WSL pivoting clip

[wckf92]

I spy with my little eyes....an M,....and a W

 

[KPM]

Yes, pivoting on the toes moves your base away from the point of contact

Only if you allow your body to swing across as I described above and as WSL illustrates in his video. If you pivot around a central point and don't swing your body across, then pivoting near the balls of the feet is no different than pivoting on the heels in regards to the relationship of your base to the point of contact. Again, its not a matter of what point you use on your foot to do the pivot. Its a matter of what happens to your body/base as you pivot.

 

[LFJ]

Only if you allow your body to swing across as I described above and as WSL illustrates in his video. If you pivot around a central point and don't swing your body across, then pivoting near the balls of the feet is no different than pivoting on the heels in regards to the relationship of your base to the point of contact. Again, its not a matter of what point you use on your foot to do the pivot. Its a matter of what happens to your body/base as you pivot.

Pivoting on the balls of the feet causes the feet to move in the opposite direction of your line of force and end up further from the target.

Plus, those who pivot on the balls of the feet often do it in order to sway their body off the incoming line. This is the method WSL is talking about here.

 

[guy b]

Only if you allow your body to swing across as I described above and as WSL illustrates in his video. If you pivot around a central point and don't swing your body across, then pivoting near the balls of the feet is no different than pivoting on the heels in regards to the relationship of your base to the point of contact. Again, its not a matter of what point you use on your foot to do the pivot. Its a matter of what happens to your body/base as you pivot.

Heels are the backstop of your base. Pivoting on front of foot moves your foot and your base further away.

 

[KPM]

Plus, those who pivot on the balls of the feet often do it in order to sway their body off the incoming line. This is the method WSL is talking about here.

And, as I have described several times now....you don't have to sway your body off the incoming line when you pivot on a spot other than the heels. Therefore, the problem is not what part of the foot you pivot on.....but rather whether you allow your body to sway off the incoming line.

 

[KPM]

Heels are the backstop of your base. Pivoting on front of foot moves your foot and your base further away.

If you pivot the way WSL demo's, then yes. But you can pivot on a spot other than the heel without moving your base away. Its simply a matter of bending the knees.

 

[guy b]

If you pivot the way WSL demo's, then yes. But you can pivot on a spot other than the heel without moving your base away. Its simply a matter of bending the knees.

You can pivot on a spot further forward on the foot and have your weight over it, but your heels, the backstop position your feet will assume when you receive force, will be moved further away from the target.

If you intend to exert or receive force while pivoting then not optimal, unless you wish to move away from target while dealing with force.

 

[KPM]

You can pivot on a spot further forward on the foot and have your weight over it, but your heels, the backstop position your feet will assume when you receive force, will be moved further away from the target.

If you intend to exert or receive force while pivoting then not optimal, unless you wish to move away from target while dealing with force.

If you actually bend your knees, then the central vertical line that you are pivoting around stays stationary and does not swing to the side. You send force with a kinetic chain that pushes off from the ball of the foot, not from the heel. The heel on the ground absorbs when RECEIVING force, which shouldn't be happening while you are pivoting. Boxers certainly don't punch hard with their rear heel on the ground.

 

[LFJ]

And, as I have described several times now....you don't have to sway your body off the incoming line when you pivot on a spot other than the heels. Therefore, the problem is not what part of the foot you pivot on.....but rather whether you allow your body to sway off the incoming line.

Who said you have to? WSL was talking about the method of doing so, compared to his method.

You send force with a kinetic chain that pushes off from the ball of the foot, not from the heel. The heel on the ground absorbs when RECEIVING force, which shouldn't be happening while you are pivoting. Boxers certainly don't punch hard with their rear heel on the ground.

I think we've had this discussion before. Do we need to pull up the tennis player pics again?

 

[Vajramusti]

What do you mean supposedly? Its just an ideal weight distribution point for certain lineages including my own. I prefer it to turning on the heels.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Do it the dudewingchun way-your way.

No worries here.

 

[KPM]

Who said you have to? WSL was talking about the method of doing so, compared to his method.

I will explain again, for what....the third or fourth time? In that video clip WSL is showing the difference between the two pivots and references pivoting on the heel vs. pivoting near the toes. I pointed out that the true difference is not whether you pivot on the heels or near the toes, but whether you allow your body to swing off of the line. Is that so hard to follow?

 

[LFJ]

I will explain again, for what....the third or fourth time? In that video clip WSL is showing the difference between the two pivots and references pivoting on the heel vs. pivoting near the toes. I pointed out that the true difference is not whether you pivot on the heels or near the toes, but whether you allow your body to swing off of the line. Is that so hard to follow?

And I'll explain for my 3rd time...

You know many who pivot on the toes do so to sway their body off the incoming line, right?

That's the method WSL was comparing to his own.

Why is that so hard to follow?

 

[guy b]

I will explain again, for what....the third or fourth time? In that video clip WSL is showing the difference between the two pivots and references pivoting on the heel vs. pivoting near the toes. I pointed out that the true difference is not whether you pivot on the heels or near the toes, but whether you allow your body to swing off of the line. Is that so hard to follow?

Pivoting on toes moves your base away from the opponent, pivoting on heels does not

 

[geezer]

Am I the only one who sees that you and KPM are saying the same thing but still managing to turn it into an argument?

 

[geezer]

Pivoting on toes moves your base away from the opponent, pivoting on heels does not

In some cases this can be a good thing. BTW I'm a "center-of-the-foot, one-foot at a time" turner. Something like what LT picked up in his years under Leung Sheung (See Joy's post on turning).

 

[KPM]

And I'll explain for my 3rd time...

You know many who pivot on the toes do so to sway their body off the incoming line, right?

That's the method WSL was comparing to his own.

Why is that so hard to follow?

Because......he explained it as being the pivot point that counts. IT IS NOT! It is the whether the body sways to the side or not that counts.

 

[KPM]

Pivoting on toes moves your base away from the opponent, pivoting on heels does not

And I have pointed out multiple times.....swaying the body to the side is what moves your base away from the opponent. Pivoting near the balls of the feet does not when you keep your weight distro 50/50, keep the knees bent, and pivot around your central pivot point. In that case, there is no difference between pivoting on the heels and pivoting near the balls of the feet. WSL is right in the video clip, but for the wrong reason.

 

[guy b]

Because......he explained it as being the pivot point that counts. IT IS NOT! It is the whether the body sways to the side or not that counts.

Pivot point is important in terms of how your base changes

 

[KPM]

Pivot point is important in terms of how your base changes

Fine. You believe whatever you want. I'm done trying to explain something to someone that doesn't want to understand.

 

[guy b]

Simple geometry. Your feet are moving away from the opponent, and so is your base