on the same day, with KO's in both divisions.

Juniors are 14-17 years of age and yes they are allowed full contact to the head, but youth is 13 and below and full contact to the head is not allowed by law. In the United States of America that is.

 

[puunui]

Can you give some reasons why it was unworkable? If it was brought in before and stopped, why was it stopped? Reasons I can guess are : too many head shots landing (so harder to count/score), head to foot rather than foot to head. But I wasn't aware of it being brought in before so I can't remember the actual downsides that happened.

The biggest reason for rescinding the touch rule before was a philosophical one: The feeling was we shouldn't be awarding the most points for the least contact. Also it changes the game, which it has. The beauty of taekwondo competition is being lost, replaced by ugly kicks and strategies for winning.

The rationale for bringing it back was people felt the impact rule was applied inconsistently. How much is impact? There is no bright line on that one. However, with contact only, it was felt that could and would be applied more consistently.