Wrist lock names?

[oftheherd1]

I'll try that when going for the elbow. Where is the pressure point on the elbow?

Easy to say, best learned by trial and error. It is on the inside of the elbow but towards the top and behind/against the radius. You will know on yourself or a practice opponent when you find it.

 

[oftheherd1]

Easy to say, best learned by trial and error. It is on the inside of the elbow but towards the top and behind/against the radius. You will know on yourself or a practice opponent when you find it.

BTW, do you have a basic defense to a right wrist grab where you move your wrist out and over the opponent's arm while you reach with your left arm to a pressure point in the elbow to prevent resistance, as you move under his arm and behind him and into a hammer lock by grabbing his collar with your right arm, and pull back on his head with your left arm? Depending on an opponent's anatomy, they are about the same.

 

[Buka]

This thread is really difficult to understand. Can you guys put up some photos? I just want to follow along.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I taught this "Devil's hand shake" to a group of kids in the street of Brazil and they loved it.

 

[oftheherd1]

This thread is really difficult to understand. Can you guys put up some photos? I just want to follow along.

I agree. However is is very difficult to explain some of the grappling moves, but much easier to demonstrate them. I have tried in MT enough to have seen that. It usually requires a lengthy explanation and since I don't think most members are dense or illiterate, I have to assume they have trouble conceptualizing what I write, or are too easily bored. Of course it could be my writing style, but at least one or two should be able to get it.

 

[skribs]

I agree. However is is very difficult to explain some of the grappling moves, but much easier to demonstrate them. I have tried in MT enough to have seen that. It usually requires a lengthy explanation and since I don't think most members are dense or illiterate, I have to assume they have trouble conceptualizing what I write, or are too easily bored. Of course it could be my writing style, but at least one or two should be able to get it.

I just assume the others are dense or illiterate.

I have pictures, will post a new thread soon.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I teach 5 Basic wrist locks (the control is the wrist) based on the relationship to the centerline.
S- straight toward the core
B-back (back away from the center line)
C-crossing the line
D-Downward
U-Upward
From that there are several variations of the base lock:
S1, S2, S3,..., B1, B2, B3,..., C1, C2...,etc.
And of course there is the Right and Left variations.

Danny, I'd be interested in understanding that nomenclature a bit. Could you point me to something that shows the C/D/U distinction, or is that something you can explain in words?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I agree. However is is very difficult to explain some of the grappling moves, but much easier to demonstrate them. I have tried in MT enough to have seen that. It usually requires a lengthy explanation and since I don't think most members are dense or illiterate, I have to assume they have trouble conceptualizing what I write, or are too easily bored. Of course it could be my writing style, but at least one or two should be able to get it.

I find it difficult to explain in writing, because most of my habits of explanation depend upon a visual. I've mostly taught small classes, so I don't really even have to worry about people not being able to get a clear view. If I had a sight-impaired student, I'd have to entirely re-learn some of my descriptions.

 

[oftheherd1]

I find it difficult to explain in writing, because most of my habits of explanation depend upon a visual. I've mostly taught small classes, so I don't really even have to worry about people not being able to get a clear view. If I had a sight-impaired student, I'd have to entirely re-learn some of my descriptions.

I have found that even with persons with perfect sight, I sometimes have to grab their hand or stop them and make them look at their feet, then make them move the way the technique requires. It's not that people are stupid but grappling can be a very confounding thing when you aren't used to it. Another of the reasons for learning wrist grab defenses imho. I have often wondered if a sightless person might actually do better due to their unique (or rather differing) methods of perception. Even when defending where their body and the opponent's body aren't in contact, they may be able to discern things sighted persons would not.

Anyone have experience with that?

 

[oftheherd1]

I taught this "Devil's hand shake" to a group of kids in the street of Brazil and they loved it.

In the Hapkido I studied we had something similar as a wrist grab defense. We reversed our hand to a grab of the opponent's wrist and followed through as you show.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I have found that even with persons with perfect sight, I sometimes have to grab their hand or stop them and make them look at their feet, then make them move the way the technique requires. It's not that people are stupid but grappling can be a very confounding thing when you aren't used to it. Another of the reasons for learning wrist grab defenses imho. I have often wondered if a sightless person might actually do better due to their unique (or rather differing) methods of perception. Even when defending where their body and the opponent's body aren't in contact, they may be able to discern things sighted persons would not.

Anyone have experience with that?

Agreed. Even when people see properly, they sometimes don't actually pay attention to the right thing. And I've often wondered if teaching some moves might not benefit from a blindfold, so people are paying more attention to the feel than what it looks like.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I have often wondered if a sightless person might actually do better due to their unique (or rather differing) methods of perception. Even when defending where their body and the opponent's body aren't in contact, they may be able to discern things sighted persons would not.

And I've often wondered if teaching some moves might not benefit from a blindfold, so people are paying more attention to the feel than what it looks like.

I actually grapple better overall with my eyes closed. Without the visual distraction I have a better feel for my partners balance.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I actually grapple better overall with my eyes closed. Without the visual distraction I have a better feel for my partners balance.

Interesting. I can't say I've done a significant amount of it, to be able to make that judgment. We used to do blindfolded drills at my old school, and I always found those easy, but never actively compared them to the same drill without the blindfold. I'll have to try some out next time I'm down there.

 

[KabutoKouji]

in YMAA I believe anything with the 'Z shape' is called the 'Universal angle' or something

 

[vince1]

At my school we number techniques instead of naming them. As someone who works in IT, I know that a name is a lot easier to remember than a number (i.e. "Skribs PC" is easier than 192.168.1.1). So I'm curious some of the names for the different wristlocks. I can post pictures of the locks I'm discussing later, but hopefully my description will be enough.

1. (I believe this is a "Z-lock"). Opponent's arm is bent in towards their chest, with their hand in a gooseneck pointing towards you. The joints on the wrist and the elbow make a Z-shape with their hand, forearm, and upper arm. From here, you can either pin the forearm and click up on the thumb to cause pain, or you can trap the hand and push down on the wrist to cause pain.
2. (I believe this is a "V-lock"). Opponent's arm is bent out away from their chest. Ideally their elbow would be tucked into their gut, and you twist on the pinky to apply torsion to their wrist. This can be done with your thumbs on the back of the hand pushing the pinky, with your thumbs on their palms so you can pull their hand over, or with one hand on the back of their wrist to trap it and the other hand pushing on the knuckles. Both the wrist and elbow make a V-shape, hence the name (I think).
3. (I believe this one is a "Figure-4 Lock"). In this one, you are usually off to the side of your opponent, facing behind them. If you're attacking their right arm, you'll have your right hand on their wrist, right elbow in their shoulder or bicep, and your left arm looped through their arm and grasping your bicep. You can now push their hand backwards and down, which is real uncomfortable on the elbow and shoulder.
4. (From this point on, I don't even have a guess as to the name). The fourth type of wrist-lock I want to bring up is kind of like a V-Lock in execution and a Figure-4 in location. In this lock, you have their arm curled up next to their head, with their elbow by their ear and their hand curled in near the shoulder. You can either press on the elbow or twist the wrist in, which will shift their weight back and cause them to tip over.
5. The fifth type of lock is more of a throw. It might be lumped in with #2, I'm not entirely sure. This is the type where you grab the back of their hand with your cross arm and twist their hand over. Then you circle around behind them to that side and use the twist of their wrist and pressure on their elbow to take them down.
6. The sixth type is where you use inward pressure on the wrist to straighten the arm and control them. This could be a push or a pull, but in both cases you push in on their hand and pull out on their wrist to lock their elbow, and then push or pull along that line to get them off balance.
7. Similar to #6, where you have an armbar and use pressure on the wrist to fully lock the arm and complete the submission.
8. Locks designed to push the hand backwards. A couple examples are where you trap your opponents hand against you and either twist or pull to bend the wrist or apply pressure to the nerves on the forearm. Another example is when you can get the opponent with is fingers jabbed into his ribs, elbow out (kind of like the "I'm a little teapot" dance) and then push up or back on his fingers to twist his wrist.
9. A lock that gets someone up on their tiptoes. Grab the opponents wrist and then use your bicep into their elbow to lock their elbow straight. This one gets them to give up any semblance of a stance real quick, and you can then push on their elbow to take them down. Alternatively, a similar lock from the other side (straight arm instead of cross arm) where you use your elbow into their tricep.

I have left out a lot of details about how these work, both individually and in-context. I'm not trying to get a better understanding of the technical aspects of these right now. I'm merely looking for help in what they're named.

A friend of mine has just written a book on wrist locks & holds. If you are interested I can give you his contact info.

 

[skribs]

A friend of mine has just written a book on wrist locks & holds. If you are interested I can give you his contact info.

Send me a PM.

Or post where we can get the book if its published.

 

[vince1]

Go to BLURB.CA, the book is called Koryu Goshin Aikijuijitsu.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

IMO, the most important part of the wrist lock is how to change from the

downward force -> horizontal force -> pulling force

 

[Gerry Seymour]

IMO, the most important part of the wrist lock is how to change from the

downward force -> horizontal force -> pulling force

Can you explain what you mean there?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Can you explain what you mean there?

When you apply "eagle claw break with

- downward force, your opponent can raise his elbow to cancel your downward force. You have to change your downward force into horizontal force.
- horizontal force, your opponent can turn his body to cancel your horizontal force. You have to change your downward force into pulling force.

Depending on your opponent's respond, your locking force have to be able to change.