Full contact wtf taekwondo rule-set

[Axkick1]

Hello everyone, I just wanted to broast a theory for an alternative taekwondo ruleset I'd like to see the WTF adopt but still keep the Olympic style rule set for those that enjoy it. My idea would be: to have the rules where fighters only wear a hogu (similar to taekwondo sparring in the 1980's) , all the points and targets from Olympic taekwondo would be applicable except low leg kicks and more continuous punches to the body would be adopted similar to that of kyokushkin. This would help give taekwondo practitioners who want a more full contact form of competition an outlet to express it. So what do you guys think? It's just a first rough draft of the rule set but I'd appreciate any feed back and constructive criticism.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Get rid of the hogu entirely. Punch anywhere. Kick anywhere (OK, maybe restrict the groin and throat). Allow sweeps, throws and takedowns.

 

[JR 137]

Get rid of the hogu entirely. Punch anywhere. Kick anywhere (OK, maybe restrict the groin and throat). Allow sweeps, throws and takedowns.

Seems like Enshin karate's Sabaki Challenge (minus punches to the head) and Daido Juku's Kudo (but adding head and hand protection so they can punch the head). Kudo kind of recently added joint locks and chokes though.

Not that there's anything wrong with your idea by any means. I like it.

 

[WaterGal]

How would you score it?

 

[Leo89]

I'd just spar or cross train in kickboxing, I don't get why someone else doesn't just open up a new tournament organization that also recognizes kukkiwon style taekwondo, and makes or has more amateur style kickboxing rules compared to WTF ruleset.

Make it so that who ever gets K.O'd or is unable to continue the loser.

I think WTF has its rules for safety reasons though.

 

[Axkick1]

Seems like Enshin karate's Sabaki Challenge (minus punches to the head) and Daido Juku's Kudo (but adding head and hand protection so they can punch the head). Kudo kind of recently added joint locks and chokes though.

Not that there's anything wrong with your idea by any means. I like it.

Well I still would want to keep the beautiful kicks of taekwondo. That's what it's known for. I figure if you start adding in face punches and take downs and grappling then it isn't taekwondo. That's jus my opinion though. I love how everyone is getting involved and voiceing their views. I've been very passionate about have an alternative full contact form of taekwondo for a while in addition to the Olympic style.

 

[Axkick1]

I'd just spar or cross train in kickboxing, I don't get why someone else doesn't just open up a new tournament organization that also recognizes kukkiwon style taekwondo, and makes or has more amateur style kickboxing rules compared to WTF ruleset.

Make it so that who ever gets K.O'd or is unable to continue the loser.

I think WTF has its rules for safety reasons though.

It might be safe but sometimes it can be boring and unrealistic. I love our point of view. And I think a lot of people are starting to think this way

 

[Leo89]

It might be safe but sometimes it can be boring and unrealistic. I love our point of view. And I think a lot of people are starting to think this way

But didn't you just say you didn't want face punches, takedowns, (which are part of kukkiwon taekwondo), because it wouldn't be taekwondo any more?

We have effective jireugi, many which are punches to the face, chin, philtrum, even continues punches, like the C-punch (or U-punch), really if you added bobbing and weaving from boxing (as well as punching drills), then that would help improve the style.

There's even a pull-in punch (I've only used this once in karate after being kicked in the balls, the other student started giggling and side-stepping, so i grabbed their gi and punched them hard in the face, not quite the way tkd does it, but the fact it's there, shows that it should be practiced and can and should be used in sparring).

And if most fights go to the ground, adding submission grappling to keep your students safe would be a good idea.

The name translates to the way of the fist and foot, and if grappling uses the same parts as a striking art, how exactly would it no longer be TKD?

 

[Axkick1]

But didn't you just say you didn't want face punches, takedowns, (which are part of kukkiwon taekwondo), because it wouldn't be taekwondo any more?

We have effective jireugi, many which are punches to the face, chin, philtrum, even continues punches, like the C-punch (or U-punch), really if you added bobbing and weaving from boxing (as well as punching drills), then that would help improve the style.

There's even a pull-in punch (I've only used this once in karate after being kicked in the balls, the other student started giggling and side-stepping, so i grabbed their gi and punched them hard in the face, not quite the way tkd does it, but the fact it's there, shows that it should be practiced and can and should be used in sparring).

And if most fights go to the ground, adding submission grappling to keep your students safe would be a good idea.

The name translates to the way of the fist and foot, and if grappling uses the same parts as a striking art, how exactly would it no longer be TKD?

Hey man all excellent points. I'd like to have everything you just stated. The reason I'm heistant is because I've realized the kukkiwon can be somewhat strict and idk if they would even like the idea of what I've said here. I'd like to do everything you just said plus keep the fancy kicks of Tkd. Plus someone would have to figure out a way to score it all or if there should be scoring at all.

 

[Leo89]

Hey man all excellent points. I'd like to have everything you just stated. The reason I'm heistant is because I've realized the kukkiwon can be somewhat strict and idk if they would even like the idea of what I've said here. I'd like to do everything you just said plus keep the fancy kicks of Tkd. Plus someone would have to figure out a way to score it all or if there should be scoring at all.

I'm pretty sure that the kukkiwon can not govern how you run your school.

Stopping you from giving students false information/calling out fake kukkiwon black belts? I'd hope to God they put a stop to those.

But if I want to teach submission grappling, bobbing, weaving (hell maybe even wing chuns chi Sao), to improve my students self defense strategies, then I'm sure they'd have no problem with it.

There's a difference in creating a hybrid style vs understanding and patching up a style.

I feel that, personally coming from an EPAK system (no, I didn't master it), that taekwondo has most of the tools you'll need for self defense, just maybe a few small tweaks here and there and some fundamental understanding of techniques (all of them, no matter how confusing/flashy they seem) could go a long way.

 

[Axkick1]

I'm pretty sure that the kukkiwon can not govern how you run your school.

Stopping you from giving students false information/calling out fake kukkiwon black belts? I'd hope to God they put a stop to those.

But if I want to teach submission grappling, bobbing, weaving (hell maybe even wing chuns chi Sao), to improve my students self defense strategies, then I'm sure they'd have no problem with it.

There's a difference in creating a hybrid style vs understanding and patching up a style.

I feel that, personally coming from an EPAK system (no, I didn't master it), that taekwondo has most of the tools you'll need for self defense, just maybe a few small tweaks here and there and some fundamental understanding of techniques (all of them, no matter how confusing/flashy they seem) could go a long way.

Yea that's cool go ahead do that dude lol I'm not saying not too. I do it myself in my own personal training. My main thing though was that i want to kukkiwo and the wtf to craft a set of full contact rules. Basically for them to subliminally admit that there is a full contact form of sparring in taekwondo and it's very practical.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Yea that's cool go ahead do that dude lol I'm not saying not too. I do it myself in my own personal training. My main thing though was that i want to kukkiwo and the wtf to craft a set of full contact rules. Basically for them to subliminally admit that there is a full contact form of sparring in taekwondo and it's very practical.

If you want that, it would be better to contact them directly. I don't think they're likely to find out your opinion through this forum.

As for my opinion, if you want to keep the WTF ruleset in tact, I would change it simply so there has to be "reasonable power" in the strike, otherwise it doesn't count, but leave the rest of the rule set alone. That would hopefully get rid of the game of 'foot tag', as none of those strikes would score them points.

If that doesn't work, or is not enough, then change something else. But if you change too much at once, it's tougher to tell which changes were good and which ones weren't.

 

[drop bear]

How does sanda score? They still keep flash kicking wit strikes and takedowns.

 

[KangTsai]

As for my opinion, if you want to keep the WTF ruleset in tact, I would change it simply so there has to be "reasonable power" in the strike, otherwise it doesn't count, but leave the rest of the rule set alone. That would hopefully get rid of the game of 'foot tag', as none of those strikes would score them points.

If that doesn't work, or is not enough, then change something else. But if you change too much at once, it's tougher to tell which changes were good and which ones weren't.

There already is such rule, and it's enforced by electronic measures. I think foot tag would go away if grappling and punching to the face was allowed, and if competitors weren't broken up. I think the last one is the best solution.

 

[drop bear]

How does sanda score? They still keep flash kicking wit strikes and takedowns.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I'm pretty sure that the kukkiwon can not govern how you run your school.

That is correct. The KKW has a set of minimum standards for rank (bear in mind that they only register Dan ranks...). Many schools (I suspect most...) add requirements beyond those minimum standards.

Stopping you from giving students false information/calling out fake kukkiwon black belts? I'd hope to God they put a stop to those.

How would they do that? They do maintain a database of people who have registered rank with the KKW, but it can be difficult to use, since you have to know the persons full name, nationality, and date of birth.

But if I want to teach submission grappling, bobbing, weaving (hell maybe even wing chuns chi Sao), to improve my students self defense strategies, then I'm sure they'd have no problem with it.

They wouldn't care in the least.

As for scoring... keep it simple. Score it the way boxing is scored. Get rid of the hogu. Get rid of the electronics. Stop interrupting the round every time someone gets hit. You hit them, you score a point. You knock them down, you score points. You knock them out, you win.